Topic: Twilight Princess Spoiler Discussion Thread (for those who have the game tomorrow)

[MysticGohan]

Nah BM, it's best your forget them for now, there may be a time where it can be accessible I know, I've tried.

[BlackNMild2k1]

So you know where I'm talking about in the Faron Woods (I just looked up the name ). I've been re-jumping that gap for the last 15 minutes(w/ no success) and it starting to get frustrating, but if it would get me an item that I can't come back to get later, or wouldn't obtain until much later, I'll keep trying.

So have you been back there? whats up there?  

[Artimus]

If you can't do it after a few tries the chances of you making it without some new item or ability is basically 0. Nothing in Zelda is made so exact it will takes 1000 times to do.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I moved on, after looking where it is on the map, it looked like it connected to the section outside of the lamp oil guys area that was blocked by the bolder. Besides I spent most of the time just trying to make it over the two pillars and then after about 4 attempts(after I made it across) I realized that the two stumps were just too far away to reach.

[mantidor]

urgh, I'm missing two poes, and the guides aren't helping, I can swear I already visited all those places...

[Blue Plant]

Yeah, I'm not going to finish my poe collection merely because I don't remember where I caught the ones up to now, and I'm not about to run all over the world trying to find the rest.  Well-made collections in games should include checklists that give identifying markers (such as location or giving each entry a name like A, B, C or 1, 2, 3).

[Mario]

Nah then you don't even get the chance to think for yourself. Zelda has always been about exploring.

[Smoke39]

Keeping track of what you've found =/= giving you a list of where to find what you're missing.  Like the bug list.

[BlackNMild2k1]

OMG, I just entered the Water Temple and after finding it funny that a baboon spanked his ass at me, I go into a different room, blow open a wall, break some jars, and what pops out and starts talking to me? A chicken with a human-like head thats called an Ooccoo??!!?? What kind of freaky stuff is going on in Hyrule? It even has two saggy breast with green ariolas<sp> and long green nipples!!?? WTF is that!?  

[MysticGohan]

Meet your new friend ; ) I thought it was a he, until the part of "her" came into words. It's rather freaky. Don't worry BM, it get's weirder later

[NWR_pap64]

The funny thing about the Oocoos?

TP mentions that these freaky chickens could be the true first inhabitants of Hyrule and that they are the closest to the Gods. What I don't understand is if the chickens are indeed an important part of the history of Hyrule why doesn't the older Zelda games make mention of them?

This leads me to believe that:
- Every 100 years new races are born in Hyrule, while others either die out and become extinct or evolve
- Every century the story of Hyrule gets redefined in order to meet the theories and beliefs of that Hyrule

One other thing, what type of race the people of Ordon village are? They resemble Hylians, but they don't have long, pointy ears, leading me to believe that these people are truly the first human characters seen in the Zelda series (although all human like races are labeled as human).

[mantidor]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Nah then you don't even get the chance to think for yourself. Zelda has always been about exploring.

But hints are always very welcome and make the process of the collectathons more enjoyable, I loved the fortune teller and her clues about finding the heart pieces, I also loved how every bug had a pair in the same area, by the time I made the concious purpose to find them I already had one of each at least, so finding their pairs was neat, but this poe quest just sucks, specially for such a lame reward, more damn rupees!? this game is just absurd in that regard, rupees everywhere, even with a five piece heart there are rupees in chests everywhere!

I love exploring, but this is ridiculous seriously, specially without the ability to advance forward to the night, from my 75 hour run at least 15 hours have been spent waiting for the sun to set.

[Hostile Creation]

I like how all of you are still trying to justify all the games being linked together somehow.
They're not trying, not even a little bit.  Just accept this as truth and your lives will be much easier.

[mantidor]

Actually thats what makes the discussion fun, if there was a stablished official timeline, no one would argue it no matter what, like no one argues that MM and tWW follow OoT, because the games explicitly said so. Since neither Miyamoto nor Aunoma had outright denied a timeline or connection of all games, and they do try to vaguely connect them, theres no doubt about it, I don't see an end for the speculation.

[Ceric]

Finally got around to beating Twilight Princess.  I'll probably go back so I can do the Cave of Ordeal.  I also beat Marvel: Ultimate Alliance and I have to say that Marvel Ultimate Alliance has a much more enjoyable ending even though both are good.  The last form of Midna reminds me of the Mother in the Munsters or Addam Family (Natasha?).

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I like how all of you are still trying to justify all the games being linked together somehow.
They're not trying, not even a little bit.  Just accept this as truth and your lives will be much easier.

I believe that when Miyamoto and crew were making the games, they didn't have any idea how to connect the games, so they kept making them, making some small connections while still leaving a lot of questions unanswered.

But its somewhat unfair to say that they are not trying to link the games together. They already explained why all the princesses of Hyrule are called Zelda, TP is littered with OoT references (and its been said that the game takes place 100 years after OoT and before WW) and there have been sequel games that continue the story of a predecessor Zelda game.

They definitely want to tell an engaging story, but are bound to their beliefs of gameplay being far more important than long stories and cutscenes.  

[JonLeung]

Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
OMG, I just entered the Water Temple and after finding it funny that a baboon spanked his ass at me, I go into a different room, blow open a wall, break some jars, and what pops out and starts talking to me? A chicken with a human-like head thats called an Ooccoo??!!?? What kind of freaky stuff is going on in Hyrule? It even has two saggy breast with green ariolas<sp> and long green nipples!!?? WTF is that!?

Wow, you know you missed two already then, don't you?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

TP occurs before WW but does not lead to WW.  They're on different timelines (SHO NUFF, FOO'.  RECOGNIZE).

WW directly follows up Hero of Time story with the 7 sages, and as such is full of Ocarina of Time/Hero of Time references, specifically mentioning a hero who came and left.

TP completely lacks these references, other than the basic environment/setting. If Big Link and the 7 sages took care of the problem 7 years into the future, were they gonna do it all over again after Kid Link was returned to his original timeline? HELL NAW.  Things, turned out differently, which is obvious since TP's Ganondorf was never sealed by Ocarina's 7 sages.  Why bother pulling his ass out of imprisonment to sentence him and seal him somewhere else?  Cuz Ocarina's sages had no role in TP's world, and Ganondorf never manually "acquired" the trifoce, he just seemed to have it without the other sages knowing it, which is unexplained, and it would be retarded if these sages didn't know he had it prior to incarceration, so, he somehow got it out of thin air.  None of the Hero of Time crap happened, so the original sages weren't needed, we got a new set of sages, and we have no reference to a Hero of Time.  But we do have SKELETOR, and he says he was a Hero, but he probably wasn't the hero in the typical green-tunic-Link fashion we're used to.  He also may have had a hand in defeating Ganondorf (plain old desert magick man who didn't have the Triforce of Power until he was sent to the Twilight Realm Ganondorf), but we'll never know more about it cuz Nintendo sucks.  It's obvious TP takes place after Ocarina of Time, but not the timeline we originally expected.  It seems more fitting that it shares its timeline with Majora's Mask (oh WHOOPS, another game that features an alternative dimension to Hyrule.  That also means TP's Hyrule has 3 worlds in one).

[Adrock]

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Ocarina's sages had no role in TP's world, and Ganondorf never manually "acquired" the trifoce, he just seemed to have it without the other sages knowing it, which is unexplained, and it would be retarded if these sages didn't know he had it prior to incarceration, so, he somehow got it out of thin air.

Quote
He also may have had a hand in defeating Ganondorf (plain old desert magick man who didn't have the Triforce of Power until he was sent to the Twilight Realm Ganondorf), but we'll never know more about it cuz Nintendo sucks.

Those two quotes seem to contradict each other. He can't get the Triforce of Power in the Twilight Realm if he had it before getting imprisoned there.

If the timelines split and Ganondorf was imprisoned 7 years in the future, then Ganondorf 7 years in the past would still be around, unless his imprisonment at the end of Ocarina of Time exists in both timelines somehow. In Twilight Princess, Ganondorf already had the Triforce of Power and used it to survive execution before killing the Water Temple sage. If that's the case, Ganondorf from the original timeline would need to attain the Triforce of Power sometime before Twilight Princess. Nintendo could tell a direct prequel explaining that.

I probably misinterpreted you somewhere. Reading through it felt like a hammer to the brain. There is no Zelda chronology. None of it makes sense in a timeline.

I agree on the Nintendo sucks part though.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I meant he got the Triforce right before being sent to the Twilight Realm, preceding his whooping on the Water Sage.  My latter statement was a mish-mash shortcut of information that didn't intend to contradict the former.  The former still stands.

To clarify, the Ganondorf 7 years in the past is the same Ganondorf we face in TP.  His imprisonment at the end of Ocarina is now a different matter in a different timeline that practically has no bearing on TP's timeline.  I'm saying, in TP, Ganondorf didn't "already" have the Triforce prior to his failed execution, he just miraculously received it.  The sages described it as a "divine prank," giving me the notion they didn't foresee his possession of it, meaning Ganondorf never really had it up to that point.  If they didn't know he had it, I say they're pretty pathetic sages.  When the 'Dorf's Twilight imprisonment took place relative to Kid Link's return to his own timeline, and relative to the actual TP adventure, I do not know.  What we did see in TP, which looks silly, was the Triforce of Power appeared to come and go.  In Wind Waker, old fat 'Dorf willed the Triumph Forks to leave their hosts and reunite.  In Ocarina (same as WW 'Dorf), the Triforce didn't leave him after his defeat, he seemed to keep it as if he was the "owner" (he did make first contact after all, after which, the other two pieces *chose* its hosts in Link and Zelda).  In TP, I say 'Dorf never claimed it, and therefore was not a definitive "owner;" the Triforce somehow chose him, just as it chose to leave him for dead at the end of TP.  Cuz it'd be REALLY SILLY for him to  1) claim the triforce  2) wreak havoc on High-Rool  3) be defeated (by SKELETOR or whatever Hero, as it seems they're the only ones qualified to defeat him) then  4) be imprisoned at the mercy of the 7 ghostly sages (whut? did the triforce need a moment to recharge at this time?) then  5) finally use the Triforce to survive his execution and  6) get his Dark Ass FedEx'd to the Twilight Realm despite his divine power.  Steps #1 thru #4 could've easily occurred without the Triforce, and if it was known he always had the Triforce, he would've been dealth with sooner with more extreme measures rather than wasting time chaining him and stabbing him.  Cuz you know, not much hurts when you've got the Power of Cheese on your side.

Do you like how I didn't split paragraphs?

There IS Zelda chronology, a limited one, cuz it's Nintendo's fault for bothering to make 3 FREAKING SEQUELS to one stupidly popular game.  Of course it doesn't make sense in a timeline, but it makes perfect sense now that we have a timetree.  Now that my thoughts are complete, no one has to bother making up theories after me.  Time to close the thread.

This whole making up storylines between storylines and resurrecting your big cheese enemy is all Castlevania madness.  JUST YOU WAIT, THE NEXT ZELDA IS A 4TH SEQUEL TO OCARINA OF TIME INVOLVING LINK VISITING DIFFERENT PLANETS TO FIND SCATTERED TRIFORCE PIECES SO HE CAN RESURRECT TP'S 'DORF AGAIN AND KILL HIM AGAIN TO SOLVE HYRULE'S GLOBAL WARMING HIGH TIDE PROBLEMS.  CUZ YES, NOT ONLY ARE THE MOONS THREATENING TO CRASH DOWN, BUT DEATH MOUNTAIN IS THREATENING TO MAKE THE WORLD EXPLODE AS THE SIX MOONS MAKE CONTACT WITH THE SIX TEMPLES AT THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.  Features a new lighting system and innovative lobster transformation gameplay.

[SixthAngel]

Triforce  I wouldn't say Ganon suddenly received the triforce and then suddenly lost it.  This Ganon was born with it just like Link but didn't know about it or didn't know how to use it until after he got stabbed and it kicked in.  When Link is born he doesn't automatically know he has a triforce.  When the trifoce faded at the end I didn't think it was leaving him but Ganon was going to die so it naturally faded.

[Djunknown]

This isn't really much of a spoiler, but what CAN they possibly do with additional on-line content, if they plan on adding some? The game is relatively easy as it is from start to finish, it doesn't really need to be easier. What about some challenge modes? I can imagine a Wooden Sword mode, where you keep the wooden sword from beginning to end. .

Aside from some cosmetic changes (Ninja link, different color fur for Wolf-link), what other things are there? Thoughts?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Future Zeldas should have a "hard mode" from the beginning and include some kind of bonus in the ending, even if it's just a message that says "you did teh awesome! thanks for playing!" with a picture of Reggie flexing his biceps.

[Hostile Creation]

I agree with what you said, Pap.  There are undeniably connections, and of course some vague strand holds the games together, but they don't function together in any coherent timeline.
I suppose they kind of resemble actual legends, in a sense.  Different accounts of what happened, a series of stories that all take place in the same area or under  similar circumstances, but don't fit together perfectly, due to details and facts being obscured by time and the faults of oral storytelling.

[Nick DiMola]

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional666
This whole making up storylines between storylines and resurrecting your big cheese enemy is all Castlevania madness. JUST YOU WAIT, THE NEXT ZELDA IS A 4TH SEQUEL TO OCARINA OF TIME INVOLVING LINK VISITING DIFFERENT PLANETS TO FIND SCATTERED TRIFORCE PIECES SO HE CAN RESURRECT TP'S 'DORF AGAIN AND KILL HIM AGAIN TO SOLVE HYRULE'S GLOBAL WARMING HIGH TIDE PROBLEMS. CUZ YES, NOT ONLY ARE THE MOONS THREATENING TO CRASH DOWN, BUT DEATH MOUNTAIN IS THREATENING TO MAKE THE WORLD EXPLODE AS THE SIX MOONS MAKE CONTACT WITH THE SIX TEMPLES AT THE ENDS OF THE WORLD. Features a new lighting system and innovative lobster transformation gameplay.

Thanks Pro now you ruined the secrets of the new Zelda game for me, what's next, are you going to reveal the name early too?!