Author Topic: Revolution Eschews High Definition (Read 22169 times)

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #25 on:** June 14, 2005, 07:51:37 AM »

I wonder how much money Nintendo feels will be spent on HD compatiable hardware and software.

The Hardware I really think is minium. I don't see it adding more than $50.00 to add the connections to allow HD connections...and in a year it may be in less.

So I wonder how much of this is a software decision. I am not quite sure how textures and software art works but HD could vastly be more expensive.

As I said. I believe this isn't just a hardware price concern, but I believe Nintendo is trying to keep software prices down as well.

10 extra dollars a game doesn't seem like much But I am not willing to buy a game for 69.99-79.99 dollars a game compared to the 49.99-59.99 of new games.

Now imagine if Nintendo is actually trying to get games CHEAPER. Imagine if Revolution games were easy enough to develop that you could sell them for 39.99-49.99 a new game. That price difference is huge!!! I could easily afford to buy 2 games a month compared to 1 game a month or so I buy now.

Now imagine trying to attract the nongamer and casual gamer. Are they going to buy the system for $200.00-250.00 system with games between 39.99-59.99 compared the the $300+ system (more like $350.00) and games costing 69.99-79.99??

I think this logic is one reason why the Nintendo DS is doing well still. The DS is priced at a much friendlier price point for the system and the games.

Gaming is still not essential to life. I can completely live a happy life without gaming. Therefore, prices and quality of games are important to me. Nintendo has my dollar because they are trying to keep prices low and give me bonuses like downloadable classic games. Sony and Microsoft are pricing themselves out of my dollar because I just can't afford their gaming prices.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #26 on:** June 14, 2005, 08:00:53 AM »

"Nintendo's success is based on one thing and one thing alone: whether or not they can make the next Mario 64."

Well I'll agree that's probably the most important thing. At least this isn't like cartridges on the N64 where they had two huge killer apps but couldn't follow up on them. If Nintendo has a game on the Rev that really catches fire the lack of HD support won't screw them over. My big complaint is that this is another short-sighted oversight from a company infamous for them.

Plus I don't really have enough faith in Nintendo to deliver the next Mario 64. I think Nintendo is very talented but games that have the impact that Mario 64 had are very rare. It's not something they could just sit down and intentionally design and base the Rev's success on it. Realistically no one can do that. Half of the time killer apps like that come by complete accident. Nintendo is far too calculated right now to bust out a killer app like that. They're too focused on sequels and are trying too hard to innovate. They still make great games of course but they don't currently have the right mindset to make a killer app. So to keep things running smooth until a killer app arrives I feel that have to be very competent and not give people excuses to not buy Revs. That means not removing a feature the competition is offering just to save 50 cents.

Plugabugz · « **Reply #27 on:** June 14, 2005, 08:07:26 AM »

Can someone please explain where this 50 cents figure came from?

From an economic standpoint, if it's new then the price for high definition equipment will definitely be high. Existing HD equipment may be cheap, but the new NEW ones at the top end of the scale. What's to say including this won't increase the costs of production by 30%?

Not that this means anything to me. Being in Europe means WE'RE THE NEGLECTED PEOPLE OVER HERE REMEMBER US?!!!!!

PaLaDiN · « **Reply #28 on:** June 14, 2005, 08:16:48 AM »

The 50 cents figure may be valid but the people using it are being retarded as far as I can make out.

If adding the feature is merely a matter of 50 cents then Nintendo would up the price of the console by 50 cents. They're not that stupid. There's a reason for the omission but the 50 cents isn't it.

It's probably just a matter of space... that thing is small.

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #29 on:** June 14, 2005, 08:27:47 AM »

Ian Sane: Nintendo is already releasing the Revolution with a killer feature that should bring all hardcore gamers into the Revolution camp. 100% legal Nintendo classics from every generation.

Nintendo could have released a new version of the Gamecube with this feature and it would have immediately sold twice as many units as the Cube has sold now.

If Nintendo is able to deliver with Mario Revolution, Super Smash Brothers Revolution, and Metroid Prime 3, and finally that new IP game that is being prepped for launch then Nintendo will have a successful launch with or without 3rd party support.

This whole idea that HD is important and deal breaker is silly. When Microsoft announced this new generation the HD generation we all laughed at how stupid it sounded...yet now Nintendo is laughing and acting according to our logic and we are dooming Nintendo.

And lets not assume we actually know how much more it costs to add HD to the hardware, and then into the costs of developing games...because we just don't know. It is obviously enough that Nintendo is second guessing its importance.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #30 on:** June 14, 2005, 08:43:45 AM »

"Ian Sane: Nintendo is already releasing the Revolution with a killer feature that should bring all hardcore gamers into the Revolution camp. 100% legal Nintendo classics from every generation."

That's a cool feature but Nintendo needs more than that to sell to the hardcores. I like the idea but realistically I will probably rarely use it since I own most classic games I'm interested in. I would assume that most hardcores would also already own their favourite NES, SNES, and N64 games. So while the feature is great it's not enough to ensure huge success. I see at as extra incentive to buy a Rev but not the main reason. But then I thought hardcore gamers wouldn't put up with GBA ports either and they seemed to gleefully pay full price for them so perhaps I'm in the minority on that issue. Let's put it this way. I don't want the Rev to sell consoles based solely on this feature because then it will just be a nostalgia machine.

"When Microsoft announced this new generation the HD generation we all laughed at how stupid it sounded...yet now Nintendo is laughing and acting according to our logic and we are dooming Nintendo."

I laughed at how stupid it was for MS to FORCE devs to support HD with all games. Forcing developers to NOT use HD is just as stupid.

BigJim · « **Reply #31 on:** June 14, 2005, 08:49:17 AM »

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Originally posted by: stevey
This for me is good news. I hate HD television, there just a scam. Intel they make a HD TV the size of a non HD TV at near the same price or under grand I'm not buying. HD is not this or next gen but next next gen

Are you in the US? Go to BestBuy.com. You can get a 27" HDTV for $330. Pricing parity is not as far off as some people seem to think.

31 Flavas · « **Reply #32 on:** June 14, 2005, 11:28:19 AM »

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Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Quote
Originally posted by:
Perrin Kaplan, VP, Marketing & Corporate Affairs, Nintendo of America

"We have thoroughly considered the best means of video output for the system and are dedicated to delivering the best hardware possible to meet the demands of our consumers."
Isn't HDTV the "best means of video output for the system" and the "best hardware possible"? What do they mean by "best"? Is there something better? Or is the keyword "possible"?

What I suggest is that Nintendo looked at the video out options available and instead of coming to Microsoft and Sony's conclusion that Hi-Def has to be included 'for fear of losing customers'. Nintendo might have came to the conclusion that while HD would be nice it doesn't offer enough bang for the buck, yet. Since Sony and Microsoft position themselves, more so then not, as 'hardcore' gaming systems, they can't afford to pass up "new" technology. They might look inferior otherwise. Nintendo on the other hand doesn't need to make that decision since they focus on how well a game plays and how much fun it is to play a game, rather then just best graphics / best specs.

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Why in the hell did Nintendo have a press release to say they wouldn't have a feature? With online they just let consumers figure it out for themselves. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit with Nintendo's MO. People say Nintendo is stupid but there's a certain consistent kind of "stupidity" they indulge in, and this is not it. I don't get it.

Myself i'd say it fits perfectly. Nintendo's strength is its game making capabilites, right? Unless you are a 'diehard' Nintendo fan you don't buy any Nintendo console or handheld because they out spec the competition. You buy Nintendo hardware because it has games you can't get on either "superior" system. So to me, rather then making Nintendo look 'out-of-touch' it solidifies to me that Nintendo is in touch with what their core (not hardcore) gamers want. Very similar to how a Microsoft press statement about supporting Live!, HDD, 5.1, and Hi-def would reassure "you" that a Microsoft system is what "you" want.

With "you" of course, not literally being you, PaLaDiN, but anyone interested in what Microsoft has to say.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #33 on:** June 14, 2005, 11:34:35 AM »

"So to me, rather then making Nintendo look 'out-of-touch' it solidifies to me that Nintendo is in touch with what their core (not hardcore) gamers want."

So Nintendo is pleasing their fans by providing less options now? If Nintendo is in touch with what their core gamers want then their core gamers must be a very small group. That would also mean that a large percentage of this forum are not part of Nintendo's core gamers.

31 Flavas · « **Reply #34 on:** June 14, 2005, 12:02:13 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane

So Nintendo is pleasing their fans by providing less options now?

Honestly Ian.... is there any doubt that Twilight Princess won't be a massive seller? So how much would HD really increase sales of that game? Very few, since many do not own HD tv yet. As much as you many not want to admit it, Hi-Defintion is not a core feature yet. It's not going to increase sales that much because it is a hardcore feature. If you need 'hardcore' gaming, i'm sure Nintendo would point you to Microsoft and Sony. Their bussiness is making core games, games that don't cater to only the hardcore, but to everyone. You can't tell me you're only going to buy Twilight Princess only because it is a visually impressive game. Or to put it another way.... Do you honestly think Nintendo will try to out spec the PSP (or PSP2) with whatever the GBA's successor is? Hell no.

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #35 on:** June 14, 2005, 12:33:40 PM »

Ian: Its not that Nintendo is giving us less options just because. That added extra costs money in hardware, and probably adds cost to software development that will increase the prices of games.

Nintendo has stated it is trying to limit the price increases in gaming. That means hardware prices and software prices.

Nintendo is giving its core base an advanced gaming system that doesn't break their bank, and it is offering a system to 3rd party developers (Large and most importantly Small) a system that they can make games at a more affordable development costs.

All these things point to me to a Nintendo that is looking at an option. HD support. They are weighing the benefits/costs and deciding what direction to take.

To Nintendo, and also to me...anything that makes gaming cheaper makes me happy.

Nintendo may alienate a few of its fans, but those fans are not going to leave, because the fans love Nintendo for their games. Only when Nintendo fails to create fun games will Nintendo begin to lose its fans.

Now, Nintendo can actually win more marketshare by being cheaper not only in hardware, but in games.

And finally, if you think the NES/SNES/N64 backwards compatability is nothing you will be amazed. Most people do not keep all their systems and classic games. Most people also do not download emulators and ROMS and have those games on the computers...so when Nintendo launches the Revolution the download service is going to be huge.

I predict that service will be even bigger than Nintendo is planning it to be. And the more Nintendo can make deals to get 3rd party games on the service the bigger and better the results will be for everyone. I also predict original games to be created and able to be downloaded from small developers. These developers will use the download service so they can avoid the production costs of packaging and distribution.

Sir_Stabbalot · « **Reply #36 on:** June 14, 2005, 12:40:36 PM »

Meh. I still don't see (and probably will never see) what's so great about HDTV. The ones big enough to show any difference cost over $1,000, and the cheap ones hardly look any different at all. Heck, I only know one person with an HDTV, and they don't even play games!

Ian Sane · « **Reply #37 on:** June 14, 2005, 01:10:16 PM »

"Honestly Ian.... is there any doubt that Twilight Princess won't be a massive seller?"

What does this have to do with anything?

"Ian: Its not that Nintendo is giving us less options just because. That added extra costs money in hardware, and probably adds cost to software development that will increase the prices of games."

Nintendo can just not use the port themselves and let third parties do whatever they want. So Nintendo's games can stay at $50 and if third parties want to charge $60 they can and risk competing against Nintendo's cheaper alternative.

ruby_onix · « **Reply #38 on:** June 14, 2005, 02:16:33 PM »

My main problem with this whole thing is that...

We really don't know the first thing about the very nature of the Revolution.

Nintendo refuses to speak about it. So how are we supposed to know if this is a good thing or a bad thing?

Is the Rev a hologram generator? Or does it have some other form of alien video? It seems unlikely, but if it does, it would make sense that this doesn't work with "HDTV". It would have to work with a regular TV (and maybe progressive scan) when it's in "NES/SNES/N64/GCN mode". Which would give Nintendo the chance to make some cruel jokes. There's no such thing as "bad publicity".

Or does the GameCube have a "wireless" TV connection, which Nintendo thinks is the coolest thing ever (and maybe it is), but it isn't up to the task of HDTV support? If that's the case, I'd say that (like the WiFi thing) Nintendo should just put a freaking port on the back of the unit, in order to satisfy everyone. It's cheaper than lost console sales.

Or is the Rev a revised "GameCube 1.5", basically a GameCube with bigger capacity media, a kickass online and backwards-compatibility plan, and a new controller that will reshape the entire videogame industry. All for the low price of $99! And, as we all know, Nintendo is a cheap bastard, and they cut the progressive scan support from the Cube because they did such an abysmally poor job in selling it. So it stays cut from the GCN 1.5.

We really have no idea what's going on. Nintendo's going into this blind, because of their addiction to secrecy. Nintendo might be making some horrible mistakes, the kind where it might have been a good idea to get some feedback first, but we just have to trust that Nintendo's not capable of doing that (LOL!), and that they've got something in the works that's going to be amazing, and can take people's interest from zero to sixty in a timespan fast enough to matter.

Savior · « **Reply #39 on:** June 14, 2005, 02:48:32 PM »

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think Nintendo will try to out spec the PSP

The Next GB, was rumored to be using Gamecube architecture. If true then its ovbiously more powerfull than a PSP.

Anyways. Matt has an email NOA on this now... So its bound to get something done.

Bloodworth · « **Reply #40 on:** June 14, 2005, 04:36:14 PM »

Nintendo's biggest motivation is in limiting the cost of developing games at those resolutions. They're likely also concerned about the performance trade-off. The problem is that they're once again acting like they're leading the industry. They think they're doing licensees a favor by keeping the costs low, but they don't seem to take into account the concept that games like Madden will be put on their competitors' systems as well, and as such, EA will have already spent that money.

31 Flavas · « **Reply #41 on:** June 14, 2005, 07:01:27 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
My main problem with this whole thing is that...

We really don't know the first thing about the very nature of the Revolution.

Nintendo refuses to speak about it. So how are we supposed to know if this is a good thing or a bad thing?

Oh they've talked about Revolution the console, just only in clues and riddles. My working guess is that there are multiple "revolutions". 1) Something regarding their controller 2) Something regarding Revolutions design/connections (and not just wi-fi everything) 3) "But, the advantage in our technology will also relate to areas that have no direct bering on gameplay" 4) Rather uninteresting to us but easy and low cost development 5) "Those of you who consider the possibilites of combining (?? ebident? can't figure out this word) content with an internet connection and a wireless connection and our flash memory, may begin to make educated guesses on what game experience we might be constructing."

Regarding the controller Reggie gave a hint and said, more or less, take a look at the NES, SNES, N64, and Gamecube controllers. Then said how are we (Nintendo) going to accomidate for those and revolution on a single controler? And regarding 2 - 5 those are taken from Satoru Iwata's E3 2005 presentation.

nitsu niflheim · « **Reply #42 on:** June 15, 2005, 06:11:09 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
This for me is good news. I hate HD television, there just a scam. Intel they make a HD TV the size of a non HD TV at near the same price or under grand I'm not buying. HD is not this or next gen but next next gen

Are you in the US? Go to BestBuy.com. You can get a 27" HDTV for $330. Pricing parity is not as far off as some people seem to think.

And what kind of HD is it though? Is it HD Ready or Built in, because just because a TV is HD doesn't mean that you are going to get the benifit of the High Definition right out of the box. There's a 3rd kind of HD for TV's but I can't remember exactly what it is at the moment. For me, when I go to get a new TV, I'm going to get a HDTV with HD built in, because I won't have to buy any extra equipment or accessory to get a High Definition signal properly (I think).

nolimit19 · « **Reply #43 on:** June 15, 2005, 06:32:10 AM »

this is somewhat demoralizing...but i guess nintendo knows what its doing...

Bloodworth · « **Reply #44 on:** June 15, 2005, 08:29:41 AM »

Just like they knew what they were doing by making you buy component cables online instead of in the store when you buy your system, right?

31 Flavas · « **Reply #45 on:** June 15, 2005, 09:34:13 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Bloodworth
Just like they knew what they were doing by making you buy component cables online instead of in the store when you buy your system, right?

Virtually no stores would carry them even if Nintendo did. Don't forget how 3rd rate the Gamecube is considered to be.

Edit: If there was real demand for the componet cables Nintendo would know because differnt people would keep order them, and they are the only place to order them. But apparently no one did order them even when the connector was still sold with new Gamecubes. Further backing up their position, and mine, that HD is not necessary, yet.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #46 on:** June 15, 2005, 09:47:32 AM »

"Virtually no stores would carry them even if Nintendo did. Don't forget how 3rd rate the Gamecube is considered to be."

The fact that the Cube is considered "3rd rate" proves Bloodworth's point that Nintendo doesn't always know what they're doing.

"If there was real demand for the componet cables Nintendo would know because differnt people would keep order them, and they are the only place to order them."

This is total Nintendo logic. Next you'll tell me there was no demand for Cube online games because of poor broadband adapter sales.

vudu · « **Reply #47 on:** June 15, 2005, 10:44:21 AM »

That's not exactly the same thing, Ian. It's not like Nintendo manufactures HDTVs. And even if they did, it's not like they are the only company that does.

nolimit19 · « **Reply #48 on:** June 15, 2005, 11:27:27 AM »

trust me...i dont think nitendo is perfect. i get down on nintendo as much as anyone, but nintendo is a business and business isnt about market share or "image" as much as it is about profit margins.

i was watching a business show on fox news the other day and one of the members of the panel suggested buying microsoft stock because of the upcoming release of the xbox 360. she said that it was going to wipe the floor with the ps3, partly because it wouldnt be out yet (no mention of the Revolution). as soon as this came out of her mouth, a couple other members of the panel instantly disagreed with her, saying that the xbox 360 was slowing microsoft down and that it was still losing money on the project.

point being, in the end, it all comes down to profits....i know its been said before, but apparently, nintendo doesnt view the HDTV aspect of gaming as " worth it" at this point. nintendo took the same stance on online gaming with the gamecube. as far as im concerned, they were dead right.

im not sure how much this hd crap would cost nintendo per console, but i dont think it will make that much of a difference....for those of you that have expirienced hd gaming....is it that much of a life changing expirience? it would be nice to have it as an option, but i can understand why they wouldnt go with it.

by the way, i do need to get a component cable for the cube...where is a good place to get one?

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #49 on:** June 15, 2005, 12:08:17 PM »

store.nintendo.com

www.liksang.com

www.play-asia.com

Mind you that when Nintendo's store says "will begin shipping new component cables on June 20-something", they've been on back order practically since last holiday season. It's like they created demand for these things after they announced that the Digital A/V ports were removed from Cubes -- more like they unknowingly created awareness by announcing bad news.

These buggers are expensive tho -- MONSTER CABLE expensive. Someone should be slapped for not allowing 3rd parties to make them.

I bought my cable at Play-Asia.

News:

Author Topic: Revolution Eschews High Definition (Read 22169 times)