Topic: Official Virtual Console Mondays Thread

[capamerica]

Tennis (NES®, 1-2 players)
Space Harrier II™ (Sega Genesis, 1 player)
Military Madness™ (TurboGrafx16, 1-2 players)

[JonLeung]

Quote
Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
By having per-game configurations, the controls will be much better in the end. For example, if there was a rigid one-to-one mapping for every game, we would be stuck with using the second analog stick for C-buttons in the N64 Zelda games (and we all know how much people hate that here). With specialized configurations, those buttons could be mapped to y/x/a and then do some repositioning of other buttons to make things fit. Heck, if they wanted to they could go back in and modify the games so buttons do different things in different situations (e.g., you still use the analog stick to select the Ocarina, but you can use the face buttons to play it).

They could've taken a cue from MAME and made customizeable "universal/general" control schemes (though here it should be per console), and then also allowed for customizeable specific controls per game.  Then when you get to a new game you have a pretty good idea of how the buttons are mapped, but in the odd case where you don't like it, you can change it just for that game.

Nintendo is probably the most ripped-off when it comes to emulation, but they could've and should've looked more closely at a number of popular emulators to see what features they have and how they did them...after all, most of the best emulators use unmodified ROM code which Nintendo (and Sega, NEC/Hudson, etc.) should have access to...

Now, the Mortal Kombat issue is a can of worms I already opened months ago, and a case where there could be modified game code, or new version of an old game that would be worth it.  If they can't get the arcade game, they should have the Super NES one (better controls and animation) with whatever the Genesis had (blood and gore) for the "true" console version that never existed.

Of course, next thing you know Lucas will edit the Super Star Wars' Sarlaac (or is it Sarlacc?) pit monster boss to resemble what it looks like in the 20th anniversary Special Edition of The Return Of The Jedi.  "Can of worms", indeed.

I spent my spring breaks on RPGs...a week was good for that.  Not arcade-style games like TMNT IV that can be finished in one sitting.  Still, that's good too.  TMNT games back then were awesome.

[NWR_DrewMG]

Nintendo needs to knock it off with all these sports games.  Tennis... Soccer... Hockey.   Come on.  No one wants these.  Tecmo Bowl, maybe.  Make with the real classics!

[Ceric]

SNES RPGs should be once a month.  In fact there are enough Genres that you could get a puzzle, RPG, Action, and Sport once a month consistently for quiet a while.  Of course there will always be exceptions there has to be but that would be a good starting point.  I like to see TMNT 2 and 1 actually.

[Majora]

Hey guys! There has been plenty of complaints about the VC and I don't think people should take to much of a negative approch. However, I don't think that it should be considered a bonus, or an extra though, and I don't think people should just be happy with "what they get" as we are paying a decent amount of money to buy the games and the Wii console itself and want the service to be provided to satisfy.

But I think Nintendo are handling this appropriately and I, personally, am satified with what is currently on offer and the rate that the games are being released. I was a Sega kid and owned a Mega Drive (Genesis) and didn't own a SNES (but did buy the SNES and the gems of the console later) and really look forward to playing the games I owned and loved on the Mega Drive, and also the SNES games that I never got to play and the ones that I loved so dearly!!

It's fun to be anticipating so intensely the release of such old games and revisiting the games of old brings back many memories. Whilst I am very happy personally, I do understand the complaints of some.

Bring on the SNES Final Fantasys!! :-)  

[JonLeung]

That's another can of worms...will they be II/III like in the unmodified game code or will it be IV/VI as they should be, especially now that North America has seen the real II and III?  There's going to be confusion either way, but preferably it should be correct and be IV and VI.  And then, logically, people will be demanding Final Fantasy V.

And of course, with Final Fantasy IV/V/VI Advance, it may be a while before we see the Super NES Final Fantasies.

[segagamer12]

OK obviously all the haters who say the SNES arcade ports played better are totaly friggin CLUELESS when it comes to Genesis.

Did anyof you even know that Sega madea 6 Botton ARCADE PAD thatw as actualy more popular than the standar 3 botton pad!??!?!?! seriously SNES SUCKED when it came to controlling fighitng games because of the shoulder bottons, Genesis had that right.

BUT we dont have Genny pads for VC so it would make sense to use SNES versions int hat respect.


Back to MK and SF.  IF they went with the Genesisi versions they would have a more arcade faithful feel and still have the 6 botton option as they were all programed with it in mind. YOu dont ever have to hit start for anything in those games on a 6 botton pad which Classic COntroller can emulate quite faihtfully.


I KNOW SNES had more colors and SF and MK had MORE sounds, THATS IT, graphics were identical on both systems, not counting tiny little objects in the BG missing on 1 versions but not the other. The game engine actually ran smother and faster on Genesis, especiialy for SF2 Special Champion Edition, they closest thing to actualy Hyper Figfhting which SANES couldnt do, SNES best SF2 was Super Sf2 Turbo, which THAT I would prefer on SNES, but SF2 Champion Edition or Hyper Fighting Genesis HANDS DOWN.


(yeah for Nintendo bringing back old arguments from the past now VC TRUELY is nastalgic!)


The thing with SF is Capcom HAS relesed several arcade perfect ports on latter systems, BUT Midway has NEVER released the true Mk arcade without hiding it away in some other game to unlock.


VIrtua Fighter and Virtua Racing are two other arcade games genesis got CRAPPY ports of I hope DONT get released.

I wish theyc ould get Sega CD going, it had some arcade faithful ports, although a little slow due to small cache.




As for RPGs thasta tought one , genesis had some greats too that will likely come first, followed by the SNES ones latter, again RPGS are PERFECT one Sega CD so thats one more reason to bug them to include it latter on.
 

[Ian Sane]

"That's another can of worms...will they be II/III like in the unmodified game code or will it be IV/VI as they should be, especially now that North America has seen the real II and III? There's going to be confusion either way, but preferably it should be correct and be IV and VI. And then, logically, people will be demanding Final Fantasy V."

If we get them it'll probably be II and III since that's what's easiest to do.  I'd like the option.  I should be able to buy the straight SNES port for one price and then for a slightly higher price I can buy the definitive one that has the newer translation.

And Mortal Kombat sucks for all home versions.  I really wouldn't want either.  I was disappointed at the time those games were released.  Thankfully MKII turned out fantastic on the SNES.  The only real problem is the graphics aren't as good.  I even prefer the SNES sound for that game.  Playing MKII on Midway Arcade Treasures 2 shows that the sound originally was designed for a noisy arcade because it's really loud and over-the-top and, well, just plain sucks when it's the only game playing in the room.  The SNES version has a more subtle soundtrack.

Though all home ports of all the 2D Mortal Kombat's are weak on options.  They don't even have Versus mode.  What the hell?

[segagamer12]

MK 2 for Genesis had the BEST options around, you had to enter a code to get them but you had soak test, you coudl turn fatalities, friendships or babalities on so that the computer would ALWAYS do that move. You could get unlimted contines, start anywhere you wanted on the board, it was what SAved the game from sucking too much. That and the super cool but really secret fergality. that still makes me laugh to this day.

I might have to look it up I could be rememebring it wrong but I think the code was B D B F B D F B B F F


(B=Back D= Down F= Forward)


I know it was changed for the 32X versions, still better than Genesis but barely on par with SNES.

So I dont know if I am rememebering the Gensiss code or 32X code.


MK2 in Arcade T2 is what sold me the game and why I preordered it the day I heard of it. It was better thanarcade uz I got in on bigger screan and in souround sound so was VERY loud, Ian is rigth its made to be played Loud.




rememebr Play It Loud ad campaign?  I tool it litteraly.

[Spak-Spang]

I actually preferred the SNES pad to fighting games with the Shoulder buttons.  What made the Shoulder buttons worked was that my thumb was able to easily move about the 4 face buttons to quickly attack as needed...and then I new the Shoulder buttons were for my more powerful attacks.  Logically it just seemed to work for me better than the 6 button Genesis pad or even the arcade units.

[segagamer12]

I guess for certain games, but I had a hard tiem with SF games on SNES. Mk 3 was fine cuz it allowed the Run and Block bottons to be sperate from the action bottons.


Getting off the Mk SF rant. whew that was hard to do.







Ok I have a technical question regarding VC, are the emulators hardwired into the system or are the part of the BIOS or Firmaware or whatever? Is it possible they could update the emulators at a  latter time to accomodate arcades or other game systems? Theoretically Neo Geo and Sega Cd are DO ABLE already with proper programing, but Nintendo might now be smart enough to figure out how to do that.


So the real question is it even POSSIBLE to get updates or is what we have now what we have for the life of the Wii?


Early 80s arcade ports for SNES or Genesis will be fine if 3rd parties ever jump on board, Midway and Atari had arcade compliations that would totaly ROCK IMO if they get VC releses. Either SNES or Genesis wouldnt matter. Also Tengen (Atari) had some pretty good arcade ports for Genesis (Nintendo hated Tenegn and fought them tooth and nail) SO has Midway agreed to Support VC? They own the rights to Atari arcades anyways.



I really hope they can get CD support at the very least out of TG and Sega cuz that increases the selection and improves quality all in 1 shot. Well for the games that the devs knew what they were doing anyways.


I know Sonic CD is a blotch on Segs record so they might now want it on VC plus its on Gems anywyas and we had to FIGHT them for yers to get it that far.


I wonder once Opera is working if you can get PC emulators to work on it and just load yuor Sega CD disks that would be cool.

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
Did anyof you even know that Sega madea 6 Botton ARCADE PAD thatw as actualy more popular than the standar 3 botton pad!??!?!?!

I think the term you are looking for is "better", not "more popular", unless you actually believe more people owned the 6 button pad over the standard three one that was first used with the system.

Speaking from a Genesis owner during the height of its popularity, I knew not one person who owned anything other than the standard controller for it.

[The Omen]

Quote
Did anyof you even know that Sega madea 6 Botton ARCADE PAD thatw as actualy more popular than the standar 3 botton pad!??!?!?! seriously SNES SUCKED when it came to controlling fighitng games because of the shoulder bottons, Genesis had that right.

Do you realize they made it because they hadto?  The Snes had no such need, and from what I recall it looked better as well.

[JonLeung]

Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
Did anyof you even know that Sega madea 6 Botton ARCADE PAD thatw as actualy more popular than the standar 3 botton pad!??!?!?! seriously SNES SUCKED when it came to controlling fighitng games because of the shoulder bottons, Genesis had that right.

As I recall the six-button controller came fairly late in the game, and the Genesis owners I knew had no need for one.  I really don't think it was more popular, and it couldn't've been if you felt you had to remind us.  And even if it was better than the Super NES one, it certainly came too late.

Unfortunately I have to disagree with you about Genesis vs. Super NES RPGs.  There should be no question that the Super NES had more, and Square was certainly churning out great ones at the time. The Phantasy Star games and...what's that other one, Shining Soul?  Those are Genesis RPGs I've meant to play but even if I could get into them, is that it?  What am I missing that could possibly compete with the Super NES RPGs?  That may be my opinion but I don't think the Genesis was an RPG haven.

(And I've been anal about spelling and whatnot twice already today, but man...do you even read your messages before you post them?  it almost sounds like you're letting your emotions get the better of you and you'd rather get your response out there without a thought of making it legible.)

[The Omen]

Quote
Unfortunately I have to disagree with you about Genesis vs. Super NES RPGs. There should be no question that the Super NES had more, and Square was certainly churning out great ones at the time. The Phantasy Star games and...what's that other one, Shining Soul? Those are Genesis RPGs I've meant to play but even if I could get into them, is that it? What am I missing that could possibly compete with the Super NES RPGs? That may be my opinion but I don't think the Genesis was an RPG haven.

True.  The Snes is remembered for the RPG selection.  If you count strategy games like the Romance of the Three Kingdoms or Uncharted Waters, the list is around 100 strong.  There's about 50 straight up rpgs that I counted.

[Ian Sane]

"The Phantasy Star games and...what's that other one, Shining Soul? Those are Genesis RPGs I've meant to play but even if I could get into them, is that it? What am I missing that could possibly compete with the Super NES RPGs? That may be my opinion but I don't think the Genesis was an RPG haven."

Shining Force.  Shining Soul are GBA games that really don't play anything like Shining Force.  Shining Force is basically the Sega version of Fire Emblem and was the first strategy RPG released in North America.  Shining Force II is awesome.  It's worth a good $30.  There's also Shining in the Darkness which is a first person RPG and is part of the same franchise.  The Shining games were made by Camelot.

I'd say the SNES still has a clear RPG advantage but the Genesis had some good stuff too.  Back then Sega was really good about matching competing genre games.  No Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy?  Fine.  We'll make our own RPG in Phantasy Star.  No Final Fight?  Fine.  We'll make our own beat-em-up in Streets of Rage.  Sega made a serious effort to fill in the holes.  Nintendo really could have done a way better job of doing that on the N64 and Cube.  The Sega Genesis is pretty much the base model to follow for a console succeeding despite the competition having most of the third party support.  If no one else can fill in a genre hole then do it yourself.

[JonLeung]

I wouldn't count those crazy KOEI games (aren't they more like simulator games than RPGs?) but even if there were a few, games like Super Mario RPG: Legend Of The Seven Stars, Chrono Trigger, Secret Of Mana, Final Fantasy IV and Final Fantasy VI are still among the best RPGs even today.  And there were several non-Square games or less common ones (7th Saga, Arcana, Breath Of Fire & Breath Of Fire II, Illusion Of Gaia, Lufia & Lufia II, Paladin's Quest, Robotrek, Secret Of Evermore, Shadowrun, Soul Blazer, Twisted Tales Of Spike McFang) which were a lot of fun, at least IMO.  But then again even I liked Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest and played it several times and own it for some reason.  >_>  (I don't count The Legend Of Zelda: A Link To The Past as an RPG but it doesn't affect the list much either way for comparison's sake to the Genesis library.)

The Genesis did have more arcade-style games, but I chalk this up to Sega themselves being rather arcadey.  Some games like Jurassic Park looked more exciting in the Genesis version than the Super NES version, or at least maybe because of the commercials.  Commercials for Genesis games were often more interesting, though Nintendo got a little better when they kicked off the Play It Loud! campaign.  

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
The Genesis did have more arcade-style games, but I chalk this up to Sega themselves being rather arcadey.  Some games like Jurassic Park looked more exciting in the Genesis version than the Super NES version, or at least maybe because of the commercials.  Commercials for Genesis games were often more interesting, though Nintendo got a little better when they kicked off the Play It Loud! campaign.

Yep, the Genesis was known for its better graphics during most of the 16-bit era. They also had much better sound (just compare Maxiumum Carange for the two and you will see that the Genesis one is light years better in this regard), although that has never been much of a concern with the consoles wars. Virgin's Aladdin looked much better than Capcom's, as another example, although clearly Capcom's was the more fun of the two.

That's also why Donkey Kong Country killed the Genesis, as suddenly the best looking game around was on the SNES. That's also why, IMO, the Genesis doesn't hold up nearly as well today as the SNES games, as most of their allure was graphics which are now so dated that it doesn't really matter.

[The Omen]

Quote
(7th Saga, Arcana, Breath Of Fire & Breath Of Fire II, Illusion Of Gaia, Lufia & Lufia II, Paladin's Quest, Robotrek, Secret Of Evermore, Shadowrun, Soul Blazer, Twisted Tales Of Spike McFang)

Shadowrun is incredible.  Were it not for the slow down and screen flicker(remember that?) during the last third, it would be the best game I ever played.

But all of those games listed are great too.  

How about...
Lagoon
Y's
Ultima
Wizardry

The list is endless.

[NeoThunder]

I'd like to know why it shows Mario64 as being "new" along with the games that came out this monday

[Ian Sane]

"Yep, the Genesis was known for its better graphics during most of the 16-bit era. They also had much better sound (just compare Maxiumum Carange for the two and you will see that the Genesis one is light years better in this regard), although that has never been much of a concern with the consoles wars."

What Genesis were YOU playing?  The Genesis was usually known for having worse graphics and sound than the SNES.  The easy proof of this is comparing practically every game released on both consoles.  Check out Madden '94 for a night and day difference and Madden was always known more as Genesis game.  In terms of hardware the Genesis' advantage over the SNES was always speed.  The SNES pretty much killed it in all other categories, which makes sense considering it came out a few years later.

I honestly couldn't name anyone who back in the day thought the Genesis had better graphics and sound, not even Genesis fans.  It was always all Blast Processing this and that when they were bragging.  They did brag back when the main competitor was the NES though.

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I honestly couldn't name anyone who back in the day thought the Genesis had better graphics and sound, not even Genesis fans.  It was always all Blast Processing this and that when they were bragging.  They did brag back when the main competitor was the NES though.

Researching the sound, it seems my understanding was very flawed. Games like Maximum Carnage sounded umpteen times better on the Genesis, with the soundtrack done by Green JellĂż, but these appear to be exceptions while the hardware itself was vastly in favor of the SNES in the sound department.

For graphics, likewise, the SNES had much better hardware for this. However, in terms of results, I think many did favor the Genesis early on in this department with things like the Sonic series versus Super Mario World, and movie franchises that looked much better on the Genesis that were developed from the ground up (JP, Aladdin, etc). By the time games like DKC and Yoshi's Island started coming, though, it was quite clear that the Genesis just wasn't up to snuff in this respect. With this shift kind of happening at the same time the Genesis changed their packaging design to "red".

[IceCold]

Quote
Originally posted by: Majora
Hey guys! There has been plenty of complaints about the VC and I don't think people should take to much of a negative approch. However, I don't think that it should be considered a bonus, or an extra though, and I don't think people should just be happy with "what they get" as we are paying a decent amount of money to buy the games and the Wii console itself and want the service to be provided to satisfy.

But I think Nintendo are handling this appropriately and I, personally, am satified with what is currently on offer and the rate that the games are being released. I was a Sega kid and owned a Mega Drive (Genesis) and didn't own a SNES (but did buy the SNES and the gems of the console later) and really look forward to playing the games I owned and loved on the Mega Drive, and also the SNES games that I never got to play and the ones that I loved so dearly!!

It's fun to be anticipating so intensely the release of such old games and revisiting the games of old brings back many memories. Whilst I am very happy personally, I do understand the complaints of some.

Bring on the SNES Final Fantasys!! :-)

Wow. I quoted this topic, and was about to say something like "That's the first time I've heard something positive from mantidor for ages" because his avatar is nearly exactly the same as yours, but then I realised that it wasn't him.. Figures.

[WuTangTurtle]

ahh looks like SFII, won't be coming till maybe next week.  I only say this cause of the ESRB has it up along with Pilotwings, Punch-Out, and some others.

Sorry if i got anyones hopes up for this VC Monday, just hope next Monday brings it.

[segagamer12]

Ok it was late I had time to cool off sorry fo rant Ill will leave it alone thanks.