Author Topic: The more I think about it...  (Read 43394 times)

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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:The more I think about it...
« Reply #150 on: October 09, 2007, 12:59:48 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mashiro I just don't understand why.


Let me put it this way...

I've enjoyed realistic violence, partaken in realistic violent acts, laughed at realistic acts of violence which others find horrifying and played realistic violent games without ever thinking twice about it. Looking at me and my track record, you'd never in your life think that violence of ANY kind would even begin to bother me.

But the one place where it does irk me is when it's placed into a context where it doesn't belong.

Aside from the fact that Mario is an icon known far and wide, he, Luigi, Yoshi, DK, etc. are all characters who have endured despite the fact that their games do not feature the kind of realistic violence that many of the angsty teenage types desire in their gaming experiences. They stand as exceptions to the rule, not succumbing to the pressure of the mainstream gaming market which so frequently dictates that games which lack that level of violence aren't "mature" enough. It's not uncommon to see franchises start to turn dark and moody simply because of the perception that it'll help them sell better (ie Bomberman 360, Dak and Jaxter's darkening, Prince of Persia, etc.).

Yet the Mario series endures, proving that it can still outsell both Halos with New Super Mario Bros.

Games which attempt to appeal to all ages are basically the last holdout in a market where insecure male teenagers won't buy a game unless the M sticker is on the box, and Mario and co. have always struck me as one of the bastions of the ideal that games don't need to be violent and gruesome in order to be fun and have wide appeal.

The only time Mario is ever involved in any kind of realistic violence has always been in parodies, and the only reason these parodies are funny is because it's so immensely out of place for Mario. In my eyes, when you take that level of violent interaction and put it in an ACTUAL Nintendo game, it's certainly not entertaining.

I understand this opinion seems outlandish and bizarre to others, but Nintendo's fame is basically built upon the principle that their games are what they are and they wouldn't give their characters a darker makeover in an attempt to sell to a market which craves more and more violence and controversy. I've always respected that about them.

For me, when Snake snaps Mario/Yoshi/DK's neck, even if the character gets up a moment later, it's basically spitting into the face of all Nintendo stands for. To have built an empire on the ideal of mascots which are E for everyone and then release a game where you can violently snap their necks just makes no sense.

I do seriously question if they didn't give Sakurai absolute free-reign with the game. Otherwise, it just feels like Nintendo sold out their mascots (something they're practically legendary for not doing) for the sake of a cheap laugh.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline Adrock

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #151 on: October 09, 2007, 02:59:42 PM »
What continues to confuse me is that your argument is still contradictory. The game takes real life violence and makes them unrealistic and cartoony. It begs to reason that the neck snap still fits into that paradigm. Mario gets up, that's unrealistic. Its context is changed to a non-fatal move. I guess what I, personally, don't understand is why all the violence in the game is ok while this one thing isn't. I get what you're trying to say, but I feel that if you're going to make that point, the entire game, as a whole, is the problem, not that one move.

If Nintendo and the ESRB board are ok with it, this is really your problem. I know you won't, but maybe, if this is so bothersome, you should boycott the game all together.

Offline that Baby guy

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #152 on: October 09, 2007, 03:15:25 PM »
They're practically legendary for not selling out their mascots?  Really?  We covered this.  The three LoZ games for the CDI.  Hotel Mario.  The EA Sports titles with Mario in them.  Mario teaches typing.  Mario is Missing.  Mario's Time Machine.  F-Zero AX and GX.  Soul Calibur II.  Star Fox Adventures.  The entire Donkey Kong Country line.  Yoshi's Island 2 DS.  There's more, I just can't remember all the times Nintendo has allowed another developer, publisher, or temporary dev to take control of a franchise, character, or series.  And, furthermore, what has been done in these games has always been very, very loosely followed by Nintendo.  They didn't even give EA Sports Mario's height, width, or weight, they left it up to EA.  In NBA Street, isn't possible for Mario to get hit.

Look at the Crotch Chop in Mario Strikers.  In the game, you literally electrocute other players and characters.  I was shocked, and so was the rest of the world, about what happened in there.  I've come to terms that Nintendo cares about quality, fun, and authenticity when it comes to games being made with their characters at this point in time, ever since Strikers, too.  That's a big reason why this doesn't upset me.  We've seen Mario do just as bad, and we've seen just as bad done to him.

Wait, you're ok with the Robot Chicken Mario Kart-Vice City parody?  Seriously?  And this isn't alright with you?  Seriously?

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:The more I think about it...
« Reply #153 on: October 09, 2007, 04:07:33 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock What continues to confuse me is that your argument is still contradictory. The game takes real life violence and makes them unrealistic and cartoony. It begs to reason that the neck snap still fits into that paradigm.


That's just it: it's a NECK SNAP. It doesn't matter what happens after it. There shouldn't be a neck snap in a SSB game.

Quote

Mario gets up, that's unrealistic. Its context is changed to a non-fatal move. I guess what I, personally, don't understand is why all the violence in the game is ok while this one thing isn't. I get what you're trying to say, but I feel that if you're going to make that point, the entire game, as a whole, is the problem, not that one move.


Seeing a mascot as old and loved as Mario having his neck snapped offends me, it doesn't matter what happens afterwards.

Quote

If Nintendo and the ESRB board are ok with it, this is really your problem. I know you won't, but maybe, if this is so bothersome, you should boycott the game all together.


I can't let one thing I disagree with ruin the whole game for me. Besides, my local Gamestop is having a midnight launch AND a SSB64 tourney. The prize for the winner? A copy of SSBB.

I could just hunt Snake players with a vengeance, but I'd rather play as Snake myself and never use the move.

I expect the move is actually his down-throw and since it doesn't bounce the character in the air, I doubt it'll be very useful in combat.

Quote

They're practically legendary for not selling out their mascots? Really?


Yeah, show me the game which got into Mario's "darker side", where he became bitter and angstful about having to collect coins and save the same damn princess over and over again and took a job running drugs with the aspiration of becoming the head of a great family some day.

Quote

Wait, you're ok with the Robot Chicken Mario Kart-Vice City parody? Seriously? And this isn't alright with you? Seriously?


When did I say that? I was using it as an example of how people consider it a point of humor. If Mario wasn't known for being an E-rated character, then no one would make parodies like that.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline Adrock

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #154 on: October 09, 2007, 04:38:32 PM »
Quote

That's just it: it's a NECK SNAP. It doesn't matter what happens after it. There shouldn't be a neck snap in a SSB game.

But see, that's my whole point. Link slashing another beloved character is still Link slashing another beloved character. By your own logic, that also should offend you. If it doesn't matter what happens afterwards, then your entire argument about Smash bros. being a lighthearted game with unrealistic, cartoony violence completely falls apart. Link's attack, which, like the neck snap, would be lethal in real world terms and should not be in the game no matter how it's portrayed or what happens afterward. And yet, you keep insisting that every other would-be-fatal-in-real-life move is fair game, but Snake's neck snap attack is not. See how that's contradictory? Based on everything you've said, the entire game, not just that one move, is the problem. You can't separate one thing from everything else in the same category and call foul on it. That's a double standard.  

Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #155 on: October 09, 2007, 05:09:02 PM »
LOL!!!!!! VIDEO GAME DISCUSSION


Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #156 on: October 09, 2007, 05:12:13 PM »
Christ, that was totally unnecessary...
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline vudu

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #157 on: October 09, 2007, 05:13:35 PM »
I said "wow".  Totally didn't need to see that.  Hope no one I know (and like) gets banned.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline NWR_pap64

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #158 on: October 09, 2007, 05:14:59 PM »
I know S_B's opinion on the subject were alienating but COME ON!!!
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Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #159 on: October 09, 2007, 05:15:48 PM »
I'll never be able to play as Dizzy again.

Or will I?

Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:The more I think about it...
« Reply #160 on: October 09, 2007, 05:24:05 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
I said "wow".  Totally didn't need to see that.  Hope no one I know (and like) gets banned.

I have bets on stevey!  Who else is in?
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #161 on: October 09, 2007, 05:26:27 PM »
WHOA-HO!  SMORGAS-BORG
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:The more I think about it...
« Reply #162 on: October 09, 2007, 05:27:48 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
I said "wow".  Totally didn't need to see that.  Hope no one I know (and like) gets banned.

I have bets on stevey!  Who else is in?


My money's on Mashiro!
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Offline Sessha

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RE:The more I think about it...
« Reply #163 on: October 09, 2007, 05:29:09 PM »
I think it's a given but this thread now has locked written all over it
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #164 on: October 09, 2007, 05:30:42 PM »
BELATED SEPTEMBER SURPRISE!
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Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #165 on: October 09, 2007, 05:31:59 PM »
Maybe we can have another nine pages of whinging over a move tomorrow.

"Guys, I just noticed Luigi punches... I don't know about this...!"

Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:The more I think about it...
« Reply #166 on: October 09, 2007, 05:32:05 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
I said "wow".  Totally didn't need to see that.  Hope no one I know (and like) gets banned.

I have bets on stevey!  Who else is in?


My money's on Mashiro!

Haha, I'd say there's a 95% chance that one of us is right!
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline stevey

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #167 on: October 09, 2007, 05:33:41 PM »


ew ew ew ew ew ew ew

Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
I said "wow".  Totally didn't need to see that.  Hope no one I know (and like) gets banned.

I have bets on stevey!  Who else is in?


My money's on Mashiro!

Haha, I'd say there's a 95% chance that one of us is right!


$1 on Infernal Monkey  
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #168 on: October 09, 2007, 05:36:50 PM »
I suspect someone used a dupe account to spam the thread and have it closed so that the discussion wouldn't progress further...

In other words, someone got annoyed at S_B and wanted revenge.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #169 on: October 09, 2007, 05:37:17 PM »
Dang.  Please somebody not only permanban that poster and and duplicate accounts they might have.  But Lock and delete this thread.  

That was totally uncalled for and disturbing.  For Pete sakes we have people of all ages that actually come to this site and use our forums.  


Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE:The more I think about it...
« Reply #170 on: October 09, 2007, 05:38:51 PM »


Edit: $1 won't get you any action from me! I charge $3 at the minimum. $4 for the lot.
 

Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:The more I think about it...
« Reply #171 on: October 09, 2007, 05:39:00 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Dang.  Please somebody not only permanban that poster and and duplicate accounts they might have.  But Lock and delete this thread.  

That was totally uncalled for and disturbing.  For Pete sakes we have people of all ages that actually come to this site and use our forums.


Not to mention many of us check the site during work or school...
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #172 on: October 09, 2007, 05:39:19 PM »
User has been banned, posts have been deleted, please move along.  Sorry that we all had to see that, but there's no such thing as an idiot filter.
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:The more I think about it...
« Reply #173 on: October 09, 2007, 05:39:57 PM »
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Originally posted by: stevey
$1 in Infernal Monkey

You lost a dollar...
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Offline stevey

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RE: The more I think about it...
« Reply #174 on: October 09, 2007, 05:40:06 PM »
Thank god It's gone!
My Demands and Declarations:
nVidia is CRAP!!!
BOYCOTT Digest mode and LEGEND OF OO!

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Wii want WaveBirds

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