Topic: The presidents in a war of words.

[Famicom]

GameSpot has an article up with some kind words for the competition from the men in charge behind each next-gen console. Here's some excerpts:

Microsoft senior vice president and chief Xbox officer Robert J. Bach

"The other two companies' presentations [at E3] weren't surprising. Sony's [PS3's] capabilities are the same as ours. Nintendo is aiming for the niche market [with its Revolution]. The current-generation Xbox sold more than the PlayStation 2 in North America last Christmas. We will become the market leader with our next-generation console."


Ken Kutaragi, Sony Computer Entertainment president

"Beating us for a short moment is like accidentally winning a point from a Shihan (Karate master), and Microsoft is still not a black belt. Just like with their operating systems, they might come out with something good around the third generation of their release."

"This time, ours [the PS3] will be like a BMW that's equipped with a Ferrari engine. Nintendo's [Revolution] will be something like a new model of a family car. Some people might want it, but if it was me, I'd want to advance to the next level."


Satoru Iwata, Nintendo president

"Creating game software in high definition will require everything from the [graphic's] models to the background to be redone, and it will bloat up development costs. And yet, it has no use for people that aren't playing with a high-definition TV set. Game consoles are not an essential product in life, so we want to make ours as compact, thin, and as inexpensive as we can so that it won't be viewed with hostility by family members."

"There's a big gap between people that enjoy games that take time and playing skills, and people that don't. I'm feeling a real sense of danger about the decline in the Japanese gaming population. Patting a dog and telling it to stay [in Nintendogs] is something that anyone can enjoy. We're aiming to increase the population of game players with these new kinds of games."

"Nintendo is a company that likes to see smiles on the faces of people that love entertainment. We're not about selling new kinds of TVs or taking control of the living room."


Kutaragi is still insane as ever, but this wouldn't be as fun if he wasn't. I think Iwata either Jedi dodged the "What has Nintendo learned from its previous game machine release?" question, or misunderstood what was asked since he went on to discuss the DS instead of the GC. Techically yes, the DS was Ninty's last game machine release but I think Asahi wanted something concerning the Cube. Iwata didn't participate in the mudslinging contest Kutaragi is trying to start, so good for him.

[Deguello]

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Nintendo is aiming for the niche market [with its Revolution].

Yeah, that niche "profit" market, right?

[Mario]

The niche videogames market, videogame systems aren't supposed to play videogames!

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We will become the market leader with our next-generation console.

Hahaha, for 6 months.

[KnowsNothing]

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It isn't a bad thing to have a high price. When we released the original PlayStation at 39,800 yen ($368), Nintendo's Super Famicom was in the 10,000 yen range ($100 range).

I was not aware that the GC is in competition with the PS3 =O

So....MS is full of it.  I'm still lolling over their "1 billion" goal for the 360.  Ken is getting a little too smug. I really hope it bites them in the ass, and I think it will.  Iwata still makes me happy because he's saying that both the systems and the games will be affordable and fun and relevant to gaming.

Sounds fine to me.  I'd love to see these guys put in same room together, too.  Ken and Rob would argue with each other and compare penis sizes, and Iwata would play the DS.  And then Reggie would burst out of Ken and scream "MY PUPPET" and Iwata and him would sit an enjoy a nice foot-long, while Rob......leaves, or something.

[Don'tHate742]

For some overwhelming reason, I have complete faith in Nintendo. (It may be Bill and his fanboyism rubbing off on me)

I'm so glad Nintendo is making something akin to an Itunes Videogame system. All I want out of my system are games. I have a laptop for my music as well as a dvd player, not to mention an IM service that I am completely happy with. That is why no other console appeals to me.

Nintendo focuses on the games, which in other words is saying they are focusing on me, the game-player. With this new way to play, and it's ability to play every single generation to date, the controller won't let me down. I wouldn't even mind if they took every positive aspect from its previous controllers and threw it together to make the REV controller.

Wireless play from the Wavebird
Comfortability of the GC controller
Slide-Click R/L buttons from the GC controller
6 face buttons from the N64 controller
Z-trigger from the N64 controller
D-pad from the SNES controller (best d-pad ever)

Add the REV aspect (no matter how ridiculous) and you have something very very accessible.

Like they say: This is Sony's generation to lose..............and Nintendo's to win.

[jasonditz]

Indeed, I'm a lot more annoyed by Ken's "you have no chance to survive make your time" attitude than I am by Rob Bach's assinine predictions.

Microsoft is increasingly like the dorky kid in high school that doesn't realize what a tool he is and keeps asking out cheerleaders. They're so close to saturation in the only market they're really targetting with the Xbox its not even funny, and they still think they're going to grow marketshare by leaps and bounds by continuing along the same path.

[mantidor]

Ok, I admit it, I was a concerned about no high definition for the Rev... until I realized Id never get an HDTV any time soon, so its not a problem for me, but I see it being a problem for other people, which of course are in the minority for now. Still, Nintendo is so damn confusing with their statments that I dont know what to think, "The Rev will have an output for a TV and PC monitor", "The Rev will play a new kind of high definition games"... and now "High definition is too expensive" I dont get you Nintendo! Is there going to be high def or not?

[nickmitch]

Well, I like the "Don't pay for crap that you're not going to use" mentality. I have an HDTV (that my Dad loves more than me) but it's not in the room where I play video games. I truely believe that oneday the whole world will think the way Nintendo does (and they'll be thinking alittle smarter themselves) but I don't think that it'll happen too soon. It'll probably be just in time for the next generation to come to a close.

[Ian Sane]

I don't care for any of Iwata's answers.  He's either dodging the question (talking about the DS when it's obvious the interviewer meant the Cube), or downplaying the competition.  There's no postive "we're doing this because it's great" stuff.  It's all "what the competition has isn't all it's cracked up to be."  When you ignore your own strengths and downplay the competition's it suggests that you're inferior and are trying to cover your ass.  That might not be the case by 99% of the time that's what that means.

Iwata is making up a bunch of lame excuses for why hardware performance isn't that important.  That's code for "the Rev is underpowered".  Maybe it's not really but logically that's what one would interpret.  It would make no sense for Nintendo to downplay the hardware if their hardware was comparable or better than the competition.  They would make a big deal about being better.  It would make sense to do that.  So Nintendo is either hiding the fact that they're underpowered of they're really dumb and aren't doing effective damage control on the "Rev is underpowered" rumours.

Iwata should just shut up because he NEVER says anything encouraging.  He has an inhuman knack for making the Revolution sound lame.

"Well, I like the 'Don't pay for crap that you're not going to use' mentality. I have an HDTV (that my Dad loves more than me) but it's not in the room where I play video games."

I don't own an HDTV either but I might want to get one in the next few years.  I want that option.  If Nintendo decides it's not worthwhile I'll have second thoughts about buying a Rev and I know some people will not buy a Rev just because of that.  Why throw away sales for NO GOOD REASON?  That sort of mentality killed the Cube.  This isn't Nintendo's decision, it's MY decision.  I'm pretty f*cking sick of Nintendo deciding things for me and it's becoming hard to tolerate the same bullsh!t over and over again.  The market demands HDTV support.  Nintendo can either match the competition for once or lose more market share.  As minor as something like that would seem Nintendo has such a negative image right now that some stupid blatant oversight like that could kill the Rev right off the bat.

[Deguello]

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"This time, ours [the PS3] will be like a BMW that's equipped with a Ferrari engine. Nintendo's [Revolution] will be something like a new model of a family car. Some people might want it, but if it was me, I'd want to advance to the next level."

But but but but BMW makes family cars.  And Ferrari's are ridiculously expensive and guzzle gas for no reason.   Wait... what?

[Don'tHate742]

Ian....


you are definitely over-reacting...

Do you even know the REV specs yet? .....hm mmm...that's what I thought....

[anubis6789]

I'm fairly sure that the REV will have at least 480p support considering that the Cube has that as well, and also considering that on the back of the prototype units that IGN saw there were 2 USB ports, a DC conector, and a digital A/V connector.

What that says to me is that in all probability the REV will have some sort of HD support, even if it is "just" 480p, and that it will also have digital audio support (Dolby Digital). I would be happy if they just went up to 720p and have Dolby Digital 5.1 support.

What I think Iwata was trying to get at is that you can read all the specs for the other two systmes and there is tons off stuff that no normal person would ever get to take advantage of or see, like outputing two feeds of 1080p via HDMI ( I mean really who is ever going to do this). He also didn't directly say that the REV will not have HD capabilities.

[ruby_onix]

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I don't own an HDTV either but I might want to get one in the next few years. I want that option. If Nintendo decides it's not worthwhile I'll have second thoughts about buying a Rev and I know some people will not buy a Rev just because of that.

I'm thinking that HDTV is going to be the Achilles' Heel of the Xbox360 and the PS3 (to a lesser degree).

When you double the resolution, you basically cut the capabilities down to 1/4.

From Blu-ray.com...

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A single-layer Blu-ray Disc can hold 25GB, which can be used to record over 2 hours of HDTV or more than 13 hours of standard-definition TV.

Sure, Blu-ray can hold 13 hours of video. But it won't (at least, not with the PS3). Sony and Microsoft are really pushing the HDTV angle, making it manditory.

End result?

PS3 = 2 hours of HD video. 4 hours with dual-layering (unlikely)
Xbox360 = 30mins of HD video. 1 hour with dual-layering (extremely likely).
Revolution = 2 hours of DVD video. 4 hours with dual-layering (very likely).

And that's just the storage medium. Other things will take a hit too.

For all the talk of "the Rev's gonna be weak", the Rev may well end up giving you the biggest games with the most polys and the most cutting-edge effects.

And for $200, not $400.

[RABicle]

I love the way Kutargi talks in metaphors, not in reality. Instead of relating your hypothetical console to situations that don't exist why not talk straight for once?

[mantidor]

"Why throw away sales for NO GOOD REASON?"

Like, for example, force High definition in your games and make the people who dont have HDTV, the large mayority, to think twice about getting your console?

"The market demands HDTV support."

hardly, what was the percentage of HDTV users on GC? like 1% or something? the aproach of x360 and ps3 is the one who is scaring me, they are basically forcing me to buy an HDTV.

[Renny]

So is the FCC, eventually. I mean you could just output RF from your HDTV settop box, but why would you when HDTVs are as cheap as SDTVs are today? I don't see how including HDTV at a basic, optional level hurts. Nintendo making 480p standard for all games wouldn't make development any harder for smaller games; 720p/1080i would be an option for the 'epics.'

[Ian Sane]

"Like, for example, force High definition in your games and make the people who dont have HDTV, the large mayority, to think twice about getting your console?"

I'm not suggesting forcing high definition for all games.  I think third parties should have the option to do whatever they want.  I'm against Microsoft's policy of forcing feature requirements on all Xbox 360 games.  I'm just saying that Nintendo should provide the option of supporting HDTV to third parties and provide the option to consumers.  There was talk in the posts above how not having the option wouldn't be a big deal and I'm saying that having the option is important.

"Do you even know the REV specs yet? .....hm mmm...that's what I thought...."

No I don't.  But rumours are saying that the Rev is underpowered.  It is damaging for Nintendo for such rumours to exist.  They've had all these interviews to make it clear that the Rev is not underpowered but not once have they done so.  Why would Nintendo not deny a negative rumour?  Well the most likely reason would be that it's true.

Nintendo gave non-answers and downplayed the competition in regards to Cube online support as well and we all know why they were so dodgy and never confirmed that everything was okay.

Though it's entirely possible that the Rev was only planned to be underpowered and they're redesigning their hardware right now.  Nintendo might have underestimated what Sony and MS were going to do and are giving non-answers because right now they're not sure if they can improve the hardware or not.  

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane

No I don't.  But rumours are saying that the Rev is underpowered.  It is damaging for Nintendo for such rumours to exist.  They've had all these interviews to make it clear that the Rev is not underpowered but not once have they done so.  Why would Nintendo not deny a negative rumour?  Well the most likely reason would be that it's true.

Or that they never respond to rumors.

The GC was rumored to be underpowered too, and I don't recall Nintendo stepping up to deny those either.

[Caliban]

Microsoft is too secure of themselves about their 360, they will sell of course but to what amount? His comments are too foolish of all three. They lose this battle.

Sony is very unsecure about their PS3, mostly because it will surely cost more than a gaming console should cost. His comments are...as RABicle mentioned, metaphorical, but they make no sense at all, he's out of his mind already. They will sell of course but won't win this battle.

Nintendo is confident, they don't care too seriously if competitors or fanboys downplay their lack of specs info. His comments are of Hokage level, true to the meaning of what they want to release and sell yet keep some secrets for later. They will sell of course and also won't win battle.

Yup, I think Nintendo and Sony will tie or be very close to each other. Microsoft can lick my boots for all I care and I still think they won't make the cut.

I did like Ken's comment about Microsoft's software even though they still haven't done much of a great job.

[Don'tHate742]

Thank you Jasonditz....that's what I was about to say.

You must realize that Nintendo has always been a modest company. They could easily tell us the REV will be awesomely powerful like Ken up there, but no. That's not how Nintendo does it. They'd rather focus on what makes the consoles different rather than compare specifications that have yet to be proven graphic-wise by any company.

One more thing, Ian. If you look in Nintendo's history, they have not once "dropped the ball" on graphics. Not only that, but the GC showed the world how Nintendo can fit power into a tiny package.

The Xbox was huge...this 360 is smaller....wouldn't it be safe to assume that even though the REV is smaller than the GC, it'll have at least the same graphical leap similar to the Xbox to 360?

[Ian Sane]

"If you look in Nintendo's history, they have not once 'dropped the ball' on graphics."

What about the DS?  Graphically it's not even comparable to the PSP.  Nintendo's a bit different now.  They talk about non-gamers and simple games and stuff like that.  They've never launched a console with that sort of attitude.  The only thing they've launched since they started speaking publicly about targeting non-gamers and such is the DS which trades off hardware power and graphics capabilities for "innovative" features.  Nintendo keeps talking about "new interfaces" and stuff like that for the Rev so it wouldn't be out of character to pull a DS and release inferior hardware with a nifty control gimmick.

[SgtShiversBen]

I don't think they're actually trading that stuff off, they're more of making multimedia take a backseat to gaming.  Plus this is 150$ piece of equipment, yet the games look this good.  Imagine if they didn't put a touch screen, if they didn't put backwards compatibility, or another piece of plastic at the top.  Add all that up and you could probably get it for around 80$.  

Imagine if they took that extra 70$ and souped it up PSP style.  For 150$ you'd be able to get unimaginable things that the PSP wouldn't be able to comprehend.

Also, being an architect, I follow the form follows function aspect.  The DS follows the same menatility and that's what I love about it.

[Don'tHate742]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane"If you look in Nintendo's history, they have not once 'dropped the ball' on graphics."

What about the DS?  Graphically it's not even comparable to the PSP.  Nintendo's a bit different now.  They talk about non-gamers and simple games and stuff like that.  They've never launched a console with that sort of attitude.  The only thing they've launched since they started speaking publicly about targeting non-gamers and such is the DS which trades off hardware power and graphics capabilities for "innovative" features.  Nintendo keeps talking about "new interfaces" and stuff like that for the Rev so it wouldn't be out of character to pull a DS and release inferior hardware with a nifty control gimmick.

Ok....you can't use Portables as an example for when Nintendo "dropped the ball"...

How many times did a new iteration of the GameBoy come out, only to be slightly upgraded? Now look at what they've done....they've made a GBA: Micro!

I was strictly talking about consoles, and not once have they screwed up. Nintendo artists believe in good graphics, but gameplay comes first. That doesn't mean that a game won't have beautiful water and particle effects, and I think this generation proves that. You also mention how they never had the sort of mentallity they do now. I agree with you....every new president brings his ideas to the table. You can't argue though that innovation is neccesary to next gen titles, can you? It depends on what sort of innovation (like the crap GBA connectivity), but overall it is needed. I can't speak for Nintendo, we'll have to see what simple, innovating, non-gamers all mean. Because right now, nobody knows....Still, those points have nothing to do with graphics. You don't have to sacrifice graphics or sound to make a game simple, innovative, or appealing to a non-gamer.

This new mentality isn't detrimental (sp?) to graphics as a whole, I'd be more worried about playing with a big red button =P.

Furthermore, about the DS, it wasn't as much as a trade-off as it was keeping the price down. You said it yourself, the PSP failed at launch due to it's pricing. Nintendo knows what price people are willing to pay...."cheap." That mentality as well as innovation carried the DS into fruitation.

[Famicom]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"If you look in Nintendo's history, they have not once 'dropped the ball' on graphics."

What about the DS?  Graphically it's not even comparable to the PSP.

Definitely not a fair comparison to their consoles. To the contrary of their consoles, Nintendo has never had a graphical edge against their handheld competitors, and yet they still beat them all. The E3 lineup for the DS compared to PSP is looking like the same deal all over again. But that's not the point of the question.

Despite all the recent doublespeak, I fully expect the Rev to be at least comparable if not better than the competition graphically IN GAMES, where it counts the most. But I don't expect Nintendo to play up that (potential) fact, since they never have, and probably never will.

[Ian Sane]

"You can't argue though that innovation is neccesary to next gen titles, can you?"

Nope.  I agree that innovation is necessary.  But how innovation is achieved is what's important.  Nintendo can potentially offer more flexibility for innovation with more powerful hardware than they can with a slightly souped up Gamecube with a gimmicky controller.  Hardware isn't just for graphics.  It allows for more characters on screen at a time and better AI and better physics and larger worlds.  All of those contribute to innovation and to gameplay.  Innovation is not universally good (as you pointed out with the GBA connectivity stuff).  Innovation should expand and improve and built on what already exists, not merely be different.  If they sacrifice hardware performance and use some new controller to make up for it they aren't innovating in the good way.  They're not offering an improvement then, they're just doing something different.

Edit: I thought of something in regards to the "portables don't count" arguement.  The Gameboy may have always been behind but at the time of release it was cutting edge.  Nintendo didn't know that the Game Gear, Lynx, or NGPC were going to come out when they released their other portables.  They DID however know that the PSP was coming out and had a pretty good idea of what to expect.  They intentionally chose to not match the PSP hardware.  With the other portables Nintendo just released whatever and then competitors specfically designed their portables to have better hardware.