Author Topic: No More Heroes for Wii!!!!  (Read 200112 times)

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #150 on: March 13, 2007, 10:22:26 AM »
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Originally posted by: Arbok
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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I've watched the trailer on various sites, including IGN which usually does a fair job of providing quality trailers. Why does it seem consistent accross the board (at least from what I've seen).


Because they are all being given the same source? The bulk of video content on sites is provided by the external firms themselves, so chances are whoever created the trailer file originally didn't do a good job with the encoding process, if the problem is seen across the board.


Isn't that alot of conjecture though? Why can't there be the possibility that the original trailer was poorly put together? Besides like I said some parts seem to run fine, it is just the wide open enviroments that appear to run poorly (especially the brief driving scene).
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Offline Ceric

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #151 on: March 13, 2007, 10:26:37 AM »
To cut this short we'll just have to wait until a real person can report back to us how it is.
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Offline odifiend

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #152 on: March 13, 2007, 10:28:25 AM »
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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
The only complaints I've read about P.N.03 is that it's not Devil May Cry.


The only good thing to come out of PN 03 was the idea behind The Mercernaries in RE4.  Accroding to Phoenix's complaints, it is a pass.  Enemies are very much recycled and even though it is a solid game, it is very much play a play to get through it game.  With less novel showdowns and a much more boring and whack story.
DMC3 was the only one I played and I played for about 3 minutes at a friend's house.

Killer7 without getting into spoilers was very different from anything I have ever played.  The pre-existing rivals and the power rangers were worth playing the game.  I'm excited for No More Heroes because they are using the same art style but are seemingly using a different control style (the one thing about the game I didn't really care for).  That makes for a lot of deserved hype.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #153 on: March 13, 2007, 10:30:25 AM »
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Originally posted by: Ceric
To cut this short we'll just have to wait until a real person can report back to us how it is.


That I can agree with, hopefully the problems I did see in the trailer are not really there in the final product (or near final). I wonder, when exactly someone will get a hands on chance with the game, usually these more independently developed games don't get tried out until close to the release date.
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Offline Smoke39

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #154 on: March 13, 2007, 12:42:02 PM »
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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
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Originally posted by: Smoke39
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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Let's say the trailer is poorly encoded, shouldn't that in itself be something to fear about the budgeting and quality control?

Because it's totally unreasonable to believe that game sites might compress videos on their own for the sake of conserving bandwidth, right?

I got no problem with you juding the trailer, but to conjecture that its encoding is an indication of a low budget is going a bit too far.


I've watched the trailer on various sites, including IGN which usually does a fair job of providing quality trailers. So why does it seem consistent accross the board (at least from what I've seen)? In fact some of the scenes look smooth (Mainly what appears to be cinematic scenes and in door ones), the framerate problem seems to crop up during the wide open areas such as the beach and when you are riding the motorcycle esque thing.

I wasn't arguing about whether the game does or does not have a good, consistent framerate, nor if it was reasonable to judge it by the trailer.  I was merely disputing your implication that distributing a suboptimally encoded video necessarily implies a low budget or poor quality control regarding the actual game itself.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #155 on: March 13, 2007, 12:48:41 PM »
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Originally posted by: Smoke39
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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
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Originally posted by: Smoke39
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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Let's say the trailer is poorly encoded, shouldn't that in itself be something to fear about the budgeting and quality control?

Because it's totally unreasonable to believe that game sites might compress videos on their own for the sake of conserving bandwidth, right?

I got no problem with you juding the trailer, but to conjecture that its encoding is an indication of a low budget is going a bit too far.


I've watched the trailer on various sites, including IGN which usually does a fair job of providing quality trailers. So why does it seem consistent accross the board (at least from what I've seen)? In fact some of the scenes look smooth (Mainly what appears to be cinematic scenes and in door ones), the framerate problem seems to crop up during the wide open areas such as the beach and when you are riding the motorcycle esque thing.

I wasn't arguing about whether the game does or does not have a good, consistent framerate, nor if it was reasonable to judge it by the trailer.  I was merely disputing your implication that distributing a suboptimally encoded video necessarily implies a low budget or poor quality control regarding the actual game itself.


Well perhaps that was a big jump, but I am a bit concerned about if they have the funding to realize what they want. A GTA esque enviroment can't be cheap to put together in a cohesive and optimized package!
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Offline Smoke39

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #156 on: March 13, 2007, 01:01:51 PM »
I'm personally envisioning more of a glorified hub (think Super Mario 64 only with a city instead of a castle) rather than something on the scale of GTA, but we'll see.  Has Suda said much about how that aspect will work?
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #157 on: March 13, 2007, 04:31:51 PM »
I think Suda has potential has a director, but the truth is, if his games were THAT good, people wouldn't defend them like they do. If someone mocked SMB, would anyone care? SMB and Miyamoto don't need ME to defend them. The games speak for themselves.

The gameplay in K7 was a neat concept, but it makes for a pretty repetitive experience. The story is excellent, though, and I look forward to NMH because it looks as though we'll see a great deal more GAMEPLAY along with the stellar story and voice acting that Suda tends to bring to the table.

This forum has a ridiculous amount of zealotry. I've had enough of people becoming personally offended when someone dislikes a game or series that they enjoy, and K7 seems to top the list in the godforsaken "games I must defend from any and all negativity" category.

Let it go. Suda is not going to suddenly break his back because someone didn't step up and defend his games, and it certainly isn't necessary to do so via flaming fellow forum members.
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Offline 18 Days

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #158 on: March 13, 2007, 04:43:31 PM »
Wot are you talking about Smash Brother? I mean it's not like Killer 7 was as good as Donkey Kong Jungle Beat.
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #159 on: March 13, 2007, 04:44:29 PM »
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I've had enough of people becoming personally offended when someone dislikes a game or series that they enjoy, and K7 seems to top the list in the godforsaken "games I must defend from any and all negativity" category.

What?  Personally offended?  I'm not seeing any of that here, I'm seeing people defending a game for the strengths they enjoy...Come back when people start posting with a crapload of angry emoticons and exclamation points!
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Offline 18 Days

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #160 on: March 13, 2007, 04:46:20 PM »
Lol sure, whatever Bill.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #161 on: March 13, 2007, 04:47:30 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I've had enough of people becoming personally offended when someone dislikes a game or series that they enjoy, and K7 seems to top the list in the godforsaken "games I must defend from any and all negativity" category.

What?  Personally offended?  I'm not seeing any of that here, I'm seeing people defending a game for the strengths they enjoy...Come back when people start posting with a crapload of angry emoticons and exclamation points!


I think he is talking about when Golden and someone else kept throwing jabs at each other over the game earlier in the thread.

I've honestly seen that happen but backwards (ie, haters of a game will flame those that love it).
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #162 on: March 13, 2007, 04:47:39 PM »
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Originally posted by: 18 Days
Lol sure, whatever Bill.

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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #163 on: March 13, 2007, 06:39:51 PM »
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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion What?  Personally offended?  I'm not seeing any of that here, I'm seeing people defending a game for the strengths they enjoy...Come back when people start posting with a crapload of angry emoticons and exclamation points!


You know you've thrown down "fightin' words" in a situation like this when someone reacts to your comments through insult, and a CONSISTENT trigger on these forums is and always has been Suda's games.

I think there's something else going on here, beyond the simple "strengths they enjoy". I think what we're seeing is something I shall call "Hermit Crabbing".

This phenomenon occurs when someone discovers something which they are the minority in enjoying, much like a hermit crab finds a small empty shell to dwell in. The hermit crab will viciously defend the opening of his/her new home (aka the franchise in question). The power of being a hermit crab stems from the fact that the shell opening is small and therefore easy to defend. In this case, the opening of the shell is synonymous with the lack knowledge other people possess about a given franchise; the crab is quick to capitalize on this lack of knowledge in their arguments, easily defending the opening of the shell from attackers.

However, as the franchise becomes more popular, their like for it fades simply because more people like it and it has become "mainstream". In essence, the shell expands to the point where the hermit crab can no longer feel snug within the niche and must seek another "home" to defend.

Naruto is an excellent example of this. I knew of many people who discovered Naruto back before it made its way outside of Japan and they loved the series, but as it spread to the US and was widely embraced by the anime community, they felt it had "sold out" and was too "mainstream" and they didn't like it anymore, despite the fact that the series itself had not changed, only the amount of people who patronized it.

More than anyone, I can understand the notion of not wanting to be lumped in with a larger group of people when it comes to your likes and opinions, but hermit crabbing finds its roots in the audience member enjoying their feeling of seclusion in their tastes. When the franchise was liked by few, their decision to like it was, in their minds, an act of rebellion, setting them apart from the rest of the herd. In liking Naruto, these people felt as though it made them unique, and when the uniqueness was gone, their ability to enjoy the franchise went with it.

But they had loved Naruto and would defend it from even the slightest negative comment with a level of vehemence typically exhibited by someone when you openly mock their mother.

I see the same stir to action when someone says anything negative about a Suda title. It's easy to spot hermit crabbing because even the very best arguments put forth to defend the franchise pang of insult or some degree of sarcastic anger which will only ever arise when someone has struck a nerve. Grasshopper makes for a great hermit crabbing situation because the games have been met with such a critical backlash that liking them practically IS an act of rebellion.

But I guarantee this: if NMH becomes immensely popular, sells over a million copies and Suda's later projects begin succeeding as a result, we'll start hearing comments about how Suda "sold out" and "lost his touch"(not necessarily from NWR, but all over the internet).

I know hermit crabbing is practically unintentional, but when your arguments degrade into personal insult, it should be noted by the person doing the hermit crabbing that they're doing it.

Yes, I too need to be watched for hermit crabbing. We all do, because, for the past 3-5 years, we were all very likely hermit crabbing for Nintendo.  
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #164 on: March 13, 2007, 06:47:54 PM »
You know maybe Grasshopper Studios can create a game based on a hermit crab that is resurrected, except it doesn't know its resurrected while protecting its shell from other hermit crabs who want to be one with it!
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Offline Kairon

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #165 on: March 13, 2007, 06:48:30 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I've had enough of people becoming personally offended when someone dislikes a game or series that they enjoy, and K7 seems to top the list in the godforsaken "games I must defend from any and all negativity" category.

What?  Personally offended?  I'm not seeing any of that here, I'm seeing people defending a game for the strengths they enjoy...Come back when people start posting with a crapload of angry emoticons and exclamation points!


I think he is talking about when Golden and someone else kept throwing jabs at each other over the game earlier in the thread.

I've honestly seen that happen but backwards (ie, haters of a game will flame those that love it).


What?!?! That was all in good fun!

I mean... c'mon... "Awesome isn't for everyone?" That's the sort of thing you'd hear on NeoGAF!!!

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #166 on: March 13, 2007, 06:57:51 PM »
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Originally posted by: Kairon
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I've had enough of people becoming personally offended when someone dislikes a game or series that they enjoy, and K7 seems to top the list in the godforsaken "games I must defend from any and all negativity" category.

What?  Personally offended?  I'm not seeing any of that here, I'm seeing people defending a game for the strengths they enjoy...Come back when people start posting with a crapload of angry emoticons and exclamation points!


I think he is talking about when Golden and someone else kept throwing jabs at each other over the game earlier in the thread.

I've honestly seen that happen but backwards (ie, haters of a game will flame those that love it).


What?!?! That was all in good fun!

I mean... c'mon... "Awesome isn't for everyone?" That's the sort of thing you'd hear on NeoGAF!!!

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com


But it is so true about Elebits though, its awesomeness is huge that it rises well above some people's comprehension!
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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #167 on: March 13, 2007, 08:31:26 PM »
Yeah, now that you mention it Smash Brother, way too many people on here seem to like Killer 7.
Looks like I'll have to find something even more obscure to favor
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #168 on: March 13, 2007, 08:54:33 PM »
Naruto is an excellent example of this. I knew of many people who discovered Naruto back before it made its way outside of Japan and they loved the series, but as it spread to the US and was widely embraced by the anime community, they felt it had "sold out" and was too "mainstream" and they didn't like it anymore, despite the fact that the series itself had not changed, only the amount of people who patronized it.

Well, that and the fact that it started into a huge filler (I've heard that went on for over 100 episodes) in Japan at about the time it got licensed in the US. Same for Bleach, BTW.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #169 on: March 13, 2007, 09:02:58 PM »
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Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Yeah, now that you mention it Smash Brother, way too many people on here seem to like Killer 7.
Looks like I'll have to find something even more obscure to favor


All you need to do is look at the sales of the game and you can see there are not that many copies in the hands of consumers, not to mention NWR does not really represent the gaming public (which is both a blessing and a curse). On gamefaqs I've checked out the Killer 7 boards and it is pretty dead there.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #170 on: March 14, 2007, 02:39:57 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Yeah, now that you mention it Smash Brother, way too many people on here seem to like Killer 7.
Looks like I'll have to find something even more obscure to favor


The whole point is that you SHOULDN'T CARE how many other people enjoy the game, so long as you enjoy it.

There's nothing wrong with liking something and standing up for it. That's not hermit crabbing. You're only hermit crabbing when you cannot allow any criticism of the franchise/developer to pass and resort to insulting the other party for questioning it.

Hermit crabbing is the direct result of people not understanding that they do not need to "defend" their favorite things in life. Golden can drag K7 through the mud and it will have no affect on me or anyone else who likes it. Same goes for SR: she all but completely trashed the game in the review thread but you'll note that I never once insulted her personally in response.

Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k Well, that and the fact that it started into a huge filler (I've heard that went on for over 100 episodes) in Japan at about the time it got licensed in the US. Same for Bleach, BTW.


If you want another example: Pokemon. Back in the day (1996-8ish) when it was still a Japanese only franchise, I had friends who downloaded translated roms of the game and loved it, but once it exploded here in the US, they drive to play vanished.

Hermit crabbing happens with music more often than gaming: people find a small band and stick with it, and if it becomes popular, they'll dump it. The phrase "I liked them back before they sold out." probably originated from this very situation.
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #171 on: March 14, 2007, 02:47:02 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Quote

Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Yeah, now that you mention it Smash Brother, way too many people on here seem to like Killer 7.
Looks like I'll have to find something even more obscure to favor

All you need to do is look at the sales of the game and you can see there are not that many copies in the hands of consumers, not to mention NWR does not really represent the gaming public (which is both a blessing and a curse). On gamefaqs I've checked out the Killer 7 boards and it is pretty dead there.

You DO realize he was being sarcastic, right?  I guess not... =3
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #172 on: March 14, 2007, 02:59:39 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
You DO realize he was being sarcastic, right?  I guess not... =3


I was going to snap at him but I opted for the more civilized approach.
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Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #173 on: March 14, 2007, 03:47:22 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
However, as the franchise becomes more popular, their like for it fades simply because more people like it and it has become "mainstream". In essence, the shell expands to the point where the hermit crab can no longer feel snug within the niche and must seek another "home" to defend.


So in your world, hermit crabs don't outgrow their shells; their shells outgrow them?  Sorry, but it just seems like a pretty big flaw in the metaphor.  You can do better.

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:No More Heroes for Wii!!!! ANOTHER UPDATED 12/3/06
« Reply #174 on: March 14, 2007, 03:55:03 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: PartyBear So in your world, hermit crabs don't outgrow their shells; their shells outgrow them?  Sorry, but it just seems like a pretty big flaw in the metaphor.  You can do better.


There are no perfect metaphors, but there's too much scuttling, pinching and hiding being done for anything else I can think of to work.
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