Author Topic: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...  (Read 31311 times)

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Offline Smoke39

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RE:Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2006, 01:50:40 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: RickPowers
No-brainer?  Really?

Have you seen any pictures or video of ANYONE playing a Wii game left-handed?  In fact, has there ever been a left-handed controller (save for the goofy one-handed PS1 controller)?

Giving someone the option of playing left or right handed would nearly DOUBLE the amount of QA time it would take to test the game, since you now need to go through everything twice, once in each configuration.  Why?  Because you have the potential of one small change cascading through all the code, and causing a bug that just doesn't happen playing right-handed.  I can't see anyone spending the time and money to both implement and test such a feature, since we've all been conditioned to play games right-handed anyway.

Of course, the one exception to this is the Wii-Sports games, or other small mini-games, where the code is simpler, and the gameplay naturally lends itself to "handedness".

This video has a guy using his left hand for a few seconds.  It's right after the same guy was using his right hand, though, so maybe they just flipped the video for some reason. :/

And I don't buy that double QA time.  You think they exhaustively test every conceivable control configuration in PC games that let you manually map every single function however you want?
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2006, 01:54:23 PM »
"So there you have it. Link is right handed on Wii and left handed on GameCube."

Ha!  Another reason to buy the Cube version.

Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2006, 02:27:13 PM »
I'm left handed, but I have trained myself to be game-ambidextrous.

Offline mantidor

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RE:Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2006, 02:30:09 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Strell
So I was correct.

GC Zelda will be the "purist" version.


It has always been! even before this news

As a left handed I know the remote+nunchuck configuration is going to be very ackward for me. The less ackward configuration though would be remote in the left hand, because the stick is not difficult to manipulate with my right thumb, Ive done it with Pikmin 2, while trying to aim precisely in a game like Metroid would be hell for me if I try to use the right hand.

For Zelda this is not just the sword, is every single item used, from hookshot to the bow, its actually noticeable for any game that goes into first person, like Red Steel. The main problem is just a visual one, so it probably won't be a big deal, but I can't be sure, I have to play the games first. With Metroid is the same situation, maybe pointing and shooting would be ok, but in the game you use the grapple beam a lot, and its probable that pulling doors or shields with your right hand while Samus is using her left can be dissorienting or confusing.

Thats the thing with the remote, you really have to try it, no ammount of footage of people using the controller is going to make me know or understand how confortable and intuitive it would be for me, not even hands on impressions.

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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2006, 02:34:12 PM »
This is a different Link so it can be a different hand he uses.

Same soul, different bodies, different brains. There's no reason he should have to use the same hand every time.
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Offline Mario

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2006, 04:11:52 PM »
I'm right handed but I would have happily adapted to use my left hand to feel more like Link. Now the game will lack soul.

Offline zakkiel

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2006, 05:56:12 PM »
Quote

You're probably thinking it would be a simple matter of flipping the X axis or something, but it just wouldn't work that way.
No, you wouldn't flip anything. There's nothing magical about left hands that requires you to reverse anything, unless it's something like holding a baseball bat (and then only if the game is coded in a very limited way, so that it assumes everyone is swinging from the right). For something like Galaxy, MP3 or RS it doesn't matter at all which hand holds what - you still move the controller left to move left, and right to move right. As I said, think about it.
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Offline OverHeat

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2006, 05:59:36 PM »
One of the things Nintendo touts on its own site is the fact that these controllers are ambidexterous, allowing for left or right handed play. What that means for Zelda.... *shrug* Guess we'll have to hunt down a lefty and have him test it our for us.
As far as Link being right handed? Well, someone do me a favor. Pop ye olde original LoZ in your NES. Start a new game and go grab the wooden sword. What hand does he hold it up with? Yeeeaahhh, thats right... Now when he swings it.... I dunno... is he stabbing left handed or is he lifting up his tunic and... *shudder* well my point being here is that HA! Link is *actually* ambidexterous! He just chooses to fight with his left hand! Havent any of you people seen Princess Bride? *Link fighting a desperate duel with Ganon*
Ganon: "Why are you smiling?"
Link: "Because I know something... not even the players know..."
Ganon: "Oh? What is that?"
Link: "That I... am not left handed!!"

Just remember, it's not like they made him a pink haired female dwarf for crying out loud...    
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Offline Athrun Zala

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RE:Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2006, 08:26:31 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mario
I'm right handed but I would have happily adapted to use my left hand to feel more like Link. Now the game will lack soul.
LOL
I would've done the same

and Rick, the left-handed side was already programmed anyways (since until after E3, Link was left handed), but seems like there won't an option now....
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Offline wandering

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2006, 08:29:40 PM »
Quote

Just remember, it's not like they made him a pink haired female dwarf for crying out loud...

Yeah, that IS much more unfortunate than the fact that they've switched Link's handedness.

(I will be sad if there isn't a choice - I was planning on swining with my left too.)
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Offline mantidor

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2006, 09:15:26 PM »
"Just remember, it's not like they made him a pink haired female dwarf for crying out loud..."

ALttP disagrees with you, (except for the female part but it doesn't matter because as a japanese character he tends to be on the androginous side :P)


ok now seriously, I know Link's laterality is of course irrelevant, but its a really neat detail, and these are the kind of details that make the games so great, so its just not nice to see one of the most important features of Link go away, even though it makes perfect sense and we understand the reason behind it.

Now changing a game from right handed friendly to left handed friendly is not easy. The problem lies in little details that usuallly go unnoticed by everyone who just casually looks. As we left handed people have to learn the hard way, the world is made for righthanded people, so personally Ive discovered many little things that seem that have nothing to do with which hand you use but they actually do. First example, look at any pen with something written on it, if you hold it in the right hand you can read it, but if you have it on your left it ends up being flipped and thus unreadable.

That is a visual example, so its no big deal, but now lets take this, bags who have holes for earphones. If they are on the side (like the bag I use every day), the hole is in the right if you look at the front of the bag. Nothing that seems to be very important, right? no, as a left handed I grab the bag by its left strap first when Im going to put it on my back, since the hole is in the other side, if Im using my earphones and I try to put my bag in my back the cable tangles around my neck and chokes me (it happened to me twice ¬_¬ very embarrasing) and the same ackward moment happens when I take off the bag and Im using the earphones. Needless to say, the hole for the earphones is useless for me. Theres also the cable on the earphones, notice how if its the kind of earphones that share one single cable, this one always hang on the left side, it seems again irrelevant, until you find yourself in a situation when you are writting in a desk and using the headphones at the same time, since the cable is on the left, it constantly gets in the way of your writting, its just unconfortable there and you have to put it around the back of your neck to write without problems.

In games I had no problems, apparently laterality wasn't that important, but with the DS it changed. While playing Nintendogs I noticed a few things that weren't confortable. You have to walk your dog and he always does it from left to right, if I use my left hand, the hand covers the screen all the time, so I hadmissed presents dropped in the streets in some ocassions. The menus are also uncomfortable, the slide bar is on the right, so again my whole hand covers the items while Im looking at them.

This are very minor complains and theres a solution to overcome the potential problems, I certainly wont through away my Nintendogs copy in disgust, or my earphones, bag and pens for that matter, but it just shows that those details are really hard to see unless you actually test it. So Rick was right when he said that in order to make a game fully friendly for both hands its necessary to completly test it with both players in mind, otherwise something might scape the test, and what if its not a tiny irrelevant detail but a major thing? I didn't realize all the Brain Age footage Ive seen was left handed unfriendly until I grabbed my DS and notice that the game was going to end up being upside down for me, making it basically unplayable, in that case it was completly necessary for the game to have a left handed option or it wouldl just not work.

With the new controller who separates both hands, this inconvenients will be a lot more frequent, maybe it will be only minor stuff and nothing that seriously prevents left handed from controlling the game correctly, but Im still a bit concerned.
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Offline Caliban

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2006, 09:27:19 PM »
Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh...I'm still getting the Wii version just because I'm right-handed, sometimes I'm left-handed, not always, sometimes.

Offline blackfootsteps

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2006, 10:34:21 PM »
So Caliban did Brain Age have a left handed option? I've been thinking of getting it.
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Offline WalkingTheCow

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2006, 11:06:32 PM »
Heh. I dunno, new Link, new hand. Doesn't bother me at all.

Hell, if nobody mentioned anything it would have taken me ages to notice, I'm sure. By the way I'm thrilled to be hearing these hands-on reports that say the new control set-up works as well as it apparently does.  

Offline WuTangTurtle

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2006, 12:11:57 AM »
I wanted to add this, but felt it doesn't deserve its own thread, and it kinda fits here....

If you were planing on trying to be the first owner of a Nintendo Wii, well you lost.  Apparently my sister told me on the TV show Ellen, they gave a kid a Nintendo Wii.  He apparently has some vision problems and developed a way for him to see better by making clicky noises with his mouth.  I dunno exactly how but my sis thought it was crazy, i thought giving him a Wii was crazy.

D@mn u Ellen, I'll never ever watch your show ever again......I mean i don't watch ur show......doh!

Offline wandering

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RE:Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2006, 12:46:38 AM »
I happened to have yesterday's show recorded on the DVR. (What? I think Ellen's funny. Shut up.) And your sister is correct! She had a blind kid on - he can "see" amazingly well with echo-location, plays videogames, and wants to be a game designer. He got a Wii, Twilight Princess, and a bucket full (literally) of DS games and stuff. The exchange went something like:

"Here, Nintendo is giving you - and I don't even know what this is. Here, I'll put this on your lap, and you can see if you can figure out what this is. (Reads card.) Okay, this is stuff that isn't even out yet. This is a Wii, and The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess."
"Oh, wow, yeah, I heard about that on the internet."

Good PR move by Nintendo (although, as it was set up, you could really just barely see the packaging, unfortunatley. Not sure who to blame for that. Anyway.) Now if they can only get Oprah...  
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Offline Mario

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RE:Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2006, 01:11:51 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: blackfootsteps
So Caliban did Brain Age have a left handed option? I've been thinking of getting it.

It does.

Offline mantidor

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2006, 06:10:11 AM »
I just watched that on youtube. Its kind of shocking that now I cannot live without video on demand like youtube or video google, I lived without it for more than 10 years!


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Offline Kairon

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2006, 08:27:12 AM »
Nintendo: do more of these awesome giveaways on TV! Hit all the shows! GOGOGO!

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Offline OverHeat

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RE:Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2006, 09:31:57 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
"Just remember, it's not like they made him a pink haired female dwarf for crying out loud..."

ALttP disagrees with you, (except for the female part but it doesn't matter because as a japanese character he tends to be on the androginous side :P)


ok now seriously, I know Link's laterality is of course irrelevant, but its a really neat detail, and these are the kind of details that make the games so great, so its just not nice to see one of the most important features of Link go away, even though it makes perfect sense and we understand the reason behind it.

Now changing a game from right handed friendly to left handed friendly is not easy. The problem lies in little details that usuallly go unnoticed by everyone who just casually looks. As we left handed people have to learn the hard way, the world is made for righthanded people, so personally Ive discovered many little things that seem that have nothing to do with which hand you use but they actually do. First example, look at any pen with something written on it, if you hold it in the right hand you can read it, but if you have it on your left it ends up being flipped and thus unreadable.

That is a visual example, so its no big deal, but now lets take this, bags who have holes for earphones. If they are on the side (like the bag I use every day), the hole is in the right if you look at the front of the bag. Nothing that seems to be very important, right? no, as a left handed I grab the bag by its left strap first when Im going to put it on my back, since the hole is in the other side, if Im using my earphones and I try to put my bag in my back the cable tangles around my neck and chokes me (it happened to me twice ¬_¬ very embarrasing) and the same ackward moment happens when I take off the bag and Im using the earphones. Needless to say, the hole for the earphones is useless for me. Theres also the cable on the earphones, notice how if its the kind of earphones that share one single cable, this one always hang on the left side, it seems again irrelevant, until you find yourself in a situation when you are writting in a desk and using the headphones at the same time, since the cable is on the left, it constantly gets in the way of your writting, its just unconfortable there and you have to put it around the back of your neck to write without problems.

In games I had no problems, apparently laterality wasn't that important, but with the DS it changed. While playing Nintendogs I noticed a few things that weren't confortable. You have to walk your dog and he always does it from left to right, if I use my left hand, the hand covers the screen all the time, so I hadmissed presents dropped in the streets in some ocassions. The menus are also uncomfortable, the slide bar is on the right, so again my whole hand covers the items while Im looking at them.

This are very minor complains and theres a solution to overcome the potential problems, I certainly wont through away my Nintendogs copy in disgust, or my earphones, bag and pens for that matter, but it just shows that those details are really hard to see unless you actually test it. So Rick was right when he said that in order to make a game fully friendly for both hands its necessary to completly test it with both players in mind, otherwise something might scape the test, and what if its not a tiny irrelevant detail but a major thing? I didn't realize all the Brain Age footage Ive seen was left handed unfriendly until I grabbed my DS and notice that the game was going to end up being upside down for me, making it basically unplayable, in that case it was completly necessary for the game to have a left handed option or it wouldl just not work.

With the new controller who separates both hands, this inconvenients will be a lot more frequent, maybe it will be only minor stuff and nothing that seriously prevents left handed from controlling the game correctly, but Im still a bit concerned.



Regard to LttP: HA! Someone caught that! I was beginning to wonder.....

Regard to "little details": Him being left handed doesnt bother me in the slightest. What is probably ticking me off about this whole thing is that, I have been a hard core die-hard Zelda fan since day one. Now people are looking at me like I am less so just because I dont have a problem with a right-handed Link. I am not naming names, just rest assured it has happened, and multiple times.

Regards to your earphones: Cripes man!! Be careful! Have you attempted to perhaps puncture a hole yourself on the other side? Or would that not make a difference?

Regards to writing: Learn an asian language and forgoe english. ;D

But ultimately, I guess my point was lost. *sigh*
So let me slap it in this post in a really obvious manner; It. is. a. VIDEO GAME. If Link's left or right handedness bugs anyone to the point of "How dare they!! I will NOT buy their evil game!!! They have betrayed my very soul!!", you might wanna take a break from gaming/the internet for a little while and reposition yourself to understand what is really important in life. Unless you are making some serious wagers with shady guys in greasy suits over this stuff, it really isnt that important. If you dont like it thats fine. You wanna gripe about it in a forum, that fine too. Thats what they are here for!  I hear "Bleh! Thats sucks!" I hear "Meh, whatever." I hear "I dont really give a crap." But when folks go totally overboard...WOW. Honestly, I fear for your bloodpressure. Us Nintendo fans gotta watch out for eachother. If you fall into the "overboard" category, seriously, take a break for a while...

sidenote: It would be very, very cool if Nintendo had the "left or right" handed option. As our collegue Mantidor has demonstrated it would be nice if that option came with everything we use. So why is Nintendo suddenly chosen to be the ones to change the world here?  


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Offline vudu

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RE:Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2006, 10:10:21 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: OverHeat
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
"Just remember, it's not like they made him a pink haired female dwarf for crying out loud..."

ALttP disagrees with you, (except for the female part but it doesn't matter because as a japanese character he tends to be on the androginous side :P)
Regard to LttP: HA! Someone caught that! I was beginning to wonder.....
I'm confused.  Are you referring to when Link turns into a bunny when he goes to the Dark World before obtaining the Moon Pearl?  If so, you guys are way off.

But I imagine this can't be what you're talking about, because I expect that at least mantidor knows better (I can't say how big of a fan of Zelda OverHeat is.
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Offline SixthAngel

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RE: Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2006, 11:18:43 AM »
Nintendo has always been about gameplay first and story/continuity second.  This fits the new motion sensitive gameplay better so they changed the game.  The people here who are Nintendo fans should be happy about it.  Getting stuck in a quagmire of tiny details from previous versions has killed lesser franchises.  

Offline Kairon

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RE:Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2006, 11:23:23 AM »
Agreed.

As a die-hard Zelda fan, I'm not bothered at all that Link is right-handed here.

... But I'm buying both versions of the games anyways, so I'll still have my south paw Linkie! <3

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Offline RickPowers

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RE:Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2006, 11:41:34 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: SixthAngel
Nintendo has always been about gameplay first and story/continuity second.  This fits the new motion sensitive gameplay better so they changed the game.  The people here who are Nintendo fans should be happy about it.  Getting stuck in a quagmire of tiny details from previous versions has killed lesser franchises.


Normally I'd agree, but this is the first time where there will be two versions of the same game with actual, tangible differences.  I'm all for making the story fit the game, but this is a case where they simply aren't being consistent about it, which seems sloppy.

As for obsessing over the details, that's what makes good games great.  Look at Metroid Prime ... having the visor as your HUD was good enough, but they went a step further towards pulling you into the game by making the visor an object that light reflects off of and things can splatter on.  Those details are what people love about the game.  Similar details are what we love about Zelda, and his being left-handed was one of them.  That they are now treating that detail with (for lack of a better word) disrespect, is just disappointing.

I don't care enough to buy all, or to only buy the GameCube version ... I'll buy the Wii version because it is the superior GAMING experience of the two.  That said, it's just a shame that this particular dash of flavor was watered down.
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Offline JonLeung

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RE:Suprised no one is flipping out about this yet ...
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2006, 11:46:40 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
Quote

Originally posted by: OverHeat
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
"Just remember, it's not like they made him a pink haired female dwarf for crying out loud..."

ALttP disagrees with you, (except for the female part but it doesn't matter because as a japanese character he tends to be on the androginous side :P)
Regard to LttP: HA! Someone caught that! I was beginning to wonder.....
I'm confused.  Are you referring to when Link turns into a bunny when he goes to the Dark World before obtaining the Moon Pearl?  If so, you guys are way off.

Link's hair appears pinkish/purplish in A Link To The Past.  Plus, he appears dwarfish.  Go ahead and check.

See here, in the Animal Crossing textures.  That's a page on VGMaps.com that I've been meaning to change or remove altogether because it's mostly useless.  Not totally useless now, apparently.