Author Topic: Fixed-Cursor  (Read 3160 times)

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Offline Jensen

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Fixed-Cursor
« on: June 04, 2006, 07:27:56 PM »
I've seen calls for a fixed cursor in FPS games.  It's possible, but it will require two things.

You'll have to hold down a button while moving the view.  Let go of the button to reposition the WiiMote without changing the view.  This will be equivalent to picking up a mouse to reposition it.

If you move the Wiimote too far, it will stop picking up the IR bar.... Like running out of mouse pad.  I don't know how much it will confuse the system if you move outside range.

Do you think we could get used to these issues?
 

Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2006, 07:36:45 PM »
pulling the right trigger to aim felt natural to me in RE4

Offline nemo_83

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RE:Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2006, 11:45:04 PM »
I think you misinterpreted the fixed-cursor.  Metroid Prime 3's camera controls like sniper mode in Goldeneye; the call for an optional fixed crosshair is one for PC mouse controls where the crosshair is locked directly to camera control (where in MP3 you have to push the cursor to the edge of the screen before you start turning.

Developers claim that if they lock the crosshair control and camera control together on the wiimote then your camera will constantly bob around.  I say give me the option and let me deal with it, if I can operate a mouse I can handle this.  
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Offline Jensen

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2006, 04:01:56 AM »
huh? I compared it directly to a mouse twice.  The bob could be fixed by a very small deadzone type system.

Offline Requiem

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2006, 04:19:50 AM »
Who wants a fixed cursor when pointing at your enemy is much more intuitive?

The only problem I see with it is that you have to point and turn past your enemy in order for the camera to center on it. Still a minor problem since you can immediately shoot your enemy once he's on the screen. This is superb for instances where you face multiple enemies.

I think once we get use to the fact that the enemy doesn't have to be directly in front of you to shoot him, we'll see greater mastery of gameplay.

If you haven't checked it out already, I'd suggest going to IGN and watching the video that showcases the entire MP3 demo. It shows you the hightened sense of accuracy that is only possible with the Wii.

Also, what if the nunchuck could be used to sort of "nudge" the camera along when you need it most. For instance, let's say your shooting an enemy and then he quickly jumps sideways out of view. Well, kinda thrusting the nunchuck in the direction needed will move the camera half a screen. I think something like that could become very useful and put aside many of the so called "complaints".
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Offline Artimus

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2006, 06:42:59 AM »
PC FPS setup remains the easiest and most accurate. I imagine we'll see it simulated more as time goes on.

Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2006, 07:12:16 AM »
With bunny-hopping snipers getting headshots on the PC FPS setup, maybe it's too accurate

Offline Kairon

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RE:Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2006, 07:24:42 AM »
I resist the move to a fixed-point cursor. I want to point at my enemies and shoot them please.

Perhaps a dual-Wiimote set-up with the offhand holding a flashlight and the mainhand aiming the weapon?

Simply line-up the aiming reticule and flashlight reticule and move them together (gun and flashlight pointing in same direction, cop-style) for a fixed-reticule mode.

Then seperate them for free-form aiming!

Also, the flashlight can always point where you're moving, directional movement based off the flashlight viewpoint would be handled via the + pad or a combination of A for forward, B for back, and rotation for strafing.

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Offline Stimutacs Addict

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2006, 08:17:35 AM »
Why isn't moving/turning controlled with teh nunchuck analog stick >? We can easily strafe/sidestep with a twist of the Wiimote
I'll shut up now...

Offline Kairon

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2006, 08:22:25 AM »
Or strafe-sidestep with a tilt of the nunchuck I guess...

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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2006, 11:52:48 PM »
I don't want a dead zone and I don't want to have to hold down a button every time I want to move the cam.  And counter coding against small movements would ruin it I would think.

It just needs to control like a PC shooter in one option.  If you point left or right the camera and cross hair follow with perpixel accuracy.  The same if you point up or down.  And if you used the remote to control the grapple beam you could give a whole new dimension to throwing an enemy with it by twisting the remote as you pull it back (like a spiral on a football).
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Offline Requiem

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2006, 11:49:20 AM »
Do you realize how shaky your hand is?
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I'm not a whore, ok? Really.....really, I'm not.

But, if she slips man....if she slips, I slide!"

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Offline Jensen

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RE:Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2006, 04:08:36 PM »
I'd make a circle in the middle of the screen.... lets say 1 inch in diameter.  The cursor would move around in that one inch circle, but if you got to the edge of the circle, it would drag the view around.
Maybe with a gradual boundary.

Sort of like it is with Metroid Prime 3 and Red Steel, but with a much smaller circle of cursor movement, and mouse-like instead  of joystick-like control at the edge of that boundary.

Metroid Prime: Hunters is like that.  Its cursor moves some, but it still feels like a PC FPS.

Offline Stimutacs Addict

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2006, 08:00:16 PM »
I like the thought of being able to bring up an options window to customize and adjust the circle in Jensen's idea.

and Kairon's idea about nunchuck tilt to strafe is much better than my own; strafing and aiming with teh same hand might be too tough

Conclusion: Red Steel and Prime 3 might not be the money shot, but it wont be too long before some developer (hopefully a smaller studio) finds the perfect formula.

then about 3 months later EA will rip that formula and impliment multiplayer YEAS!
I'll shut up now...

Offline Requiem

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2006, 08:20:38 PM »
Jensen:

That's a damn good idea. However, I feel that the smaller circle would just be making it harder to defeat multiple enemies at the same time (ie, shooting an enemy at the top and bottom of the screen). The pointing function is essential in making the Wiimote better that PC.
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I'm not a whore, ok? Really.....really, I'm not.

But, if she slips man....if she slips, I slide!"

Qoute of the Summer

Offline wandering

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2006, 09:43:51 PM »
Quote

I'd make a circle in the middle of the screen.... lets say 1 inch in diameter. The cursor would move around in that one inch circle, but if you got to the edge of the circle, it would drag the view around.
Maybe with a gradual boundary.

Yeah, no, they did that with RealMyst (what? I'm a myst fanboy). It didn't work that well.  
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2006, 02:31:16 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Requiem
Do you realize how shaky your hand is?


if this controller works like they hyped it to it should work as smoothly as painting with a brush
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Offline Requiem

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2006, 07:59:14 AM »
Not really, Nemo. The Wiimote is super sensitive. If you don't believe me check out the Wii Obstacle Course demo. It is very accurate and can tell if your hand is shaking or not. And since NO HAND can hold still while holding an object in the air, it's a definite concern. One that makes mapping the cursor to the camera ridiculous (unless it's a one handed game where you can use your other hand to hold the controller steady).  
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I'm not a whore, ok? Really.....really, I'm not.

But, if she slips man....if she slips, I slide!"

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Offline Kairon

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2006, 08:12:13 AM »
My "pointing two wiimotes in the same direction for fixed cursor/viewpoint mode" might avoid sensitivity issues since it would average out the shakiness of two hands together...

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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2006, 08:27:40 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
My "pointing two wiimotes in the same direction for fixed cursor/viewpoint mode" might avoid sensitivity issues since it would average out the shakiness of two hands together...



this could work, but most shooters right now are using the nunchuck.  it would be too easy to just say the game should be designed for two pistol shells (or one pistol and one naked remote) so turning could be done by pointing dual remotes in the same direction at the same time while allowing each hand to opperate freely most of the time.  with dual pistols the camera could also be controlled by the second analog stick but using dual pistols rather than one pistol and a naked remote would not allow you to jump if you have a weapon in each hand in the game...i believe we can solve this but it means them packing two pistols together every time, one for each hand, one with a stick and the other with a trackball which can be used as a button for jumping or at least leaves room for a button off to the side for jumping on that hemisphere because the ball won't have a pad sticking up on top of it.  oh yeah, and they need to redesign the pistol to be shaped more like the nunchuck but with a round ring fro the finger instead of a square.  i wonder what the third parties will give us.  pistol shells could be packed in fairly cheaply as all the motion and wireless tech would be in the remote it plugs into.
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2006, 08:50:00 AM »
Actually, I was envisioning my "pistol and flashlight" set-up above, but you've brought up some itneresting topics regarding dual-psitols, and perhaps even going ahead and making a Pistol shaped accessory that is paired with a regular Wiimote... hmm...

~Carmine M. Red
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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Requiem

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RE: Fixed-Cursor
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2006, 08:51:53 AM »
Flashlight/Pistol setup would be IDEAL for something like RE, where the shakiness would only make the game more real and immersive. When your really anxious and scared, that's when your shakiness reaches a peak.

Also, the view would be over the shoulder and really wouldn't suffer from the display issues that FPS's have.
"Hey....

I'm not a whore, ok? Really.....really, I'm not.

But, if she slips man....if she slips, I slide!"

Qoute of the Summer