Author Topic: The Official IWATAON Speech Thread  (Read 183957 times)

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Online Ian Sane

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RE: The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #525 on: September 15, 2005, 09:23:38 PM »
"if you watch the trailer, there are things you just COULD NOT DO with a two-handed controller"

It wouldn't work quite as well but honestly you wouldn't know the difference because you would have never seen the trailer.  But I DO know the difference when it comes to older games.  I know that this is not even close to the ideal controller design for MANY of my favourite games.

The trailer is pretty cool but it makes the Rev look like the Duck Hunt machine.  Sword swinging, lightgun-style shooting, fly swatting, drumming, etc all look like it would be fun but I don't want a console that focuses on games like that.  Those are gimmicky pick-up-and-play games.  They're the stuff you play when you want to fool around for 15 minutes.  They're the sort of games you play in an arcade.  However a serious gamer sometimes wants to sit down and play an epic for several hours a day for a couple of weeks.  This controller looks very poorly suited for that type of game (except turn-based games).  Those games are what make a console great.  Stuff like Zelda (the REAL Zelda, not a sword fighting game) are the really important games to have on a console, not Donkey Konga or DDR or Time Crisis.  Those are the games you play between the epics.  My suggestion is much more epic-friendly and it would still allow you to play some motion control games, just not quite as well.

If you do the stuff the people in the trailer or doing for an hour straight you're going to be exhausted.

The inability to have games with serious meat to them that could last for weeks is one of the reasons the Virtual Boy was such a flop.  The Rev isn't going to amount to much if its games require you to take breaks while playing.

Offline Artimus

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RE: The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #526 on: September 15, 2005, 09:26:59 PM »
Actually Ian, you're totally wrong. This is perfect for the mother of all epics: the RPG.

Not to mention there's ZERO reason why it doesn't work for long games. You just don't want it to. The problem isn't that it's bad, it's that you don't want change.

You say it's a gimmick, you say it's just a short time-span. How do you know? Ever played one? Why won't a Zelda work with this? An epic Zelda where you have an affect on the world?

The only reason is because you dont' want to.

JUST BUY AN XBOX360 OR PS3 AND LEAVE. What you want isn't happening, so just give up!  

RE:The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #527 on: September 15, 2005, 09:29:43 PM »
For all the naysayers that say this control will not work for the command heavy games of today I have this to say.  I was just thinking and this controller could work for almost any game. Take for example Madden, I think we can all agree that said game uses basically ever button on all the current controllers moreso than your average game. With the current Rev controller, you can issue all the basic commands for Madden.

For running. Analog stick to control the player and showlder buttons will be stiff arm left and right. On the other half of the controller, the A button will be sprint, B to dive, D pad (left) juke left, D pad (right) juke right, D pad (up) shoulder charge, and D pad (down) spin. The gyro could be used to control the QB vision if you want to enable that or EA can work that into whatever scheme it wishes. In seeing this setup, anyone who is a Madden gamer can see how the controller can then also be setup for controlling the QB (passing icons can be B,A, D pad left, right, up, and down) sholder buttons can be pump fake and throw ball away, the click on the analog stick can open and close passing icons.   You can then slightly elevate the control high (and press the button for your corresponding reciever) and you can throw the ball high over the defender.  Lean the control slightly to the right as you pass and it'll place the ball to the side.  I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this, the posibilities are endless.

Anyways, if developers aren't lazy and are smart ( if I can figure out this working setup then I'm sure they can too) they can easily make multiplatform games work on Rev.
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Offline Mario

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RE: The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #528 on: September 15, 2005, 09:29:47 PM »
Ian don't worry, you can still play the games you already own as well! They wont disappear! This is something new, the future!

Offline Dasmos

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RE:The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #529 on: September 15, 2005, 09:32:48 PM »
Can someone please tell what is happening? How does it work? I have been at work!!!
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Offline mantidor

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RE:The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #530 on: September 15, 2005, 09:34:46 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Dasmos
Can someone please tell what is happening? How does it work? I have been at work!!!


the ign video pretty much explains it all

"You borrow style elements from 20yr old scifi flicks and 10 yr old PC scifi flight shooters, and you add bump mapping and TAKE AWAY character, and you got Halo." -Pro

Offline trip1eX

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RE: The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #531 on: September 15, 2005, 09:35:11 PM »
The video is frellin' awesome!!!!!!!!!!!   That type of video will sell sht here in America.  

And as has been said you can sit down in your chair and aim the remote from your lap while using the analog stick.  YOu don't have to go all crazy like the video tho sht like that would be fun.   YOu know some exercise while you play.  

LIke was said too imagine combining the remote with a variation of the dancepad where the dancepad could detect you walking or running on it or even jumping!!!!!!  


Offline Dasmos

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RE:The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #532 on: September 15, 2005, 09:35:41 PM »
I suppose I will check it out then. Look cool nontheless.
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Offline IceCold

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RE:The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #533 on: September 15, 2005, 09:38:53 PM »
Damn Iwataton - I have a busy day tomorrow and it's making me stay up..

Right now, I would like nothing more than to have a test run with this. I just NEED to see how it works and how comfortable and functional it is. Upon first glance, it doesn't seem that comfortable to hold at all when you tilt it for NES games. The Gamecube controller was rounded and moulded perfectly for your hands, and you just wanted to keep on holding it. This one doesn't seem to be anything like that, especially when you're playing with it tilted. It looks long and angular, and not inviting to hold tilted. But, of course, I have to hold it to find out. Another concern for me is it being split for the analogue stick and actual controller. It just seems so, ahh, unstable? If they were connected together it would feel more...I don't know...when you're using the analogue stick in this set-up it seems like you'd have to keep your left hand completely steady to keep it stable, and it doesn't seem to comfortable. If there were some way to connect both parts then it would seem a bit more...solid, comfortable, and you wouldn't have to worry yourself with the analogue stick being fixed in place. I don't know - I'm somehow having trouble voicing my thoughts. Again, ALL of these concerns could be debunked when I get my hands on it, but for now I'm unsure.

OK, on to next topic - how it will function. This game could define multiple genres for the console. Think of ADVENTURE games - wow, it will just make them feel countless times better than on any other console. It's just perfect for adventure games. And RPGs. And FPSs. And RTSs, and quite a few other genres. But it seems to me like it will be quite a bit less functional for some genres like action games and fighters. I know that Nintendo has thought about this, and I'm probably jumping to conclusions, but it doesn't seem like it will cater to some major genres as well as traditional controllers.

Of course, as you guys said, the attachment can fix all of this, but to what extent should all these attachments be released? No one would like to pay extra for them just to play a certain game, and then there's the problem of only part of the userbase having it, which limits developers. It could be packed in with the console or the game, which is a good idea. Pack it in with any game that needs it and price them $10 more w/ the attachment, and a lower priced one for anyone who's got it, but you still then have to pay extra to get the attachment. If they go crazy with attachments and pack them in with games then it will be a disaster.

This brings us to functionality. It has, what, 4 functional buttons with the analogue attachment (not including the D-Pad, which I don't feel should be usd as 4 buttons - maybe only 1). I think they should just add 2 more on either side of the big A button. That solitude A button is just too little, and 2 more buttons won't make it feel more intimidating in any way. I know MP2 was retooled and made possible, but I'm willing to wager that it wasn't intuitive at all. And it was probably a major retooling, which 3rd parties won't undertake. Speaking of 3rd parties - I heard all their niceties, but I have a sinking feeling that it won't translate into heavy hitter franchises. We'll get support from Konami - DISNEY soccer... And Crystal Chronicles, etc. Unless Nintendo makes some deals and seriously concentrates on making their life as easy as possible.

And I know that you won't have to flail the controller around extravagantly, but probably even simple wrist movements over time will really take their toll. But I expect Nintendo has tested this to death, so I don't have concerns there. What I don't want is Mario jumping by tilting it up or slashing in Zelda with the controller. That would just be something that is useless compared to the potential it has.

I have many more thoughts, but I've forgot them now and it's very late - I'll post later.
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Offline mantidor

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RE: The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #534 on: September 15, 2005, 09:41:19 PM »
damn, now Ill only get like only 3 hours of sleep I didnt realized it was already this late!
"You borrow style elements from 20yr old scifi flicks and 10 yr old PC scifi flight shooters, and you add bump mapping and TAKE AWAY character, and you got Halo." -Pro

RE:The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #535 on: September 15, 2005, 09:47:47 PM »
Well I don't have a prob with the Dpad being used as 4 buttons, its placed right where your thumb would be so it would be a shame not to take advantage of it.  I've already explained how this controller can work for Madden so I don't see how it shouldn't be able to work for any other of the current games we have today.

Just think about it though, this current generation is strongly defined by action and fpsers.  To me, it seems like the Rev could be positioned to steal the FPS fanbase hands down and we all know the Xbox lives off its FPSers.  The Rev versions of any multiplatform FPSer is going to be head and shoulders above its counterparts just becuase of this controller.

It all comes down to the developers now, if they dont slack off and actually put some effert into the multi titles then I can see the Rev doing some serious damage to the other system's marketshare.
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Offline The Omen

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RE:The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #536 on: September 15, 2005, 09:49:36 PM »
Quote

You kinda answered your own question. I speculate because we don't know the dynamics. It's not even fair to say I am speculating. The points I raise are natural for this kind of change. What I am really doing is asking for more information. I don't assume Nintendo's way is the best way.


I don't assume it's the best way either...if MS released this, I would say the same thing-I can't wait to try it.  All I'm saying is, no use in worrying about the negatives until after you actually get a feel for it.    
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Offline IceCold

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RE:The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #537 on: September 15, 2005, 09:59:20 PM »
I tried using the closest remote control I could find to test it out tilted, but I couldn't really get a feel for it.

Oh right, and I don't like the idea of re-releasing SNES, 64 and GCN controllers much. That's even more extras, and I don't know; I just don't feel it's necessary.

I think that they'll modify the controller to make it a bit more comfortable and maybe a bit shorter. Then they might add a button or two strategically placed. And finally, they'll add rumble and the rechargeable option.
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Offline mantidor

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RE: The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #538 on: September 15, 2005, 09:59:26 PM »
Oh my God...

I just realized something terrible... the control scheme for Metroid Prime shown in the hands on impressions will SUCK for left handed people now I have to use my not dominant hand to make the movement that requirs the most precision  in the game ¬_¬ I cant use my left hand since the analog is meant to be used with the left hand, and if they release a right hand analog it will suck for other games who arent like MP, since it will be basically having to swap the current gen controller, and no, Im NOT going to buy two analogs, one left handed and one right handed...



who am I kidding? Ill probably wil  buy both agh, this sucks...
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Offline ThePerm

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RE: The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #539 on: September 15, 2005, 10:01:45 PM »
ever played an fps with a  mous?  You use your left hand to strafe and move  and  your right hand to aim...im left handed and im used to it.....though i always had problems with metroid hunters demo. cus the stylus cord isnt long enough to thumb it with your left.  I think within  the n ext few days i will physically make my own rev  controller.
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Offline BigJim

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RE:The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #540 on: September 15, 2005, 10:02:22 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: The Omen
Quote

You kinda answered your own question. I speculate because we don't know the dynamics. It's not even fair to say I am speculating. The points I raise are natural for this kind of change. What I am really doing is asking for more information. I don't assume Nintendo's way is the best way.


I don't assume it's the best way either...if MS released this, I would say the same thing-I can't wait to try it.  All I'm saying is, no use in worrying about the negatives until after you actually get a feel for it.


That's fair enough. I'm ready and willing to give it a shot. I think I come from a similar school as Ian, though (good, bad, or indifferent ). As negative as it may seem, I'm just passionate and want Nintendo to succeed. I don't think any of us want to see any serious blunders in the name of being different. This could turn out to be great for gaming. We'll see.

I also thought of something else. The demos should demonstrate that all the projection, hologram, and other crazy BS rumors was just that... This is a standard console, it just has a Tivo-pod for a controller.
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Offline blackfootsteps

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RE: The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #541 on: September 15, 2005, 10:02:47 PM »
I'm left handed aswell, so I've thought some about this.

You've played Timesplitters right? You probably did ok with your right hand controlling the aiming in that? Look at all the backwards right handed people, it took them a bit longer to come to grips with the analog stick than us lefties back in the 64 era but they learnt eventually.  
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Offline MANTI5

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RE:The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #542 on: September 15, 2005, 10:03:02 PM »
Hate to be so negative, but some of these are too funny.

http://ytmnd.com/list/?search=revolution

Offline ThePerm

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RE: The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #543 on: September 15, 2005, 10:03:57 PM »
another thing is that  to controll the camera..you dont  need  to take  your thumb away from the face buttons you just move the controller.

Funny how i sort of didnt know it would look like a control..but we all pretty much figured  two  things gyro+detatch
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #544 on: September 15, 2005, 10:05:39 PM »
I still haven't figured out how some N64 or cube games could play on this...  

Offline mantidor

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RE:The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #545 on: September 15, 2005, 10:11:17 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ThePerm
ever played an fps with a  mous?  You use your left hand to strafe and move  and  your right hand to aim...im left handed and im used to it.....though i always had problems with metroid hunters demo. cus the stylus cord isnt long enough to thumb it with your left.  I think within  the n ext few days i will physically make my own rev  controller.


shame on you for not using the mouse as a left handed I play fps constantly on my PC, but of course, with the mouse on my left hand, as its suppose to, we shouldnt have to "adapt", we should use whats more confortable, and mouse in the left hand for lefties is indeed more confortable!

Using the analog stick with the right hand is one thing, you have some physical support, but the rev's controller doesnt, I cannot even use the TV remote with the right hand, the rev controller is meant to be waved in thin air, Im trying it right now and I cant really be precise or accurate, Im terribly clumsy with my right hand  (yeah Im very uptight about my left handedness, sorry)

Well, I hope Nintendo will figure it out, Miyamoto is left handed afterall, that has to count for something, right?


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RE:The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #546 on: September 15, 2005, 10:17:33 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ShyGuy
I still haven't figured out how some N64 or cube games could play on this...


Don't think too hard. That's why GC controllers can plug into the Rev.

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Offline Rancid Planet

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RE: The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #547 on: September 15, 2005, 10:23:31 PM »
JEEBUS!!!1one

I just read every single post in this entire damn thread! I should get a freaking medal or something. Oh and thanks to all of you that posted for around a year and a half before the Iwata speech started. You guys suck. Eat it. Anyway...

I know everyone is just dying to hear what I have to say because I am so freaking great so I won't keep it from you any longer. (I hear people asking "who the hell is THIS guy?" right now)

-------------------------------

The part where I brag on Ninty: Big balls Nintendo. BIG ones. You promised to deliver something totally out of left field and you did just that. So kudos to you Nintendo. You rocked the sock off my c0ck. And that's a BIG sock.

But let me get down to bizniz here. This controller is really something special. Is it different? YES. Will it encourage developers to think outside the box? (XBOX joke intended) YES. Does it have flaws that are obvious as hell? YES. And most importantly, does it further establish Nintendo, our beloved corporate entity, as the ONE console maker out there that really wants to take gaming to a whole new place, not just TALK about doing it? HELLS YES SILENT BOB!

This controller (if you're a REAL Nintendo fan, i.e. you love Nintendo because of their innovation, not just some bogus nostalgia you have for your lame ass childhood) should make you PROUD. Proud to be a gamer, proud to be alive and playing games at a time when gaming has become so mainstream that every knucklehead with the newest copy of Madden thinks of himself as "hardcore"...and to see that very guy look crosseyed at the Rev controller and ask "Howmy gunna play ReVEnGEe of HAlOKILLERZ III: THE BLOODENING on dat THANG???!!"

Seriously, this should please you all. If it doesn't, too bad. No soup for you! This controller freaking CEMENTS the fact that I have been trying to get into opposing fanboys' heads for years. That Nintendo are about more than just MAKING games, they are about TAKING games. Taking them forward, taking them to some place that we never thought they might go. Taking games out of the mainstream and back into the lap of the "true" gamer. The one that could beat ANY Adventure/RPG/Platformer/Fighter/Racer/Sports title with his damn eyes glued SHUT.

Yes friends. This is for US. The real gamers. The ones that have been (perhaps only silently) bitching and complaining that NOBODY challenges us anymore. To HELL with that "There is plenty of life left in the current way of making games" argument. Get off my boat. THIS boat is going somewhere that will scare and frighten you. And I, for one, am ALL for it.

------------------------------

Problems and Contridictions: There are a few. For one, as Ian Sane and a few other, shall we say, "less elequant and more irratating than Ian Sane" posters have pointed out. This controller is a bit TOO complex is some ways and not nearly advanced enough in others. BUT, we should take some time, breathe a deep relaxing breath, and remember that Nintendo stated that this is NOT the final design and that   they ARE actively making new attachments for it.

Now do I WANT to have to buy extra crap just to play a standard game? HELLS NO SILENT BOB! I want what most of you want. Built in abilities to both utilize the unique features of Nintendo's latest concept AND be able to keep it simple and standard when need be.

My suggestion? I think Nintendo should round off the corners of the "remote" add at least a few buttons to the thing and call it a day. Other than that, keep it "as is". As Ian Sane has said already, quite smart there Ian, Nintendo obviously have a battle plan for this thing so I wouldn't want them to screw with the controller so much that they have to reconstruct their concept too much. That would only mess things up for us as we would get a less complete system concept and probably a Rev pushed back to the start of the NEXT next generation.

So bottom line, the controller RAWKS. The naysayers are TEH SUK and Nintendo just totally energized me about games all over again. I didn't think they could do that but they did. I should have known better than to doubt their courage. So in apology I will simply BELIEVE IN THEM enough to think that they will address the few major issues that are apparent with their little controller in due time and that all we be right upon the system's realese.

---------------

I have no ending for this, the best post in this WHOLE DAMN THREAD, so I simply leave you with a hardy...LONG LIVE NINTENDO!



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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE: The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #548 on: September 15, 2005, 10:29:10 PM »
For a second there, Rancid Planet, you almost had the energy and presence of the great Reggie himself.

I am in awe.
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: The Official IWATATON Speech Thread
« Reply #549 on: September 15, 2005, 10:47:25 PM »
Hm, if they could bundle a wavebird-like controller with this package for backwards compatibility, that would be nice.

Things I noticed: in the Rev video on IGN the lower a & b buttons are called X and Y, seems like they are planning on utilizing these buttons in vertical control as well as the sideways NES thing. This would makes sense for secondary buttons, like reloading, swapping weapons, using a power up, etc.

Also, the two triggers on the analog attachment are Z1 and Z2. add a C, L and R on there someplace and we'll have the Nintendo controller alphabet.