Author Topic: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda  (Read 56019 times)

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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #150 on: March 17, 2006, 03:19:45 PM »
I imagine it's challenging to add more first parties when you need 1) offices/resources to house them in and 2) Reliable/experienced/talented individuals to lead these teams.
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Offline jasonditz

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RE: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #151 on: March 17, 2006, 03:37:27 PM »
Getting really good people probably is an issue, I can't imagine the office space is holding them back. Maybe bring in a whole bunch of less experienced teams and just turn them loose and see what they can do... some will undoubtedly flop, but somewhere in there might be the next Miyamoto.

Offline mantidor

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RE:Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #152 on: March 17, 2006, 06:50:27 PM »
Long whiny rant ahead again! :'D


" The only thing you are getting ripped off of, is a couple month delay (I really doubt this 1 year delay was just for Rev functionality)."

Thats the big point of concern for me. In one hand we have the possibility that rev functionality is added last minute, so will it be a good implementation? what if its mediocre? Even if its true that in just two weeks they added first person aiming to the Echoes demo, well, I think that it would be seen as a half assed implementation if all they do is mapping first person aiming, fishing and something else to TP and call it done. I dont think that just taking a couple of months to add the remote functionality is going to yield decent results. And a couple of months is already a considerable long time waiting.

On the other hand, they might be taking a long time to do this, probably since they finalized the controller idea (and I fear this is the real case), the problem with this is how it royally screws the GC fanbase, specially because they promised this game to be for the fans and for GC a million times. Also, the GC game will suffer, because it was never the real focus. The last, most amazing traditional Zelda game as we know it? all lies. And even if the focus on the rev features is considerable, it wouldnt be the best way to bring Zelda to the Revolution, because its tied to the Cube, they arent free to explore insane, crazy ideas. The worst part is that it would be clear that they only lied to extend the GC life with a false promise and even to make some people buy a GC for the game, I couldnt flame Kutaragi anymore, because Nintendo would be at the same level.

Its a lose-lose situation for me, but Ill rather have the first one, at least Id know that they invested their resources on making the original game, and Zelda revolution will come along in the next years to trully prove the remote capabilities, I can wait for it, I certainly can. And most important, Nintendo wouldnt be so tacky.

As for how good this is for Nintendo financially, I really dont give a damn I dont have stocks invested in them. Of course I couldnt be indiferent in the past to the fact that Nintendo is making money, because part of that money was destined to make games like the Wind Waker, Metroid Prime or Mario Sunshine, even if Nintendo was also investing in Pokemon games. But if Nintendo is shifting their priorities with the franchises I like the most, then what good is to me that they are going to make more money?

" I trust that even as Nintendo learns to balance business alongside their creative drive Miyamoto and Iwata will still hold at heart their experiences as Game Developers and the spirit of innovation and quality that is Nintendo."

Thats why Im so dissapointed and angry, thats why I sound so agressive sometimes , I had that trust but I lost it with this anouncement T_T I cant believe in them.  

I missed this before:

"How else would anyone propose Nintendo handle this issue, hmm? Release a GC-only version, then follow up with an LE version with Rev functionality? Would that have made you happier? No, because you'd complain WELL CRAPS WHAT IFS I GETS A REV, HUH? THEN I NEED THE LE. There'd be rants of double dipping and other nonsense. At this point they can't make people happy enough. What happened to the golden days of the N64 Nintendo fanbase, where we expected delays, and subsequently let them happen with a casual, lassiez-faire like attitude of "Well, when it's done, it's done, simple."

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Nintendo can never win. Ever."

well, thats not my case, before this I couldnt point a single bad thing about Nintendo, I defended the water pack and the toon shading with my heart and soul, I also defended the first delay, although I was frustrated, I was also happy to wait more because Nintendo promised heaven an earth for this game and I had blind trust, but this features really made me go "WTF!" with them, I still cant believe this is real.
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Offline RiskyChris

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RE: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #153 on: March 17, 2006, 07:04:43 PM »
I guarantee you the revmote functionality isn't the only thing being tweaked up until launch.

Offline jasonditz

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RE: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #154 on: March 17, 2006, 07:09:44 PM »
Yeah, yeah, the sky is falling

TP is simultaneously a Cube game so it'll suck on the Rev and a Rev game so it'll suck on the cube, it's the worst possible situation humanly possible and the disc will be sharpened so it'll cut you when you try to take it out of the package. It was all part of some insidious plot to sell Cubes, and we see how well that worked... all those people that rushed out and bought a Cube for one game that never had a firm release date. It's Virtual Boy, Crystal Chronicles being a connectivity title, and Microsoft buying Rare all rolled into one.

We get the idea. We all count ourselves amongst the damned.



Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #155 on: March 17, 2006, 07:28:59 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666

Yes, they should expand, and there's the problem:  was it easier for Nintendo, as a company, to simply increase their development resources on BOTH fronts, drop one front to focus on the ailing front, or shift their focus to the front where they were wildly successful at?

Should the hand putting food in their mouth drop what its doing to help out the 2nd hand that doesn't have the strength to lift the knife to cut the turkey (a fairly small turkey)?  Or let the food hand continue its way while the knife hand takes a break and tries again when it has the energy to do so?

We already know the results:  DS is a success, GameCube is already on life-support even in a short generation, and Rev has a brighter future than the GameCube initially displayed.  The market did force Nintendo to expand, it just took a generation to do it.


Excellent metaphors. I couldn't have said it better.

I think Nintendo knows that being the little guy means they need to offer something else which the big guys just don't have.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #156 on: March 17, 2006, 07:36:24 PM »
So basically you are saying what? That Nintendo had TP done around November, and would have rather it came out then, and that somehow a 1 year delay (worse case scenario) was used for Rev functionality is going to hurt the quality? The game has been in development for around 2 years and I'm sure it was focused for GC gamers! I'm sorry but this whining is really making no sense, and I can understand why there is name calling in the thread, even if I don't agree that is the best way to go about things.

You do realize the Zelda team is huge right? They are able to multitask where needed, they probaly have a small group working solely on Rev functionality while the others are making improvements to the overall game. Trust me, there is no way there could be more than 6 months MAX needed for Rev implementations, and that includes a design period, even in a smaller design team, and that could easily be a quality implementation. Personally I hope those that are talking about the sky falling end up dissapointed in the long run, serves them right for running their mouths (fingers) before there is anything concrete about what they did and how they did it.  
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Offline jasonditz

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RE:Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #157 on: March 17, 2006, 07:49:37 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane

Plus I've never been completely convinced that cartridges were used just because of Super Mario 64 but more due to Nintendo penny-pinching.  They wanted complete control over their medium so that they could make money supplying the cartridges on top of high licencing fees.  Maybe it was a combination of issues but I'm sure that played a big part.  Afterall their attempt to "address" the problem was the DD, which again used a medium they were in complete control of.  If Nintendo initially thought having two different mediums was a good idea they could have from the getgo made a system that used both cartridges and CDs but they didn't.  Now that idea might not actually be cost feasible but still.  Plus Nintendo also canned the initial Sony/Nintendo SNES CD attachment because Sony would get a cut of the profits.  They also didn't use a standardized format on the Cube.  They've been notorious for not wanting to share for a long time so the theory isn't so unlikely.


OTOH, Nintendo's the only one talking about using memory cards for their next generation system in a format they don't own.

Offline mantidor

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RE:Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #158 on: March 17, 2006, 08:11:02 PM »
"So basically you are saying what? That Nintendo had TP done around November, and would have rather it came out then, and that somehow a 1 year delay (worse case scenario) was used for Rev functionality is going to hurt the quality?"

No, not at all, I didnt explain myself clearly I suppose. Lets say that this game is developed by separate teams with one focusing on graphics, the other in controller implementation for GC, other for Rev controls, the other on level design etc, but it never happens that at last month they all get glued together. Its a constant interaction between all the areas. TP wasnt done by November because it would obviously have been released then, what Im saying is that its posible that Nintendo decided to diminish the focus on the GC part at that time and started implementing the functionality, giving it the priority. Its a posibility among others, I do think that was clear enough, I never say "this is what happen, period".

Its simply the fact that they split the focus of the game between GC and Rev, the worst case, they are giving more focus to the Rev, the not-as-worse case, they are giving more focus to the GC, my ideal case: give all the damn focus to the GC! The game will be good most likely, but I would take any day extra dungeons, weapons or bosses than remote functionality.


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Offline Kairon

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RE:Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #159 on: March 17, 2006, 08:13:28 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
well, thats not my case, before this I couldnt point a single bad thing about Nintendo, I defended the water pack and the toon shading with my heart and soul, I also defended the first delay, although I was frustrated, I was also happy to wait more because Nintendo promised heaven an earth for this game and I had blind trust, but this features really made me go "WTF!" with them, I still cant believe this is real.


Me thinks this is where we differ. I can understand defending the water pack and mario Sunshine, but as a Nintendo fanboy I look at Mario Sunshine as a failure. I look at Double Dash as sparkling innovationy.

And in my opinion Mantidor, you would have had a lot more success losing faith in Nintendo after beating Wind Waker. Wind Waker was THE MOST INCOMPLETE RUSHED PRODUCT Nintendo has ever gotten its loyal fans to spend money on.

Don't look at Twilight Princess if you want to lose faith in Nintendo's dedication to game quality. Look at Wind Waker and it's lack of levels, its lack of content, and its time consuming collection quests.

But don't claim that you've lost faith in Nintendo because of a game that hasn't even come out yet. A much better example already exists.

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Offline mantidor

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RE: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #160 on: March 17, 2006, 08:20:30 PM »
Wind Waker was a bold move, the kind of move that makes Nintendo so great. The game was incomplete, but it was a fantastic experience for me, it was timeless and absolutely charming, the game is simply unique. Twilight Princess is Nintendo getting coward, giving remote functionality, besides all my other complains, is Nintendo being coward regarding the rev. You cant even compare these two at all.



"You borrow style elements from 20yr old scifi flicks and 10 yr old PC scifi flight shooters, and you add bump mapping and TAKE AWAY character, and you got Halo." -Pro

Offline Kairon

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RE: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #161 on: March 17, 2006, 08:22:30 PM »
Well, nowadays the only company trying to keep formats as unproprietary as possible is Microsoft. And if they win, well, then we've got bigger problems than proprietary formats, lol.

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Offline Kairon

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RE: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #162 on: March 17, 2006, 09:02:15 PM »
Windwaker was a cowardly move by Nintendo. And it was a dumb one.

First of all, the game was unfinished: it had amazingly few dungeons and an infinitesimal amount of landmass when there could have been so much more.

Second of all, it had collection quests, the same scourge that permeated hated Rare games Bajo-Tooie and DK64.

Third, it suffered from the same malaise that struck GC era sequels: the malaise of not truly being anything new.

Fourth, various destinations in the ocean prove next to useless and not fully developed, such as the fort-like structure that is just walls sticking out of the ocean, shoots cannonballs out of its walls, and really doesn't serve much purpose.

If you can't see that Wind Waker was rushed to completion and suffered immensely as a result of it, if you don't see how much of a blemish this was on Nintendo's reputation as a developer who valued a game's quality above its launch date, if you don't see that not once have I criticized it's artistic style nor it's battle system, nor even its "fun" aspect (though I personally see many further wrongs in myriad related fields like difficulty and dungeon design), then either you're still strangely hopelessly stuck in fanboy mode, or you're simply beyond hope.

Then you go on to call Nintendo cowardly for taking Zelda: TP, which for all we know is shaping up to be a very content-strong game UNLIKE Wind Waker, taking TP and adding just a single aspect of forward compatibility and you call that cowardly. Here is a company that is going for the gold, trying to balance creativity and the pressures of the real world, trying to do its legacy justice WHILE AT THE SAME TIME trying to ensure that it has a future, a company that apologizes to consumers when they run out of DS units or DS lites, a company that has just introduced an entirely new game interface and is taking the leap into the unknown, a company that is the last bastion against the uber-commercialization of mega-corporations like Sony and Microsoft, a company that does all this... and you call them cowardly?

Call them overly cautious in ensuring a strong launch-related title for their next system, fine. Say they're leveraging their past with this forward compatibility, sure. Claim that Nintendo is painfully aware of just how badly failure in this next console generation can hurt them, yes.

But I have yet to see any proof that you have ANY right whatsoever to call them cowardly.

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Offline Kairon

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RE:Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #163 on: March 17, 2006, 09:17:32 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
Wind Waker was a bold move, the kind of move that makes Nintendo so great. The game was incomplete, but it was a fantastic experience for me, it was timeless and absolutely charming, the game is simply unique. Twilight Princess is Nintendo getting coward, giving remote functionality, besides all my other complains, is Nintendo being coward regarding the rev. You cant even compare these two at all.


Wow, here's Windwaker, a game you yourself admit to being incomplete, yet you're not phased at all that WW's incompleteness means that Nintendo has completely slapped its most adherent proponents in the face. We expected a masterpiece, they gave us a half-finished ghost-of-a-Zelda game with excessive sailing and collection quests. And they did it because they wimped out, they didn't want to delay it further, they wanted to say "Here, we have Zelda!" KNOWING that they were disappointing our expectations and KNOWING that they were short-selling themselves, their fans AND videogames.

You want to look at coward, look at that. Don't talk to me about TP, a game that NONE OF US has played, a game that will have had more time and effort poured into it than WW, a game that some people STILL hold out hope for that it can steal game of the year from games on systems 2, 3, 5, or even ten-fold the power of what it's on...

If you want to call Nintendo a coward, look at your beloved WW. Don't point at TP's forward compatibility, a feature that BY-NO-MEANS detracts from your gamecube-playing experience aside from, boo-hoo, having to wait a couple more months to have a chance to reach nirvana.

TP has done NOTHING to you Mantidor. You haven't even played it. HECK, the game isn't even COMPLETE!

WW, on the other hand, has been instrumental in materially damaging the faith that Nintendo fans the world over had that Nintendo wouldn't ever do to them what every other money-grubbing games-as-business corporation wants to do to us now.

Yes, we can't even begin to compare the two games. WW was a game that destroyed our faith in Nintendo's integrity. TP is a game that will try to restore it.

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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #164 on: March 17, 2006, 09:57:22 PM »
With all the time spent on TP, I'm hoping they packed in so much "STUFF" that it reaches SSBM-levels.
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Offline stevey

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RE: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #165 on: March 18, 2006, 03:36:30 AM »
Lets look on the bright side "I would say that we are progressing well with completing it" sound like their almost done and this is thier last second idea their were talking about when the delayed it. So it's release must be soon.

"Look at Wind Waker. Do you think Nintendo will do anything to make TP challenging in any form?"

ZELDA TP is going to be so hrd your brain will melt.  
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Offline mantidor

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RE: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #166 on: March 18, 2006, 04:15:30 AM »
Even if the Wind Waker was complete, it would be just as bashed. People couldnt take the toon shaded for whatever reason and thats all theres to it, the rest is nitpicking. The game isnt as horrible as you are trying to put it, it has its flaws like any game.

The Revolution itself is really bold, which is why I think this "playing it safe" with TP remote functionality is so lame. They should trust their idea to sell!  Not use Zelda to push it a little more.
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Offline RiskyChris

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RE: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #167 on: March 18, 2006, 05:31:28 AM »
Yes, they should release the revolution with no launch games while they're at it.  It should rely only on its built in UI to sell the remote concept.


Or, Nintendo can do every thing in their power to ensure it has the most successful launch since N64.

Offline Kairon

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RE:Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #168 on: March 18, 2006, 05:31:52 AM »
FYI Mantidor, I'm also willing to bash Mjora's Mask. This is not about toon shading, it is about thegame itself.

And with regards to "trusting the Rev" and not letting the Rev benefit it, there is absolutely no benefit to doing that. Nintendo has a powerful resource in TP and they would have to be hubristic and prideful NOT to leverage it for the rev. Now is not the time for Nintendo to get big-headed or blindly cocky about their chances for the future, now is the time to bring all resources to bear because there's no denying it that the next console generation will be a big fight and a big test.

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Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
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Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline odifiend

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RE:Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #169 on: March 18, 2006, 06:06:22 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
The Revolution itself is really bold, which is why I think this "playing it safe" with TP remote functionality is so lame. They should trust their idea to sell!  Not use Zelda to push it a little more.


Zelda at this point would be wasted on the Gamecube and its potential would have been wasted on the cube even last November as well.  The Gamecube was decidedly made the weakest console as a new purchase at the arrival of Halo 2 in the market's eyes.  The only extra cubes Zelda could move after that point are people just buying the system for Zelda (for some reason already didn't have one).  I'm pretty sure that number is close to zero.
Opponents of the decision for forward compatibility are losing nothing with the possible exception of the chance to play the game a couple months earlier.  Say that out loud and realize how childish it sounds.  Those saying that they can no longer enjoy the 'complete' game on the gamecube or that they'll miss out on the Revolution experience because they only have a gamecube - please grow up.  Nintendo does this crap all the time.  GB to GBC, GBC to GBA, Pokemon, Conncectivity - Nintendo is a business who garners increased support for future products by making their cornerstone games forward compatible.  In fact this is the wisest business strategy that they practice consistently.  They know that their rabid fans will adopt immediately and their more casually followers will have some bonus to enjoy when they do eventually upgrade in the future.  People who are truly having an issue with this just aren't sure whether they are casual rabid fans or rabidly casual fans ...
In my opinion, if the cube and revolution hardware is truly so similar, I'd actually advocate that Zelda:TP just be a Revolution game.  Nintendo having cube functionality is a favor to cube owners because it would be a much better Rev launch title.
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Offline mantidor

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RE: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #170 on: March 18, 2006, 06:53:53 AM »
Going in circles again?

You people are making it sound like TP was crucial for the Rev, which would be a terrible, terrible scenario for the future of the console, as has been said, like, a million times, now that I pointed out that, you will say, agreeing with me, again, that Zelda with rev controls wont make or break the revs launch, and we get back to the original point, that this funcionality then really isnt needed.

"FYI Mantidor, I'm also willing to bash Mjora's Mask. This is not about toon shading, it is about thegame itself."

Oh you just have bad taste in games, then ^_^ Majora's Mask is perfect



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Offline RiskyChris

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RE: Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #171 on: March 18, 2006, 06:59:41 AM »
No, a lot of people are saying that TP is an excellent complement to the revolution's launch.  That doesn't "make or break", rather, it "makes or better makes" the launch.

Offline odifiend

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RE:Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #172 on: March 18, 2006, 07:18:55 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
Going in circles again?

You people are making it sound like TP was crucial for the Rev, which would be a terrible, terrible scenario for the future of the console, as has been said, like, a million times, now that I pointed out that, you will say, agreeing with me, again, that Zelda with rev controls wont make or break the revs launch, and we get back to the original point, that this funcionality then really isnt needed.


The functionality is 'needed' so that Nintendo can justify to their blue ocean consumers and other adopters that they should buy Zelda with a Revolution.  Nintendo is ensuring that Zelda, a power system seller, will have a current gen system to sell otherwise they'd be wasting an opportunity- that is my point, which wasn't your point.

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Offline jasonditz

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RE:Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #173 on: March 18, 2006, 07:22:00 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor


Oh you just have bad taste in games, then ^_^ Majora's Mask is perfect


Finally we agree on something. MM was for me the most compelling Zelda experience since the 8-bit days.

WW was a quality title, but after playing and replaying MM to get a 100% complete (Kafei's quest really took awhile for me), WW just felt too darned easy. I loved the cel-shaded look, but I wish they'd offer some optional high difficulty settings.


Offline RiskyChris

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RE:Miyamoto Confirms Revolution Control for Zelda
« Reply #174 on: March 18, 2006, 07:36:51 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: jasonditz
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
I wish they'd offer some optional high difficulty settings.


Like boss fights that don't throw dozens of hearts at you...