Topic: Uncalled for use of force? I think so.

[Dirk Temporo]

This is bullsh!t. At a rave party in Utah, called Versus 2, SWAT police, decked out in full body armor, toting assault rifles, and launching tear gas, stepped WAY over the line of proper police behavior. The party was completely legal, with permits acquired, and on private property.

At the very beginning of the raid, the police ordered that ALL the equipment be shut off completely, not just the music stopped. Almost right after, they ordered to be given the microphone to speak to the crowds, despite that they had just ordered everything shut off.

Numerous people were beaten, and had attack dogs set on them, despite the fact that most of them were not doing anything wrong. Multiple people were beaten and arrested merely for asking "What's going on?"

People who were videotaping what was happening were ordered to hand over their cameras, or face arrest. They weren't just ordered to shut the cameras off, they were ordered to give them to the police, or put them on the ground and leave.

Such events are a CLEAR violation of personal rights, and frankly, I'm disgusted by this.

Video of event+police raid

Eyewitness reports, including reports of police brutality

Police side of the story, complete with irrelevant evidence, and bullshit about no permit

I don't even know what to say about this except, "F***ing bullsh!t."

[KDR_11k]

What do those idiots think they are? The SA? Bah, dishonourable discharge and jailtime are appropriate measures here!

[nemo_83]

We need a politics board.  I assume this topic will get locked or at least what I am about to say will get me in trouble.


definition of a terrorist:  someone or some organization that creates a state of fear and terror

[Nile Boogie]

That is a shame. Although I don't have all the facts my experiences here in Philly leads me to believe that the police, more than likely overreacted. It's part of law enforcement training for them to never underestimate how bad situation is. Happens all the time.  Indeed, "What's going on?"

[stevey]

"The party was completely legal, "

yeah right all rave party are filled with stoner doing weed, zing, acid, coke, meth, upper, shroom, or what ever drug there on. so thumbs up to this raid  

[ib2kool4u912]

That's horrible. Even if they didn't obtain the proper permits that is still way out of line for a non-violent party. How exactly are they trying to justify aiming assault rifles, tasering, and attacking people with dogs? Didn't obtain paperwork? How do those people sleep at night?  

[Hostile Creation]

Dude, they're ravers.  They deserve it.

[The Omen]

They're taught anytime they enter a situation where drug use is prevelent, they have to be more forceful because of the unknown factor.  Anything can happen when people are all meth'd up.  Did they become overzealous?  Definitely.  Is it so unheard of?  Absolutely not.  It happens everyday.  You have no rights, and never truly did.  Get used to it.

By the way, how can one get permits for a rave?  That's just inviting a bunch of drug heads to party out in public.  Not smart.  I can't even get a permit to have a barbecue/get together.  Or maybe, they were given the permits just so the police could bust them up... bottom line is this: When it seems too good to be true, it definitely is.  I would not have been caught at any outdoor party that required a permit, because one: They know where you are, and they know what you're planning.  And two, having poeple under twenty one anywhere outdoors after a certain time, drinking...I might as well put myself in jail.

[Dirk Temporo]

Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
"The party was completely legal, "

yeah right all music events of any kind are filled with stoner doing weed, zing, acid, coke, meth, upper, shroom, or what ever drug there on. so thumbs up to this raid

You're right, they are!

My point is the uneccessary use of force. At least three people who have told their stories had the crap kicked out of them, and they didn't do anything. They were clean of drugs, weapons, and alcohol.

The permit thing: In Utah, you need a permit to host a gathering larger than 250 people.

Even the people who were ON drugs weren't resisting. A couple people, the police didn't even tell to get on the ground. They just set an attack dog on them, knocked them to the ground, kicked them a few times for good measure, and finally arrested them. Still didn't read them their rights though.

Nobody there was going to resist at all, the rave community is one of the most peaceful ones you'll meet. And as for the people on drugs, allow me to quote from another forum...

"The fact that any force was used to proof enough for unnecessary use of force. Everyone knows catching a druggy is the easiest thing ever.

All you have to do is ask them an algebra problem and they won't even run."

With the amount of force they used, you'd think that everyone there was pumped up on PCP.

[King of Twitch]

Most Outrageous story since they stormed into someone's house just to deport a child back to Cuba.

[Dirk Temporo]

Statement from promoters (hosts) of the event:

http://forums.utrave.org/showthread.php?t=20191

[Pale]

Do me a favor and put yourself in the shoes of the cops for just a second...

Now, you are busting up a drug filled party out in the middle of nowhere....

Ok...

You there yet??

Ok...

How would you have done it?

Excuse me sir, could you please pull the syringe out of your arm and step over here so I can put these handcuffs on you?  I am not carrying any means of protecting myself.  Since you are one of those peacful rave people I know there is no chance that you are hiding a gun or knife.  Everything is happy.  

[The Omen]

Quote
Excuse me sir, could you please pull the syringe out of your arm and step over here so I can put these handcuffs on you? I am not carrying any means of protecting myself. Since you are one of those peacful rave people I know there is no chance that you are hiding a gun or knife. Everything is happy.

That's what I was trying to say.  I mean, these guys are trained to face the worst possible reaction, because it does happen often.  I think most of the uproar was that they didn't really give a chance to just clearing the place out.  I understand why they didn't, but it appears really bad on video.

[KDR_11k]

They could have approached it a LOT more diplomatic. Besides, they tried to nail em for lack of permits. Permits which the party DIDN'T lack.

[Nile Boogie]

No win situation. I know first hand from both points of view. My military mind understands the cops but I still don't agree with those type tactics against people who have shown no sign of resistance. I live in the birth place of dirty cops and shandy law enforcement (PHILADELPHIA POLICE ARE THE WORST, ASK AROUND).  I'm also sure that while the ravers were the "victims", there was probably more than enough A.T.F. for the law to get antsy about.

[Bloodworth]

Yeah, this is probably not something we want to talk about on PGC.