Topic: Rumour come True? Zelda: TP Forward Compatible?

[animecyberrat]

well this combined with other recent news makes me wonder if Rev would be coming out in late psring or early summer instead of fall. Seriously if its so close to GC development, as Nintendo already confirms, and if early dev kits are out there, it wouldnt take long to get some kind of games ready in the next few months considering all the unfinished GC games lying around.

I am realy hoping and praying for REv to launch before PS3 and really hoping that may is teh date they chose, I mean why not. They could release game footage and stuff at thie rown special event and save E3 for something else like upcoming REv games and stuff and launch the system sooner than expected to blow peopel away, as long as it doesnt backfire like with Saturn.  

[IceCold]

Hey wow rat, that post was very cohesive - good job!

Mario: Didn't you say that you wouldn't buy any more Nintendo products if there were Rev-exclusive features for TP?

[Mario]

Yes, I am boycotting Nitnendo products for3hoursever, starting NOW!

[Shecky]

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Oh come on...

First I read this on the thread in the GameCube section and replied, then I read it in the official Zelda thread, then HERE!!

And now a talkback thread....

[mantidor]

Im going to scatter my rants all over then, damn you to hell Nintendo if this is true, I really dont like this, Miyamoto and Aunoma and everyone else have been pointing out that this is "the" Zelda game, the most big, compelling, melancholic, whatever you want to add, not to mention "the last of its kind", do you really prefer for them to be expending their time mapping some controller features or actually making the game more big, compelling, melancholic etc with their extra time of development? Its not like we arent going to get a Zelda revolution eventually, it will come and it will fully optimizes the revolution controller, not be the "sparkling innovation 'y" thing that TP revs features will end up being.

[Kairon]

Eh, I trust Nintendo to do whatever they want to do with a Zelda game. They've only ever disappointed me when they've been forced to do things that they felt uncomfortable doing.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Knoxxville]

Hate to say it, but I told ya'll this game would be the "bridge" between the Rev and 'Cube.  I mean, I played it at E3 and there is no way it shouldn't have made it out for the holidays......UNLESS this were to happen.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

What's about kIRBY?!

KIRBY KIRBY KIRBY

[Zach]

Quote
Originally posted by: animecyberrat
well this combined with other recent news makes me wonder if Rev would be coming out in late psring or early summer instead of fall. Seriously if its so close to GC development, as Nintendo already confirms, and if early dev kits are out there, it wouldnt take long to get some kind of games ready in the next few months considering all the unfinished GC games lying around.

I am realy hoping and praying for REv to launch before PS3 and really hoping that may is teh date they chose, I mean why not. They could release game footage and stuff at thie rown special event and save E3 for something else like upcoming REv games and stuff and launch the system sooner than expected to blow peopel away, as long as it doesnt backfire like with Saturn.

I'm wondering about this possiblity too, and hoping its true.  Think about it, this UK magazine just heard that TP was gonna release with the rev, and since rumor has it that the rev wont be coming out until late in the year, they just assumed that TP would be delayed, but what if they are releasing the rev this summer instead.  Consider the options for a minute, if this is true Nintendo would either have to really p*ss off a lot of people by delaying TP AGAIN, or they could blow everyone away by releasing the rev early.

Now as for a may release and having their own event separate from E3, I dont like that idea because E3 is so huge, and all of the gamers from all kinds of systems will be there.  If Nintendo had their own special event for the rev release, it would get a much smaller audience, and only hardcore nintendo fans would show up (people who are already on board for the rev anyway).  At E3 Nintendo can reach a whole lot of people, and maybe convince some 360 and PS3 fans to buy a rev.  Nintendo really needs to stir up some chatter at E3, and the best way to do that is to make a really big show by releasing all the info on the rev.

Edit: This is probably just wishful thinking, but I will keep my fingers crossed anyway.

[Khushrenada]

This is going to sound a bit like Ian and I'm surprised he hasn't posted something like this yet but here goes.

If Nintendo does make TP Rev compatible, then they are really betting that their contorller will be the new standard. The reason is that TP is going to have comparisons made about it between the way it would be controlled on the Gamecube and the way it would be controlled on the Revolution. This will be something similar to the comparisons made on Mario 64 and the way it was controlled on the 64 versus the DS. In that case, many people thought the DS should have had an analog stick and the DS suffered from that comparison abit.

But if the same thing happens with TP and people prefer the Gamecube controls over the Revolution controls, that is going to hurt Nintendo's stance that the Revolution controller is the new standard. It would probably strengthen the idea that the controller is just a sparkling innovation.

Now, what if the Revolution controls are better? Nintendo gets good exposure by people comparing the two types of control and proving that the Revolution is the best way to play games. People who played it on the Gamecube get to play the game with another sense of discovery. But does adding Revolution functionality benefit Nintendo in any other way? Besides people buying it for the Revolution if they didn't for the Gamecube.

To me, Nintendo has more to lose than gain by doing this, although I could be missing something.

[Kairon]

(copied and pasted from the Talkbalk thread)

I'm of the opinion that if Miyamoto saw fit to delay Zelda:TP to add things that he thought were worth the delay, then I'm going to go ahead and trust him.

Oh, and I think that if the Rev launches close enough to TP, then it could very easily benefit from it. The Rev will certainly sell depending on its original games, but if it launches with an amazingly well-polished Zelda game, one that has tons of content, and one that's epic to boot, then that could be nothing but a big 'ol PLUS for Nintendo.

Besides, this could also back hype the Zelda launch, boosting the game's image to next-gen so it can compete markettingwise against whatever else is out there, AND it could ensure a hot image for Zelda due to it being connected to the Revolution as opposed to the now-dying then-dead Gamecube.

I don't see how this could be anything but a plus for Nintendo's marketting strategy. As a Nintendo Fan I'm perfectly content waiting for them to release a game when they want to release it (as long as it comes out, mind you... I'm looking at YOU Band Brothers!). And as someone with interest in the market I can't help but see this as a good move to give the Rev a launch game that the hardcore segment has no choice but to respect gameplaywise.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[mantidor]

Quote
Originally posted by: Khushrenada


But if the same thing happens with TP and people prefer the Gamecube controls over the Revolution controls, that is going to hurt Nintendo's stance that the Revolution controller is the new standard. It would probably strengthen the idea that the controller is just a sparkling innovation.

This is a very interesting point. I see the comparison being unfair, because this game was built with the GC interface in mind, its easily expected that it will be better for the GC controller than the remote. This is a likely problem to happen, people would indeed think of the remote as a gimm!ck because the game isnt made to fully show all what the controller is capable of. This should not be Nintendo's game that shows controller capabilities, that game should be the next Mario/New IP thats being developed.

Thats why I wouldve prefered they had saved their ideas for the upcoming Zelda revolution instead of wasting them in TP.


and you didnt sound like Ian at all , are we talking about the same Ian?

[KDR_11k]

I see the comparison being unfair, because this game was built with the GC interface in mind, its easily expected that it will be better for the GC controller than the remote.

Doesn't have to be. Doom and Quake have been designed for use with the keyboard yet they play even better with the mouse. Perhaps the rod will actually make you more powerful if you use it properly. Sure, that makes the game easier for owners of better hardware but since there is no direct competition I don't think that'd be unfair. And it's not like anyone's been asking for an easier Zelda after Wind Waker...

[Ian Sane]

"This is going to sound a bit like Ian and I'm surprised he hasn't posted something like this yet but here goes."

I posted my thoughts in the talkback thread.  Though I didn't quite make that point.  I agree completely.  Nintendo could be hurt by the Cube to Rev comparison.

"I see the comparison being unfair, because this game was built with the GC interface in mind, its easily expected that it will be better for the GC controller than the remote."

It's also unfair for Nintendo to be viewed as childish or for the Cube to be viewed as having the weakest hardware of the three consoles.  But that doesn't stop those "unfair" thoughts from severely damaging Nintendo's reputation.

"This should not be Nintendo's game that shows controller capabilities, that game should be the next Mario/New IP thats being developed."

Exactly.  The Rev requires a killer app that really sells the concept like how Super Mario 64 sold the analog stick.  It doesn't matter what else gets released for launch, that game is required if the Rev is to succeed.

[Kairon]

I think we're appending too much importance to the Rev controls vs. the cube controls. Is this really the only point against such a move?

Let's not forget that if there's any company that knows how to take a game traditionally under one control system, and translate it to another one, it's Nintendo. They did it with Mario, Zelda AND Metroid. And besides, looking at the Nunchuck setup I don't see any real difficulties in translating the controls. In the GC and Cube, the excess C buttons or satellite buttons were only there for convenience in item switching, a role now probably taken by the D-pad.

That gives the Rec controller 4 action buttons, one 3D gyroscope and an analog stick to append the lock, defend, attack, move functions to. Zelda is almost nearly a one analog stick and 3 button game.

Zelda:TP will be a game that proves that the Revolution can be the home to traditionally epic games. It will give hardcore gamers that sense of security, and it'll give the Revolution a monster title out the front door. Already on GC hardware Zelda:TP looks more than adequate to compete with X360 games of today, and what differences arise in the 6 months to a year between now and then I am fairly certain that most gamers will be satisfied by the games technology. Besides, the game has been said to offer 100+ hours of gameplay, so I think players would be too caught up in the content to worry about how complex the textures are.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Knoxxville]

I'm just gonna leave it up to the gaming gods and remain faithful.  Ninty's gonna do what Ninty's gonna do, and everything is gonna be alright.

My money's on Nintendo.  Unlike the rest of the competition in the video game "arms race" Nintendo doesn't have a games division.....games is all it does and has ever done.  I gotta feeling that this next generation race is gonna go to Nintendo in the end.

[Requiem]

I can't really fathom Zelda with REV controls being anything less than its GC counterpart. I don't think you guys are giving enough credit to Aunoma and Miyamoto. They wouldn't have taken the plunge, assuming they did, if they hadn't known for sure that the outcome would be anything less than spectacular. That's why I see this point, as interesting as it is, as moot.

I'm reluctant to believe that it is in fact debuting fall of next year. That's madness. If it were true, then the delay would total to over a year (1 year and two months to be exact, assuming November). I'm not exactly sure, but that would be the longest delay ever for a Nintendo first party game.

I think a more reasonable outcome is Nintendo hasn't delayed it at all. In fact, I really doubt the REV will come out next fall. The only REAL information regarding the REV's release date was given by ArtX, stating that they were aiming for a summer release. Honestly, I bet that roughly two or so weeks after E3, TP will launch fully-equipped with REV features. A month after that, the REV will start to launch in all territories. This gives them time to re-release the console next christmas season (maybe a new color and SSMB: Online) and rake in even more cash.

[Taken from the Talk-Back forum] [We really need one thread]

You bring up one of the best points Kairon, though I don't think you meant to.

Is Nintendo using Zelda as a template for Action-Adventure games for next-gen? Assuming that Mario, Metriod, and the Camelot RPG (announced well over two years ago) launch with the REV, that's four huge titles in four different genres. And assuming that all four of those games are nothing less than spectacular, couldn't they "show the way" to third-parties trying to do the same thing?

Maybe Nintendo thought it would be too late to show how an Action-Adventure game should truely work on the REV, assuming Zelda REV comes out a couple years after the REV launches. Maybe that's why they added this specific functionalty and are launching so close to the REV.

We've said it before. Nintendo needs to get the ball rolling right out of the gate. It needs to show us how games are revolutionary in many different genres. Zelda can now claim the adventure genre, with the rest following suit.

The more I think about it, the more this move is pure genius!  

[Khushrenada]

All I'm saying is that Nintendo should know that there's going to be comparisons made between the way the game is controlled. They obviously believe in the Rev control that they're willing to do this. And maybe they want people to compare it to the Gamecube controls because they know it will be favorable.

But I do want to respond to something Kairon has said.

"Zelda:TP will be a game that proves that the Revolution can be the home to traditionally epic games. It will give hardcore gamers that sense of security, and it'll give the Revolution a monster title out the front door."

Zelda doesn't prove that Revolution will be home to epic games. Zelda is a Gamecube game. It's being released before Revolution launches. Not with the launch or after. You can argue that with the two being released close together, (provided this news is correct), that Zelda is part of the launch, but I don't consider it as such. It's also going to come in a case marked Nintendo Gamecube not Nintendo Revolution. It will be played first on the Gamecube. You can play it on the Revolution because it is backwords compatible. When an epic game is released for the Revolution and is packaged in a Revolution case, that will prove it is home to epic games.

But that's just some technical points. TP will no doubt be a monster hit and people who buy a Revolution will probably pick up a copy if they didn't own it already. Like Requiem just mentioned, maybe this is a good way to show other companies how to use the Rev remote for games and show people that nothing will be lost in the change of control.

Still, this should not be the game that showcases the Rev control. That should be the next Mario if it gets released in time but that's a different discussion.

Final quick thoughts. Mantidor - I was refering to Ian Sane. He's discussed before about comparisons between Mario 64 and Mario DS and talked about comparisons made between the Rev remote and traditional controls.

Why is that if I type gimm!ck it turns into sparkling innovation?  

[mantidor]

lol because this forums rock! its a censored word like : celda, megaton, m$, etc, etc,

and what I meant is that you lacked the incredibly negative tone present in all of Ians posts

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Khushrenada

Still, this should not be the game that showcases the Rev control. That should be the next Mario if it gets released in time but that's a different discussion.

Don't worry, it won't be, lol.

Personally, I'm hoping that there's a conducting game, a fishing game, a drum/maraca game (can you say Samba de Amigo?) AND a Mario Paint title early on to do exactly that. But that's already wishful thinking on my part.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Requiem]

"Zelda doesn't prove that Revolution will be home to epic games. Zelda is a Gamecube game.

I think your right about this point. Then again, something like this has never happened to a console ever, especially with a game so great and a console so contraversial. Therefore, we cannot pass judgment so quickly. Zelda could very well sell as many REVs as Mario, if marketed correctly, so it being a Gamecube game isn't exactly important. However, the need to prove the Revolution revolutionary is. Zelda can help, and so can the other "real" launch titles. As pissed as some gamecubers might be, they must realize that Nintendo is going all or nothing next generation. It is important they do everything RIGHT from the get go. They cannot afford to make any mistakes unless a greater good is the outcome. Having a great launch is essential. Honestly, if Nintendo wasn't so kind to their fanbase, Zelda would be a launch title with updated graphics and all. But Nintendo made a promise, and they feel obligated to hold it.

Still, they found the best comprimise. Iwata kept saying that Zelda TP was comparable to next-gen graphics, and I think he is going to prove it. I honestly love its graphics and when I compare them to Call of Duty 2, I'd much rather have Zelda's ability to draw you in rather than high textures and poor animation; fanboy or not. If it were to come out near the REV launch, then Zelda WOULD be the "home" for epic games. Graphics don't make it a REV game. If it has REV controls, then that is what makes it a REV game, besides it being released for the cube. Zelda would become the perfect example of how to make a REV adventure work. It will set the bar for all epic games afterwards, in terms of control and gameplay.

"Don't worry, it won't be, lol.

Personally, I'm hoping that there's a conducting game, a fishing game, a drum/maraca game (can you say Samba de Amigo?) AND a Mario Paint title early on to do exactly that. But that's already wishful thinking on my part."

I don't think one game can prove the ability of the REV. I think the entire catalog as a whole must prove the REV. It must better or as good as current setups in every single situation it is put into, be it sports, adventure, FPS, microgames, whatever. A Mario Paint would be great, but it alone won't do much. Mario needs to show exactly how it works for platformers; Zelda for Adventure; Metriod for FPS; and so on. As a collective, they can prove the Revolution revolutionary.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
"Don't worry, it won't be, lol.

Personally, I'm hoping that there's a conducting game, a fishing game, a drum/maraca game (can you say Samba de Amigo?) AND a Mario Paint title early on to do exactly that. But that's already wishful thinking on my part."

I don't think one game can prove the ability of the REV. I think the entire catalog as a whole must prove the REV. It must better or as good as current setups in every single situation it is put into, be it sports, adventure, FPS, microgames, whatever. A Mario Paint would be great, but it alone won't do much. Mario needs to show exactly how it works for platformers; Zelda for Adventure; Metriod for FPS; and so on. As a collective, they can prove the Revolution revolutionary.

QFT

Still, I don't think Nintendo needs a 1.000 batting average to prove the Rev. They need maybe a bunch of decent examples (I list 4 wishful thinking titles, for example) and maybe 2 or 3 great ones to prove that the revolution controller can really be a new standard.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Khushrenada]

Requiem:

"Then again, something like this has never happened to a console ever, especially with a game so great and a console so contraversial."

I smiled at that. It's very true and something I've been thinking to myself as I've been reading this topic. What you said is the thing I've been missing. Nintendo wants to have their A-list franchises at launch of Revolution. That's why Iwata is pushing for Mario 128 and has mentioned Metroid and Smash Bros. as launch titles. Nintendo wants a Zelda title also but it takes a long time to make one and they've been working on TP the whole time. They can't switch Zelda to Revolution because of all the promising they made about it beeing on Gamecube. Thus they decide to add Rev functionality and release them close together. That's not a bad solution.

OK, I've changed my mind. Nintendo probably does have more to gain with adding Rev functionality to TP. But I still stand by my original observation that Nintendo still must prove the Rev controls to be better than the Gamecube controls because this game will probably be the biggest comparison between the two.

Also Requiem:

"I think the entire catalog as a whole must prove the REV."

I agree absolutely with this as well. If you look at the DS there's different games that highlight different features. No one game dictates the way everything should be made for the DS. I'm just saying they need a game that paves the way for what Nintendo hopes to accomplish. Like how Mario 64 showed how 3D platformers could work and how you could control the camera. That doesn't mean Mario 64 was the greatest of all 64 games. Other games took those concepts and and tweaked or added things. Even Zelda OoT took some of the concepts of Mario 64. That's what I mean when I say this should not be the game that showcases the Rev control.  

[IceCold]

I agree that the whole catalogue of games will ultimately make the Rev a success, but there has to be one title that stands out and is a template for all other Rev games. Super Mario 64 was that title. OoT even ran on a modified SM64 engine! So yeah, a good collection won't be possible without one game to rule them all.

[nemo_83]

It would be sweet if Nintendo would at some point offer downloadable patches allowing Cube and N64 games like Metroid Prime and OoT to use the Revolution controller.