Topic: Wii Launch Titles

[Kairon]

A Mario Galaxy February/March release, and June/July SSBB launch does sound appealing... hmm... I wonder what they'd have for Fall releases then?

Of course, the idea behind having a Mario Galaxy June-July release and a SSBB October/November release is that this gives third party games, and new Nintendo IPs more breathing room in-between.

Also, one has to wonder what exactly the timetables can be for Wii development. A Fall SSBB launch gives that game about 1year 4 months dev time assuming a start date of July 2006 (which was the last day to apply for a job to the team!). Likewise, Mario Galaxies must be a game being pushed real hard, since because it's team core is the Donkey Kong; Jungle Beat team, they couldn't have started any earlier than March 2005 (the release date of Jungle Beat).

Actually, looking at those dates, Mario may hit their 1.5 years in development mark at September or October 2006. This usually suffices for a launch game, or a plain 'ol AAA title, but of course, we are talking about a Mario game. AND, this is only assuming that principal development of Mario Galaxy started right after the Jungle Beat team finished up, which is most likely false. It is probably safe to assume that mario Galaxy will hit the 1.5 years in development mark in December 2005, giving the team about 2-3 months between the Jungle Beat Project and start of Mario to do general small tech demo designs, to have Miyamoto decide he wants to put them on Mario, and to have them take a little break time.

Likewise, let's peg August 2006 as the start date for SSBB, a game that existed on paper until they finally finagled the game's producer away from indie projects, and set him up with his own studio, which, I'm assuming (thanks to some documents long lost to the internet) stopped hiring as of June 2006. This means that by November 2007, SSBB would've been 1 year and 5 months in development.... which we're hoping SHOULD be enough for a AAA game developed on the Wii.

Anyways, all of my speculation only serves to... what? I don't know what I've just done. ARGH! I want an hour of my life back!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
Seriously, guys....

You cannot expect Nintendo to release 8 or so major games this console cycle. You refer to the old days, but you musn't forget how easy it was to develope a game back then. Sure it still took time, but now-a-days it doesn't even compare.

QFT. Seriously, how can you expect Nintendo to release a large number of games when Mario and Zelda games are known to take 150-250 people anywhere from 2-2.5 years to make?

What's more important is that while we have these large flagship titles, Nintendo also amasses a number of third-party, new IPs, second-party, non-gaming titles and VC titles that can support and add spice and breath variety and dynamism into the console without the dependency on one-shot biggie titles.

~Carmin M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
Seriously, guys....

You cannot expect Nintendo to release 8 or so major games this console cycle. You refer to the old days, but you musn't forget how easy it was to develope a game back then. Sure it still took time, but now-a-days it doesn't even compare.

QFT. Seriously, how can you expect Nintendo to release a large number of games when Mario and Zelda games are known to take 150-250 people anywhere from 2-2.5 years to make?

What's more important is that while we have these large flagship titles, Nintendo also amasses a number of third-party, new IPs, second-party, non-gaming titles and VC titles that can support and add spice and breath variety and dynamism into the console without the dependency on one-shot biggie titles.

~Carmin M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Great points Kairon, I think we will all be much happier with a delay for Mario Galaxy and SSBB. Like I said before the Wii lineup is strong enough without being too bogged down with Nintendo's AAA titles, this will give consumers the chance to try out 3rd party games. I know as a gamer, I tend to try more games out during launch than any other time (especially the DS, about every new game, no matter who made it was a must have lol). So let's give the 3rd parties a break, it will end up rewarding us gamers later on, not only from increased 3rd party support but two perfected AAA titles in Mario Galaxy and SSBB.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: UniversalJuan IF I have to wait longer than Spring 2007 for my Brawl due to the comments posted here, it just won't be pretty...I want Brawl NOW.

Stop RIGHT there!

It was the rushing of SSBM which left so many blatantly unfinished and unpolished aspects to the game. Under no circumstances should they rush Brawl.

I don't care if it takes until 2008: I want them to spend all the time they need on that game, period.

Quote
QFT. Seriously, how can you expect Nintendo to release a large number of games when Mario and Zelda games are known to take 150-250 people anywhere from 2-2.5 years to make?

Easy: you take some of the $800 million the DS made LAST year (forget this year...) and spend it on opening new dev houses.

[Stimutacs Addict]

agreed. Brawl needs to be perfectly polished... and if anything is too broken (lame chainthrows coughSHIEKcough) then WiiConnect24 can auto-adjust

[Smash_Brother]

According to the translation of Sakurai's Japanese site (done by SmashBrawl), the game is going to be adjusted and made "easier":

The speed of the game will be “moderated,” and it was also mentioned in another update that “easiness” will be stressed in Brawl over the “finer details of combat.” What does this mean for us? Well, that the game will probably be a little easier to play.

Speed makes entirely too much of a difference and I hope that, if nothing else, they fix that. SSBM is just a competition to see who has the best reflexes and one of the primary reasons I loved the original is because it managed to avoid that kind of Street Fighter edge where speed was everything.

The tiers make a colossal difference: I'm a sh*tty Fox player and an excellent Bowser player, but I can still lose with Bowser while I never lose with Fox because his speed just makes so much of a difference.

If Brawl could just resolve this, I'd be satisfied with the game.

[Requiem]

I don't how anyone could bitch so much about SSBM. It is the greatest fighter ever made. Period.

The original is un-playable now.

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
It was the rushing of SSBM which left so many blatantly unfinished and unpolished aspects to the game.

Oh yes, what a pile of crap that game was. It was so clearly thrown together at the last minute and hardly even worth buying in its present state...

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
SSBM is just a competition to see who has the best reflexes and one of the primary reasons I loved the original is because it managed to avoid that kind of Street Fighter edge where speed was everything.

The tiers make a colossal difference: I'm a sh*tty Fox player and an excellent Bowser player, but I can still lose with Bowser while I never lose with Fox because his speed just makes so much of a difference.

When was the last time you played the first? Honestly, a lot of the changes done for Melee (except to Kirby) improved the characters quite a bit in terms of balance.

For example, they actually nerfed both Fox and Captain Falcon in Melee, reducing Fox's defense and Captain Falcon's damage. The characters were both even more broken in the first game, so I don't see how one could claim that this wasn't a problem before when it clearly was. Especially given how powerful grabs used to be before they were fixed, giving a huge edge to Fox, Falcon and Pikachu who could perform them better on account of their agility.

Also, speed is not everything in Melee, as characters like Ganondorf can more than hold their own. The problem with characters like Bowser is simply that he sucks, with his only advantage being his huge defense while he is very slow, lacks range in his attacks and deals unimpressive damage.

Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
I don't how anyone could bitch so much about SSBM. It is the greatest fighter ever made. Period.

The original is un-playable now.

Requiem = My hero  

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok Oh yes, what a pile of crap that game was. It was so clearly thrown together at the last minute and hardly even worth buying in its present state...

Reasons SSBM was clearly rushed:

1. The texture on Roy's legs doesn't properly connect to his torso.

2. No actual "Random" button in the character select screen.

3. The character select screen in general was shoddy.

4. The CPU AI will not use certain moves, likely because the programmers did not have time to ensure that the AI wouldn't kill itself (JP's sleep, rollout, Yoshi's egg, etc.).

5. The tiers favor speed over all else, period.

Quote
Also, speed is not everything in Melee, as characters like Ganondorf can more than hold their own.

Umm, no.

When a Game Over tournament (biggest SSBM tourney in the country) is won by a 'dorf player, or ANY player aside from Fox, Falco, Marth and Shiek, I'll reconsider.

Until then, the tiers clearly dictate that speed >>>>>>>>> all else.

Quote
The original is un-playable now.

My copy was stolen and I can't be troubled to keep my N64 around, but SSB could easily be my first VC title.

And could we PLEASE not discuss this here? This never goes anywhere because the debate is based on OPINION and those don't change.

I'm just saying that I hope Brawl spends ample time in the oven. I don't want another SSB game with incomplete textures, AI which doesn't utilize the character's entire moveset and tiers which dictate that, if I want to have a serious chance at a tournament win, I must select from one of only four characters.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Mario rules, what are you talking about

I'm getting RayGuy, Red Steak, Monkey Nads, Twilight Flop (both Flop versions), Metroid Low Quality Graphics, Hot Nurse Center and BIG DAMN TRUCKS for sure at launch.

[Requiem]

SB, are you the type to over analyze everything? Cuz, if so...good luck getting a girl mate! (P.s. I'm kinda joking)


Pro: That's most likely what I'll get, except maybe not monkey nads. I might replace that with WiiSports.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

REQUIEM HATES THIRD PARTIES

[Ceric]

We know Pro666 you don't have to smash him and green is an unbecoming color on you.

[Nephilim]

"ANY player aside from Fox, Falco, Marth and Shiek, I'll reconsider.

Reasons SSBM was clearly rushed:

1. The texture on Roy's legs doesn't properly connect to his torso.

2. No actual "Random" button in the character select screen.

3. The character select screen in general was shoddy.

4. The CPU AI will not use certain moves, likely because the programmers did not have time to ensure that the AI wouldn't kill itself (JP's sleep, rollout, Yoshi's egg, etc.).

5. The tiers favor speed over all else, period."

exoliting the game doesnt make a good player, just because melee doesnt ban broken characters like everyother fighting game tourament on earth

1. and? iv played many games with minor glitches like that
2. maybe they ment not to have a random button, clearly the system they used works
3. again this is the system they choose
4. so? iv played games were ai suicides too much, making them not pull of surtain moves is just a saftey net
5. again because they exploit cheap chain combo's

game was made by HAL, they had a quirky system for choosing stages and people
they tried to make it VR, even having the abilty to turn the screen, I do not know how you can see it as rushed because they took this style

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Reasons SSBM was clearly rushed:

1. The texture on Roy's legs doesn't properly connect to his torso.

2. No actual "Random" button in the character select screen.

3. The character select screen in general was shoddy.

4. The CPU AI will not use certain moves, likely because the programmers did not have time to ensure that the AI wouldn't kill itself (JP's sleep, rollout, Yoshi's egg, etc.).

5. The tiers favor speed over all else, period.

That's a pretty lame list to try and convince someone that SSBM was clearly rushed. The game's random selection is done through picking outside of the characters to the left or right... and that's rushed? I guess it couldn't have been done because a full menu would have looked uglier with two "random" places to the left and right? Also the computer DOES use moves like Yoshi's Egg, but I have never seen them use Sleep because, let's face it, you'll have a hard time hitting with that unless the opponent isn't aware what Jiggly is able to do.

As for the unbalance, well I hate to break it to you but every fighter with any level of distinct characters have a tier to them. SSB:M was no way one of the worst I have seen though, especially considering how many variables there are with levels and items.

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Umm, no.

When a Game Over tournament (biggest SSBM tourney in the country) is won by a 'dorf player, or ANY player aside from Fox, Falco, Marth and Shiek, I'll reconsider.

Until then, the tiers clearly dictate that speed >>>>>>>>> all else.

I have seen Gannondorf players hold their own in the Japanese tournaments. Do they win the whole thing? No, but then the character is still more than great in capable hands. You also have to figure that with the inclusion of items that aren't found in the torunament place that it changes things a little, as more defense becomes more important with things like Pokéballs in the mix.

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
And could we PLEASE not discuss this here? This never goes anywhere because the debate is based on OPINION and those don't change.

You brought it here, however random it seemed to start knocking Melee in a Wii launch title thread.

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
...if I want to have a serious chance at a tournament win, I must select from one of only four characters.

I suggest you watch more tournament videos, as people have made it to the semi-finals with Peach, the Marios, Link and others. It's not as close minded as you make it out to be.  

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
I suggest you watch more tournament videos, as people have made it to the semi-finals with Peach, the Marios, Link and others. It's not as close minded as you make it out to be.

So you're saying that, if I practice extremely hard with Link, I can strive to get 4th place in tournaments?

Quote
You brought it here, however random it seemed to start knocking Melee in a Wii launch title thread.

No, but when I make a comparison to Melee when talking about Brawl (which is inevitable considering it's its predecessor), people feel the need to come forward and defend the game as though they're the ones who developed it or something.

It was rushed. We KNOW it was rushed. It lacked the polish that most Nintendo games have in the way of some clunky interfaces and absolutely broken characters.

So I reiterate, let them take as LONG AS THEY NEED WITH BRAWL. I was in the camp of people who couldn't wait to get Melee no matter how quickly it came. Had I known then what I know now, yes, I WOULD have put it back in the oven for another few months. It's a great game, but it was rushed and I feel it suffers as a result.

I'm insanely glad that Nintendo will have such a killer lineup of software for 2006 because it buys Sakurai the extra time necessary to polish the game, something which Melee didn't have because it was rushed out, and I don't care how much you love the game, IT WAS RUSHED TO MAKE DEC 3RD RELEASE.

Now, unless someone wants to argue that the game wasn't rushed despite the fact that Sakurai has SAID that it was rushed and we even have the Akenia stage which didn't make it into the game to PROVE it, can we please DROP the subject?

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666and BIG DAMN TRUCKS for sure at launch.

I don't think BDT is a launch title.

They showed it off, but I don't recall them ever making it official that it would be ready for launch.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I hate to say it but I think Smash has a point with character balance in SSBM, but since I would never get good enough to even get 550,00th place so I don't think it matters that much to me.  

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
I hate to say it but I think Smash has a point with character balance in SSBM, but since I would never get good enough to even get 550,00th place so I don't think it matters that much to me.

With 1v1 internet play (which Sakurai is trying for), it WILL matter.

Of course, maybe this will open the door to downloadable tweaks and updates in brawl. I know that there was a change to Bowser in later versions of the game where they nerfed his fire breath to not activate more quickly in the air (which is ridiculous, considering he's bottom tier).

Speaking of net play, we need a list of which launch titles will have ONLINE components...

[IceCold]

I agree with the notion that Mario should be released in May/June and Smash Bros should be in October/November 2007..

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
So you're saying that, if I practice extremely hard with Link, I can strive to get 4th place in tournaments?

Is that something to sneeze at? Even playing Marth you are going to have to practice your ass off to even qualify, so I don't see what you are aiming at complaining that someone was able only able to get 4th with someone that you had original stated to be nearly unplayable in the tournament environment.

The fact that some have a learning curve to play them best never bothered me either, and I love it when I see someone master the "sliding" rush for Luigi, which is very scary to see pulled off.

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
No, but when I make a comparison to Melee when talking about Brawl (which is inevitable considering it's its predecessor), people feel the need to come forward and defend the game as though they're the ones who developed it or something.

It's a message board. If you slam a game, even in a topic unrelated to it, you can expect response if people disagree with your assessment.

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
It was rushed. We KNOW it was rushed. It lacked the polish that most Nintendo games have in the way of some clunky interfaces and absolutely broken characters.

Yet it was the most beloved game for the Gamecube. Stop overblowing its faults. You are acting like this was a game that could have been good, but blew due to its development process. Every game could have benefited from more development time, and Melee was no exception, but that hardly did anything to stop it from being one of the best offerings last generation.

Also, the interface was anything but clunky, and I loved the design and ease of navigation given the incredible amount of options they featured.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok Is that something to sneeze at? Even playing Marth you are going to have to practice your ass off to even qualify, so I don't see what you are aiming at complaining that someone was able only able to get 4th with someone that you had original stated to be nearly unplayable in the tournament environment.

All I'm saying is that I would have rather had the game BALANCED than its current state, and yes, when I can be a crap Fox player and STILL win 9 of 10 games simply because of the speed, I do think it's a problem worthy of note.

Quote
It's a message board. If you slam a game, even in a topic unrelated to it, you can expect response if people disagree with your assessment.

I'm trying to keep this from erupting into another of THOSE threads before Vudu comes in and calls us for it.

Quote
Yet it was the most beloved game for the Gamecube. Stop overblowing its faults. You are acting like this was a game that could have been good, but blew due to its development process. Every game could have benefited from more development time, and Melee was no exception, but that hardly did anything to stop it from being one of the best offerings last generation.

How does any of that change the fact that Brawl has potential to be a drastic improvement over it by balancing the characters and refining the gameplay?

Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem SB, are you the type to over analyze everything? Cuz, if so...good luck getting a girl mate! (P.s. I'm kinda joking)

Actually, it's killed at least one of my past relationships.

Also, were the Ubi 5 (oh sh*t! deja vu...) ever confirmed as launch titles or are they still technically launch window titles?

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
All I'm saying is that I would have rather had the game BALANCED than its current state...

Who wouldn't?

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
...and yes, when I can be a crap Fox player and STILL win 9 of 10 games simply because of the speed, I do think it's a problem worthy of note.

I would fully agree... if that were even remotely true. You are not going to see a Fox player with only 2-3 matches under their belt take on, and win against, a seasoned player who has picked Bowser. It's just not going to happen. You also have to consider that a 1vs1 match is very different from a 4 player free-for-all, where things like Fox's defense become much more of an issue.

The game does have tiers though, no one can say otherwise, but you keep blowing them way out of proportion to try and prove your point.

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
How does any of that change the fact that Brawl has potential to be a drastic improvement over it by balancing the characters and refining the gameplay?

In absolutely no way, nor was it even directed at it. I have high expectations from Brawl, as it's currently my most anticipated game.

I'm interested though, since you seem so bent out of shape about the balance in Melee: if Brawl was released with the same degree of tiers found in the previous two games, do you think you'd dislike it?

[Nephilim]

melee fans will just have to accept that brawl will be a new game
its not like KOF were orochi iroi will always have high priority moves and super powered attacks and juggles
people like fox were not designed to play as they do now, meaning they will be totally different which a few moves remaining
people seem to think that HAL will look at online vids and go "wow there awsome" lets build our game around that, instead its proberly more like nintendos view on powersliding in mario kart DS

[ShyGuy]

....Which game is Monkey Nads again?

[Ceric]

Ok I have the list of confirmed online games....

*
*
*
*
*

Oh wait there's nothing on it.
Also last I heard developers are either just getting the WiiConnect24 stuff or haven't gotten it yet.