Topic: SUPER SMASH BROS BRAWL - The New Megathread

[Ceric]

Items are a lot of new things to track between two-four consoles.  With a fighting game you must keep track of where all the interacting objects are and what are their states.  If its just players then I can send the coordinates of where the character is and what move they are performing.  Then assume on the recieving side that until I hear differently that is what they are doing and where they are at.  Thus mimicking the character on the other sides.  Add in items and you have to tell when an item appears, where the item is, and what its state is.  More information on the wire.  In fact could easily become as much as the characters need to interact, example rapidly shooting a gun while someone else bust open a party ball.

Why I would like to have items and the works I don't think at the current time that they Lowest Common Denominator Speed for broadband is up to it.  I also don't see any tricks they can do to get around some of the hang ups that other games use.  Fighting games are just to unpredictable compared to other styles of games.

On NSMB2 I see Co-op as pretty pointless.  Now Vs maybe.

[Bill Aurion]

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Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
The thing is, 4 player Smash Bros online is impossible.  Hell, most companies have trouble just getting 1v1 fighting games to work online and even then several of these games still suffer from lag.  Trying to get a game like Smash Bros, with more characters, interactive stages and items like Pokeball's and Assist Trophies that can bring in even more characters would create lag so bad it'd be unplayable.

I wonder if it'd help things if they pulled a Mario Strikers and had four players play through two consoles...

[anubis6789]

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Originally posted by: Ceric
I'll take 1v1, selected stages, with no items.  Ok 4 player if there is no items.

While it would be disappointing if SSBB was not online I, and I am being serious, would rather have no online at all then to only be able to play 1v1 with no items (the selected stages is okay because I can understand how they might have a problem with a stage like Poke Floats online). If they cannot at least get the default rules (how the game is setup without messing with the options) online then it just would not be Smash online, and the only people I could see enjoying it for a long period of time would be "pro" players.

WARNING: Rant ahead.

I do not see why "Professional" Smash players think that the rule set that they use, either because they like the rules or because the rules were put into place before they began to play it competitively, is the only true way to play SSB. First off I have never seen a game played competitively where the rules are change so much from default . I would like to say that I have only participated in arcade, console, and portable tournaments, I have never played in a PC based tournament, although I would find it hard to believe that in a BF2 tournament they would turn off all vehicles and weapons except the knife (I do know people who play this way however). Second, randomness is part of the game, no matter what you do, you will never get rid of of the "unfairness" of the randomness because people are still able to play as Luigi, Peach, Ice Climbers, and Mr. G&W; besides until everyone is forced to play as the same character then no match will ever be completely fair.

Contrary to what it may sound like,I am not trying to bash the tournament rules, I just wish that most Professional players would see that the way they play is not the only true competitive way to play, it is only showing one facet of the game. Let me give you an example; would you say that NASCAR or Rally racing is the only true way to professionally auto race? You may say that Rally racing is better because of some arbitrary reason like "because in NASCAR you only have to go left, and that does not show any real skill at all", but you would be wrong for saying that. Rally Racing shows the driver's skill versus the course, while NASCAR show the driver's skill versus other drivers. I can already hear you saying "but what about GT racing? GT racing is clearly the best form auto racing because it shows the driver's skill versus both the other drivers and the course." To that I say that while it may show how good the driver is against both the course and other drivers at the same time, it does not show how well he can deal with each variable individually as NASCAR and Rally can.

I guess what I am I trying to say is that all the rule sets that people tend to use show how well a particular player is at playing with that rule set, not so much how well you play the game as a whole and as such their should be a few rule sets to show how well one plays at each facet of SSB.

[IceCold]

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So who wants to take a bet right now that this game is not online?

The more I think about it, the more I cannot ignore Nintendo's silence on the matter. They are sort of like the little kid who has broken the lamp, but the parents haven't found out yet.

As soon as I heard Reggie talking about WiFi and mentioning Strikers and Mario Kart while excluding Smash, I've been expecting the worst.

[anubis6789]

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Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
The thing is, 4 player Smash Bros online is impossible.  Hell, most companies have trouble just getting 1v1 fighting games to work online and even then several of these games still suffer from lag.  Trying to get a game like Smash Bros, with more characters, interactive stages and items like Pokeball's and Assist Trophies that can bring in even more characters would create lag so bad it'd be unplayable.

I do not think it would be impossible, just really hard. The way I see it if the new Mario Kart can have online Battle mode with the amount of stuff that can go on, then it should not be all that much harder, in fact I think it would be easier, to have 4 player Smash with items online. I mean if they can supposedly have a working version of VF5 on live then SSBB should be no problem, but...

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Originally posted by: IceCold

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So who wants to take a bet right now that this game is not online?

The more I think about it, the more I cannot ignore Nintendo's silence on the matter. They are sort of like the little kid who has broken the lamp, but the parents haven't found out yet.

As soon as I heard Reggie talking about WiFi and mentioning Strikers and Mario Kart while excluding Smash, I've been expecting the worst.

You bring up a good point, SSBB not even being mentioned as online during the conference does not bode well for online Smash, and I am surprised I did not catch that before.

Maybe we should all just assume that SSBB will not be online so we will not be too disappointed if no online turns out to be true, that is my stance now anyway.

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: anubis6789

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Originally posted by: Ceric
I'll take 1v1, selected stages, with no items.  Ok 4 player if there is no items.

While it would be disappointing if SSBB was not online I, and I am being serious, would rather have no online at all then to only be able to play 1v1 with no items (the selected stages is okay because I can understand how they might have a problem with a stage like Poke Floats online). If they cannot at least get the default rules (how the game is setup without messing with the options) online then it just would not be Smash online, and the only people I could see enjoying it for a long period of time would be "pro" players.

WARNING: Rant ahead.

I do not see why "Professional" Smash players think that the rule set that they use, either because they like the rules or because the rules were put into place before they began to play it competitively, is the only true way to play SSB. First off I have never seen a game played competitively where the rules are change so much from default . I would like to say that I have only participated in arcade, console, and portable tournaments, I have never played in a PC based tournament, although I would find it hard to believe that in a BF2 tournament they would turn off all vehicles and weapons except the knife (I do know people who play this way however). Second, randomness is part of the game, no matter what you do, you will never get rid of of the "unfairness" of the randomness because people are still able to play as Luigi, Peach, Ice Climbers, and Mr. G&W; besides until everyone is forced to play as the same character then no match will ever be completely fair.

Contrary to what it may sound like,I am not trying to bash the tournament rules, I just wish that most Professional players would see that the way they play is not the only true competitive way to play, it is only showing one facet of the game. Let me give you an example; would you say that NASCAR or Rally racing is the only true way to professionally auto race? You may say that Rally racing is better because of some arbitrary reason like "because in NASCAR you only have to go left, and that does not show any real skill at all", but you would be wrong for saying that Rally Racing shows the driver's skill versus the course, while NASCAR show the driver's skill versus other drivers. I can already hear you saying "but what about GT racing? GT racing is clearly the best form auto racing because it shows the driver's skill versus both the other drivers and the course." To that I say that while it may show how good the driver is against both the course and other drivers at the same time, it does not show how well he can deal with each variable individually as NASCAR and Rally can.

I guess what I am I trying to say is that all the rule sets that people tend to use show how well a particular player is at playing with that rule set, not so much how well you play the game as a whole and as such their should be a few rule sets to show how well one plays at each facet of SSB.

My best reason to give you as to why "professional" play is considered how it is in Smash is because random =/= skill.

I'm not saying it's the only way to play but in a more "official/professional" setting that's just how it is.

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Second, randomness is part of the game, no matter what you do, you will never get rid of of the "unfairness" of the randomness because people are still able to play as Luigi, Peach, Ice Climbers, and Mr. G&W; besides until everyone is forced to play as the same character then no match will ever be completely fair.

There's a difference in choosing a character that plays different and in having random items fall from the sky. In a professional setting you're typically looking at one players skill vs another. How well they play their character with just well their characters. Not using items. Not getting health back. Etc etc.

Again it isn't the only way to play, of course it isn't. I enjoy 4 player smash with items on just like anyone else. But I also enjoy just plain skill matches. More times than not they are way more fun and far more difficult than a 4 player romp.

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If they cannot at least get the default rules (how the game is setup without messing with the options) online then it just would not be Smash online, and the only people I could see enjoying it for a long period of time would be "pro" players.

Well it would be better than nothing =)  

[stevey]

"As soon as I heard Reggie talking about WiFi and mentioning Strikers and Mario Kart while excluding Smash, I've been expecting the worst."

Probably because it hasn't been full finalized and Reggie didn't want to be ask how many can play at once or are all the stages playable online when he doesn't know himself. Or that info just being saved up for a blog update.

I bet the game going to be at lease 4player online and maybe more. Iwata said it was going a launch game and online and since they gave it all the time they need and miss launch they definitely have online play.  

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: anubis6789
While it would be disappointing if SSBB was not online I, and I am being serious, would rather have no online at all then to only be able to play 1v1 with no items ... and the only people I could see enjoying it for a long period of time would be "pro" players.

...wow

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Originally posted by: anubis6789
I do not see why "Professional" Smash players think that the rule set that they use, either because they like the rules or because the rules were put into place before they began to play it competitively, is the only true way to play SSB.

I love four player Smash Bros with all items turned on. I love one vs. one with no items on Final Destination, aka "pro" settings. I don't see either as the "true" way to play, and the strength of the franchise is the number of options available.

I really have not met very many "Professionals" who are adamant about other methods of play in Smash Bros being wrong. In fact, I find it ironic that you are complaining about this, when you opened up the post by stating you would be happier if there was no online versus allowing a 1 vs. 1 setup.

Really, what's getting people rilled up about this? Is there really a problem if someone enjoys playing a game in a different manner than you if the options allow it?  

[Mashiro]

It should be worth noting that multiple times it has been stated that Brawl was being created with online as a main feature. They REALLY want this game to be online and I have no doubt in my mind that the delay was to make perfectly sure the game could be optimized and perform well in an online setting.

If it wasn't online I would be incredibly shocked. I know there are many technical hurdles but they are gonna make it work.

Edit: Here's the quote from the man himself.

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"My plan is to include Wi-Fi connection compatibility and online functionality. One of the primary reasons Super Smash Bros. Brawl was created was that Nintendo, when taking Wii online, wanted to have Smash Bros. to do that," added Sakurai.

If it's a primary reason for the game being made (for it to be online) I have to assume it will be online in some way. It just has to.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I assume they are just waiting for TGS to drop the SSBB Online Megaton. They gotta save announcements for all of these shows that are too damn close together now.

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
I assume they are just waiting for TGS to drop the SSBB Online Megaton. They gotta save announcements for all of these shows that are too damn close together now.

"We're happy to announce . . . 8 player online for SSBB." MEGATON!

[Bill Aurion]

"Really, what's getting people rilled up about this? Is there really a problem if someone enjoys playing a game in a different manner than you if the options allow it?"

Yes, because I'd rather Ninty focus on meating up the actual game than try to get a crappy, diluted online mode up and working...

[Mario]

I have already accepted there wont be online, and i'm currently working on finding some real human beings to interact with. My options are limited however since there's only about 4 million people in this city. Man this sucks!

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I love four player Smash Bros with all items turned on. I love one vs. one with no items on Final Destination, aka "pro" settings.

I think the issue people have with calling those settings "Pro" is that Pros should be able to deal with items and not have to bend the rules to their liking to be competitive.  

[Mashiro]

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I have already accepted there wont be online, and i'm currently working on finding some real human beings to interact with. My options are limited however since there's only about 4 million people in this city. Man this sucks!

Hiya random person! Do you wanna be my friend and play Super Smash Bros. Brawl?

[Mario]

That's the plan

[NWR_pap64]

I wouldn't be surprised if they are waiting for a media event in order to officially announce online mode. They already said that they have 2 on 2 online mode working. The one thing they haven't been able to do is an online leader board.

So I say don't fret, but at the same time don't get your hopes up.

[LuigiHann]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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I have already accepted there wont be online, and i'm currently working on finding some real human beings to interact with. My options are limited however since there's only about 4 million people in this city. Man this sucks!

Hiya random person! Do you wanna be my friend and play Super Smash Bros. Brawl?

Isn't that basically how the internet works? Real life can't be that different... although I admit I haven't tried it.  

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: LuigiHann

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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I have already accepted there wont be online, and i'm currently working on finding some real human beings to interact with. My options are limited however since there's only about 4 million people in this city. Man this sucks!

Hiya random person! Do you wanna be my friend and play Super Smash Bros. Brawl?

Isn't that basically how the internet works? Real life can't be that different... although I admit I haven't tried it.

Uh if you're just trying to meet people than yeah. I'm saying do people venture forth in search of new friends in real life JUST for the sake of playing a video game? Then when you're tired of that person you find a new person to play the game with? That's a lot of footwork and effort just to get a kick outta a game lol.

[Bill Aurion]

Well having friends sorta eliminates that problem, no?

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Well having friends sorta eliminates that problem, no?

Did you read what Mario said Bill? Lol, I'm merely pointing out it's a lot of footwork to keep finding new people IRL to play a game as opposed to having the ability to just connect to Wifi and have a game find a random person(s) for you to battle.

[Bill Aurion]

Mario was making fun of the fact that people think a game needs to be online for them to play other people, when they can just actually, you know, go out and meet people...

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Mario was making fun of the fact that people think a game needs to be online for them to play other people, when they can just actually, you know, go out and meet people...

Yeah because clearly everyone lives in a city with 4 million people AMIRIGHT?

Come on. There's a REASON why games are online.

Besides, I'm not saying being social and having friends and stuff don't make games like Brawl fun. Of course it does. Heck back when Melee first came out I had parties with co-workers where we all just got together and played melee. It was great fun =) but online adds the ability to keep that feeling of new challenge in the game fresh. After a while playing the same people over and over again just gets boring. And like I said, not everyone is in a central location with lots of people.

Edit: To add to this, online gives the ability to play with friends who may not be close to you anymore. For example, my cousin is going to college soon. He and I have great fun playing Melee and we can't wait for Brawl. It will be nice to be able to play with him online as opposed to having to wait for a holiday get together to play.

Again being social and having RL friends isn't bad but that doesn't replace what an online feature in a game can bring.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Mario was making fun of the fact that people think a game needs to be online for them to play other people, when they can just actually, you know, go out and meet people...

Yeah because clearly everyone lives in a city with 4 million people AMIRIGHT?

Come on. There's a REASON why games are online.

Besides, I'm not saying being social and having friends and stuff don't make games like Brawl fun. Of course it does. Heck back when Melee first came out I had parties with co-workers where we all just got together and played melee. It was great fun =) but online adds the ability to keep that feeling of new challenge in the game fresh. After a while playing the same people over and over again just gets boring. And like I said, not everyone is in a central location with lots of people.

Like me, I live out in the middle of nowhere. Heck just a year ago we finally got DSL in our area!

[Bill Aurion]

"Come on. There's a REASON why games are online."

So NEETs can play against people without having anyone complain about their smell?

[Mashiro]

=P screw you Bill lol. (what's NEETs?)