Topic: 2-3 Times as powerful as GC true, sez IGN

[Rhoq]

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Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
Why does "not 12 gigs" mean small disc sizes again?

Nah, I'd bet it's just a standard DVD-9. I never bought the whole 12GB capacity disc anyways, unless they were hinting at the Revolution using a 2 sided DVD-14/DVD-18.

[Bill Aurion]

They can only do so much before they really start pissing off their fans.

You mean the fans that don't give a ****?

[pudu]

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Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
So we're supposed to believe that the Rev has less than 128 MB of RAM? Horseshit.

Seriously. It sounds like he's pulling this sh!t out of his ass or the Devs' asses. The ONLY official statement on the graphics is that "they will make you go 'wow!'" and we're supposed to believe the system is going to be uber-underpowered?

Yea makes me wonder if Matt is just enjoying using comments from devs with incomplete specs and kits to paint the picture he wants, while knowing that Nintendo will just let it happen.  On a good note, I hope this is actually enough to force Nintendo to reveal something to counter the negative hype that will follow.  One thing that confuses me is that he says that there will be no difinitive specs about the hardware because Nintendo hasn't sent him any but he also says he will tell us how much RAM there is and that the devs have official documentation.  Either the documentation is of final hardware specs or its not.  If its not then it should be seen as such.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

30cm discs would be AWESOME.

[KnowsNothing]

I'm starting to think that the Revolution will not have graphics.

[pudu]

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
They can only do so much before they really start pissing off their fans.

You mean the fans that don't give a ****?

Yea I guess.  I presume if the difference isn't too vast most fans wouldn't care, but the picture Matt's painting is making it look pretty bad.  I don't think a DS and PSP comparison should be made here, ppl expect different things out of home consoles.  As I've said before, if they console limits itself too much it will suffer because with the new immersive controller ppl will expect to have at least a decent environment with proper physics and detail...  I'm sure a lot of ppl would be upset if they had this great potential with the controller but the games looked so limited when compared to those on the competing consoles.

[Ian Sane]

"Just wait and see. Nintendo's going to go the proprietary route again and probably not offer even the standard DVD9 capacities."

This is something I'm actually not too concerned about.  The Cube discs were a little small but as storage gets bigger and bigger the less you really can do with it.  How big of a game can they honestly make?  With the Playstation there were games that required 4 discs.  It was clear that more space was required and I think Nintendo skimped with the Cube (4 CDs is around 2.7 gigs, in theory one Cube disc couldn't even hold some PS1 games).  But are there any games that really require more than a DVD?  Xenosaga I think but other than that nothing I can think of.  There's going to be a plateau where disc space just isn't an issue anymore.  Plus there's already a big difference between the X360 and PS3 discs in terms of size.  It's not like Nintendo is the odd man out.  The biggest problem with something like disc size is multiplatform games and I think the controller is by far the biggest hurdle regarding that issue.

[mantidor]

what I dont get is how multiplataform is going to be a trouble if theres already a confirmed shell and, you know, GC controllers. Miyamoto even hinted that the accesories wouldnt be expensive and could even be packed in with the games.

[pudu]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Just wait and see. Nintendo's going to go the proprietary route again and probably not offer even the standard DVD9 capacities."

This is something I'm actually not too concerned about.  The Cube discs were a little small but as storage gets bigger and bigger the less you really can do with it.  How big of a game can they honestly make?  With the Playstation there were games that required 4 discs.  It was clear that more space was required and I think Nintendo skimped with the Cube (4 CDs is around 2.7 gigs, in theory one Cube disc couldn't even hold some PS1 games).  But are there any games that really require more than a DVD?  Xenosaga I think but other than that nothing I can think of.  There's going to be a plateau where disc space just isn't an issue anymore.  Plus there's already a big difference between the X360 and PS3 discs in terms of size.  It's not like Nintendo is the odd man out.  The biggest problem with something like disc size is multiplatform games and I think the controller is by far the biggest hurdle regarding that issue.

Yea I forgot about all the reasons why the Rev won't require as much as the other consoles.  The two most important ones I think are:

-SD means that any FMV used will be FAR less in terms of space required (plus Nintendo doesn't usually care much about FMV anyway)
-Revs lesser graphical capablilities probably won't require as much data as far as polys, textures, etc.

[nemo_83]

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Originally posted by: Rhoq

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Originally posted by: nemo_83


Can you imagine the revolution not being around in three years?  Graphics do matter to an extent; a rehashed Gamecube will not sit well with anyone.  Nintendo has their security, the controller; now they can afford to step up and compete power wise with the competition who is using most of their power on resolution rather than actual AI, physics, or polys.

If the console truly is so lacking in ram (AND still has no harddrive forcing you, requiring you whether you have a wifi enabled modem or not, to buy Nintendo's overpriced wifi peripheral to be able to conect your console to your PC to eat up its harddrive to save your downloads; thankyou Nintendo, I almost lost faith in your ability to one up the connectivity blunder from the GameCube) it equals Nintendo having their controller stolen from them and mass marketed by MS and Sony in five years on the big stage.

*Warning - the following is a "Bobby's Dead", season-long dream sequence*

Could it be that the Revolution might not be Nintendo's true next gen-console, but a "fourth pillar"?

Just like how Nintendo keeps insisting that the DS is the "third pillar" and a next-gen successor to the GBA is on the horizon What if the Revolution is to the GameCube what the DS is to the GBA?

The DS and Revolution, respectively, might just be a massive experiment that Nintendo is trying out to see what new ideas work on their hardware and push gaming technology into another direction. I have a feeling that the Revolution is no more that an transitional console and that Nintendo's real Next-Gen gaming machine might come along, 3 years down the road (which by-the-way is the same estimate that had been given for the next GameBoy, if the DS proved to be successful).

Sony has already stated that they are hoping that the PS3's life cycle could be a full decade before introducing the PS4. While Microsoft hasn't really commented on what's after the 360, I think it will be on the market no more than 5 years before the XBox3 comes out.

If Nintendo can introduce a console more powerful than the PS3 in the Fall of 2009, it would gve them the advantage over both the PS3 and the 360. This console would also incorporate the features which proved to work on the DS & Revolution as well as traditional control methods truly making it a "complete gaming experience".

I know this might be a little far-fetched but - one can dream, can't he?

You've just illustrated the nightmare situation I was thinking about.  If that were the case I could afford to skip the Revolution.  Really the whole time with the GameCube I was always suspicious that Nintendo had created the system as something to keep us busy while they worked on something bigger (the next next generation hardware with the next Mario Bros and a revolutionary controller); the whole time I felt the console felt incomplete, the controller lacked innovation, and the fun factor seemed absent from many of their games despite their visual appeal (they felt formulative).  I felt we had had old coke/new coke pulled on us; like they were using reverse psychology releasing games that lacked the Nintendo excellence like Luigi's Mansion and Mario Sunshine.  Now it seems their next system is just a recased GameCube (1.5) with the controller and game that they should have launched four years ago.  I expect more.  

If you think I'm being critical, wait until you hear what MS and Sony fanboys have to say.

[Bill Aurion]

So you are basically admitting you are a graphics whore, nemo?  Because you just outright implied that you don't care about gameplay...

[Ian Sane]

Nemo just said "the fun factor seemed absent from many of their games despite their visual appeal."  I think that means "I like gameplay."

[Bill Aurion]

Now it seems their next system is just a recased GameCube (1.5) with the controller and game that they should have launched four years ago. I expect more.


Yeah, "I like gameplay"...

*squints*

Definitely don't see it here...

[Dirk Temporo]

So IGN's new Retard News is up.

Here

So yeah. Apparently we're supposed to believe that the Revolution is possibly LESS than twice the power of the Gamecube, despite that Nintendo is 100% capable of making it better than that and still keeping the price and power consumption low.  

[Mario]

When you SEE the graphics, you will say "wow".

Sadly we'll probably have to wait til E3. Oh well, back to Mario Kart DS.

[nemo_83]

Not so much a graphics whore, I just believe that a certain level of bandwidth is an entry fee for the next generation.  I don't need bump mapped textures; they don't affect gameplay, especially if you don't have an HD TV, but the bandwidth can be used to load a continent on the ocean all at once in Zelda or a gigantic urban environment for 25,000 Pikmin to creep around in.  

I'm not going to get my hopes up for a miracle GPU or some rumored PPU with dedicated ram just yet, though they would explain a lot; more likely this CPU of Nintendo's may turn out to be dual core in the end (I'd rather the system have a single powerful core as it would be more familiar to developers than parallel coding).

The heartbreak of this is Nintendo is confused.  They see that a weaker system can win, but they fail to see that that scenario has gone out the window as the weaker system only ever wins if it comes out earlier than the more powerful expensive system.  The Revolution will come out a year after 360 and will (if this ign article is correct) not only not be more powerful than 360 but actually weaker.  Nintendo is betting all their money on MS not being a factor; that is what this all comes down to.  They have tunel vision for Sony as bad as MS.  Because Nintendo knows MS can't get a grip on the Japanese market they feel Sony is their only competition as they're counting on being the only alternative to Japanese developers other than Sony as they're the only company other than Sony that can sell systems on both sides of the ocean.  

On the surface it just looks like Nintendo is abandoning American gamers because they know how American third parties are going to view this, they're going to say to themselves that if they put a mature rated game on the console like GTA then the majority of the audience by law will immediately be alienated from being able to purchase the game as the pricing aims the hardware at short people with little money.  They'll say, it'll be like the GC; what few people buy it who are actually gamers will also be the type of gamers who play the other consoles and probably own multiple consoles so why even bother porting it to the Nintendo system.

[Artimus]

Dirk, you should probably mention the GOOD news in that article: 9GB DVDs.

[BigJim]

Some of this "attacking the messenger" is amusing.

Seriously, Nintendo says it's not as powerful as the other systems. Perrin says 2-3x but then retracts it. Developers are saying it's 2x more powerful. Nintendo also says that the Rev could be your second choice for a system, and will be priced accordingly.

What's so hard to believe about this, really? It's not like the clues have been elusive. Are people expecting 360-grade specs for a standard def system?  

[Bill Aurion]

On the surface it just looks like Nintendo is abandoning American gamers

By announcing the importance of first-person shooters in the North American market at TGS during the Rev unveiling?  Ninty hasn't "abandoned" anyone...

They see that a weaker system can win, but they fail to see that that scenario has gone out the window as the weaker system only ever wins if it comes out earlier than the more powerful expensive system.

Where the hell is the evidence behind this?  It has to do with SOFTWARE, not with time released...And once again people don't factor in the fact that this is a completely new form of playing games...This isn't like last gen where Xbox and GC came in a year late with the same functionality...Ninty is coming in with something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT...

[Mario]

Nemo, the tech in Revolution is superior because it detects movement in a 3D space. I'd hardly call that the weaker system.

[KnowsNothing]

This sucks I'm not buying the Revolution.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

COME AND RIDE THE TRAIN[wreck], AND RIDE IT

[mjbd]

I dont doubt that the new news from IGN is accurate.  Nintendo is downplaying the specs because they trully dont think they matter, and I think new info coming out is proving it.   If Nintendo really is going to launch at either $150 or $99, they have a real shot at appealing to the non-gamer audience.  The graphics will not be a selling point for Rev, simple as that.  If your a graphics whore, Rev will not satisfy all of your gaming needs.  Nintendo is done with the console war thing.  Its doing the same thing it did with DS, and thats not to worry about what the competition is doing.  Rev is a souped up Cube in terms of power, which makes those gamecube development kits go a long way with pre-development of software.  Gamecube was designed to be efficient, and Rev is a continuation of that hardware design.  So just because Rev isnt near as powerful as Xbox360, doesnt mean the visuals wont look very nice.  Imagine Metroid Prime Echoes with even better textures, higher polygonal enviorments and characters, and with with a ton of special effects that were left out of the gamecube build; such as bump mapping.  Isnt that going to look very nice?  Rev is all about the new controller and what it can do for gameplay.  If Nintendo didnt believe that the new controller was their ace in the hole, then they would have done the  same thing they did with Gamecube.  I think some of you would feel better about the specs if you downloaded a few videos of RE4 and Doom3, the bare minimum of what developers will be doing on Rev.  

[mjbd]

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
On the surface it just looks like Nintendo is abandoning American gamers

By announcing the importance of first-person shooters in the North American market at TGS during the Rev unveiling?  Ninty hasn't "abandoned" anyone...

They see that a weaker system can win, but they fail to see that that scenario has gone out the window as the weaker system only ever wins if it comes out earlier than the more powerful expensive system.

Where the hell is the evidence behind this?  It has to do with SOFTWARE, not with time released...And once again people don't factor in the fact that this is a completely new form of playing games...This isn't like last gen where Xbox and GC came in a year late with the same functionality...Ninty is coming in with something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT...

I just want to give you props man, cause you see things clearly.  

[IceCold]

One thing I'm really concerned with is multiplatofrm games. If they're developed with HD in mind for the PS3 and 360, they'd have to be scaled back A LOT to be on the Revolution. Those developers won't take the time to make it look good on SD for the Rev - they would just downgrade it quickly and throw it out there. The result would be that, even on a standard definition set, the Rev games would look considerably worse than on the other platforms. Even right now, Cube sports games look worse than on the other systems, and many people take that to mean that the Cube is inferior. The same scenario, except even worse, could potentially happen to the Revolution.

I have no doubt that first party games and exclusives will look great SD, but the Rev definitely isn't a good platform for porting.

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If Nintendo can introduce a console more powerful than the PS3 in the Fall of 2009, it would gve them the advantage over both the PS3 and the 360.

No, then that would just become the next Dreamcast. And I don't want something like that - didn't want it for the GB"E" and I don't want it for this - one system is enough for a cycle.

KN - I'm with you.