Topic: BLAH BLAH BLAH: GameCube 64

[Noble~Feather]

N64 sold twice as well as GameCube? Ouch... I never knew that.

However, I do find a minor flaw. Some of you claim that it extremely unlikely for Nintendo to ever be on top again, and you use the GameCube's lack of software to back up this statement. But recently Nintendo has been very much changing their strategies. You have to realize that GameCube is still a Yamauchi branded hardware (and we all know how good of a president he was).  Revolution will be an entirely new pace for Nintendo. It's backed up by Iwata 100%. Not only that, but Ninty's been gaining very good relationships with 3rd parties (see: Square, Namco). (However, they still need to gain a better relationship with American 3rd parties, as they seem to be slowly straying away.) Not only that, but Nintendo is infact gaining new franchises AND adult-oriented games. Another Code, Jam with the Band, Geist... Iwata even said that he's developing several new franchises for the Rev. Also, Ninty's been following a new strategy of creating new gameplay. DS might not exactly be the brightest example of this, but you have to atleast give them some credit for it. We've not had a single perminent change in gameplay since the analogue, which, infact, was created by Nintendo.  And again on the subject of marketing to adults, now Nintendo has Reggie . Which brings up another minor flaw: you claim that DS only appeals to kids, when Nintendo recently showed that the age group for DS owners: 56% of them are over the age of 19. So, Nintendo is exceeding their market. And since they're doing this, they might even be able to gain the PlayStation crowd next-gen.

I just have a small feeling inside that Nintendo will rise again next generation.

[KnowsNothing]

I liked the roundtable format

this is me not commenting on what was said, I've got the rest of earth to do that for me.  over and over and over and over again.

[Karl Castaneda #2]

My outlook on Nintendo is the following: They're getting better. There's no doubting that. However, they really need to pick up the pace and get a lot better a lot faster if they want to claw their way back to the throne. Anything's possible and someone who tells you that any gaming company can NEVER do something is lying. Anything can happen. Maybe one day the R&D Team at Nintendo will come up with something truly brilliant that shuts out the competition indefinitely. Will this happen. Oh, it's so unlikely that I'd sooner win the lottery, get struck by lightning, and have alien children, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Despite the fact that Nintendo may not be on top and, at the moment, doesn't have a great outlook compared to Microsoft or Sony, it makes this fan's heart warm knowing that they ARE improving. Maybe not at the rate we'd like them to, but any improvement is better than none.

[Athlon-pv]

Jon

About the online stuff , what people dont know is that sometimes it is very hard to do it when you recieve next to nothing about it from Nintendo and or have todo the interface from scratch , working with serverside software you have no control over. I am not sure how devs dump online in GC versions but im sure that it is due to it being not that easy without it being tried and tested alike Xbox live.

That is probably why there hardly any online titles.  And or it gets sacrificed because it wouldnt effect sales (boring i know).  And stuff like PSO 1&2 just kinda sucks hard not just the monthly fee, the problem of memory card deletion and so on.

"We" gamers have a whole other look towards "online" some see it as a must have others may think it is nice , would we all use it allways all of the time , maybe not. But even if we arent using it should it be included in every game?

Maybe so i would have loved to see Super Smash Brothers Melee online and even if it is not a major selling point the feature should be so that we could either choose it for lan gaming or over the internet.

The Graphical User Interface is the most important thing it has got to be so simple (go watch a GDC xbox live online speech on ign ) that everyone can use it and gain acces to a game within roughly 30 seconds. If this isnt the case the GUI  is a problem.
I believe that if Nintendo wants to go "online" they better get all of the problems straight. There is nothing more annoying to devs and gamers when they would like to use the feature but it isnt done right.

Now would this solve all the problems ?    

[ruby_onix]

I just read the piece.

First off, I think it had a flawed foundation. IGN had another installment in their "lame doesn't describe it" series where they ask a PR schmoe one single boring question. And then you guys bitch about having to read boring PR spin. Hey, Nintendo didn't make you read that. I know I certainly didn't. I don't think IGN even made you read it. You have noone to blame but yourselves.

As the conversation spun off, it had a negative and somewhat harsh tone. I can handle negative and harsh. But some of it seemed called-for, and some of it didn't (I don't really feel like seperating the two, and commenting on them).

I think for the most part you guys were bitching. Whatever. I think you're allowed to do that every now than then. I know I do it. Ian does it, and I generally think that the people here ride him too hard about it. It doesn't help that it's not the best time to be a GameCube fan.


Also, since you asked, I think this new "roundtable" format is much easier to read and understand than that "IRC-style" format of having five people all trying to talk over each other. That old way actually got on my nerves.

[binkykazooie]

Hmmm . . . sales data and stock pricing assumes a different story about Nintendo. Acknowledged is that the corp. is always in the green and always makes a profit. Ever wonder who backs them (Panasonic mostly) or how much industry in Japan they own?

Also, why is GameCube #1 in Japan? (Oh, look, a can of worms just opened.) Nintendo has always dominated the Nipponese since 1983, and in Japan, the average gamer there wants high quality. Nintendo makes good, ignores the rest of the world, and there's the profit.

America is a second thought in the Nintendo mind. Sony and Microsoft (and Sega before them) knew that Nintendo stopped caring about the American gamer many, many moons before (back before N64's release). Didn't help that since 1997 (when Street Fighter Alpha 2 was released on SNES) that nothing has really come out to grab the gamers in America. I don't care for shooters much (not Doom type, more like Parodius type), and I hate dating sims and bad games based on anime/manga. (Yes, throw Pokemon right in there). Still, Nintendo doesn't care. In Japan, a gamer can go to 7-11 and buy a flash ROM cart for the SFC and flash a new 16-bit SNES title onto it for the price of an iTunes song. Then, while N64 bombed over there, SFC production of games increased. I believe somebody in the article mentioned about Nintendo's back up cash in GBA and such. Yup, that's how it works. Then nobody over in Japan bought a PS2 (Saturn, Dreamcast, SFC, GameCube over there). Despite the dishonest media spin (amazing what multiple trips to Japan and America can do to filter out the EGM-styled lies), PS2 was sold as a cheap DVD player. Final Fantasy has never sold well in Japan, ergo, why Nintendo didn't care when Square took off in 1997.

Now those are what's happened and where Nintendo stands since 1993 [I mean the whole article and the forum thread, not my rant up above] (the day Cruis'n USA and Killer Instinct appeared, also with Donkey Kong Country/Donkey Kong Land). This article sums up, to me, why I don't play my GameCube: it sucks. The games are boring. And cheap-feeling. Like I'm not getting the whole product compared to the PS2 or Xbox versions. Lately, it has been the Xbox versions that are feeling/playing the best. I had faith behind Nintendo, but not anymore. DS should be BS, and GBA should've been a PS1 outta the box (same freakin' processor power). In 1983, FamiCom was released with the biggest amount of RAM ever seen and the highest resolution for video. No matched till 1987, and in America in 1988, with the high-res EGA cards for PC. In 1990, again, the biggest amount of RAM for a system, the highest resolution at the time, and, just to top it off, a sound chip, if sampled properly, doing excellent sounds (remember certain tunes from certain games on SNES?). Game Boy was, for the time, great. Lotsa RAM, fast 8-bit processor, sound digitizer, stereo . . . and then . . . Virtual Boy (bought mine for $5 at Toys R Us clearance), then N64 . . . c'mon, a cart after we've humped CD-ROMs for almost 7 years by then, and 9 for the Japanese gamer!! Shame shame shame.

GameCube was a dumb idea to start with. Like N64. It's like Sega not using DVDs on Dreamcast (yeah, using GD-ROMs sure did stop piracy).

But the name of the game is to make money, and Nintendo didn't infringe on anybody's patents, and they keep selling, even with the customer dissatisfaction.

In the end, I own all (from an old Odyssey to a PSP) so I don't give a hoot in the end. Just make me some decent games PLZ!!

[PaLaDiN]

"It's bad enough when Nintendo makes excuses. I'm really tired of that. It's even worse that so many of their fans use the same lame excuses in defending them. "They make games for everyone." "Online isn't profitable." "Quality over quantity." These are corporate excuses. They aren't valid for us gamers so don't use them. Do you have stock in Nintendo? Don't have blind faith in Nintendo. They have faults and they make mistakes that you shouldn't tolerate or make excuses for."

I think you're seriously overcompensating. Those "corporate excuses", as you call them, do hold grains of truth in them that are valid for us gamers. If you can't see that, then I doubt it's us who are blind. Quality over quantity for example... my favorite game ever is Metroid Prime, so I can't disagree with that philosophy. Of course it would be nice to have both, but in my opinion none of the consoles has an absolute advantage in both... this isn't solely a Nintendo issue.

"The SNES is what made me a Nintendo fan. Why can’t Nintendo’s new consoles be at least half as good as the SNES was? I’m not asking for Nintendo to be Sony, I’m asking for them to be Nintendo."

I'm hoping you mean in terms of choice, because I love my GC and its games a lot more than I ever loved my SNES. Nintendo does need more choice, but I think a large part of why they haven't regained that choice yet is because of Sony. Sony stole away most of their third parties after Nintendo's N64 blunder... whether you want to admit it or not, Sony is pretty damn smart, and your whole complaint seems to hinge around the hope that Sony messes up badly and Nintendo regains their lion's share. I don't see how your complaint has any solution other than praying Sony screws up.

"I’m not asking for Nintendo to be Sony, I’m asking for them to be Nintendo."

The problem with that is that Sony has usurped what Nintendo used to be, at least in terms of third party support. Asking Nintendo to be old Nintendo isn't going to work unless they can first oust Sony, and to do that they have to be better than old Nintendo. I get the feeling some of you don't realize this. Being old Nintendo when they're not in power is just going to ruin them... to act like a king again they have to reascend to the throne first, so to speak. There's no magical document hidden deep in their archives that they can find and read and realize "aha, the solution to all our problems... THIS is how we used to be!"... no, they have to bide their time, invent new weapons and engines nobody has seen before and storm the castle once Sony shows any sign of weakness.

"And before everybody chimes in saying, "Well, *I* don't care about online, online is useless, Sony and Microsoft suck, NITNEDO FOR EVAR!!!1111!!""

Hehe... by "everybody" you pretty much mean just me.

"Contrary to what many of you may think, I love my GameCube. I have more games for it than any other system. My dissatisfaction comes from the fact that I am forced to buy other systems to play games that skew towards a certain audience, or to have the "best" version of a port. That's retarded. For crying out loud Nintendo, build online into your next system (which they've done, thank God) and start developing mature* titles on a consistent basis. Nintendo would demolish all competition if they could round out their product portfolio with some software that has a little edge. How about a kick-ass new franchise with adult themes and situations? Something edgy and cool? Or has that been scrapped in favor of another Mario Tennis game or Mario Party 10? <shudder>"

So let's recap. You love your gamecube but you also love some of what Sony and Microsoft are doing, which is Nintendo's fault because no other game company should be allowed to come up with anything good. You want Sony and Microsoft to lay down like good little doggies while Nintendo walks all over them and steals any good ideas they may have contributed that could possibly appeal to anybody, so that nobody has a reason to consider getting either other console. Methinks maybe you're underestimating S&M just a tad, but anyway:

None of your proposed solutions will accomplish any of what you want. Nintendo would not "demolish all competition" by matching them... I'm sorry, now you're just being blindly hopeful and unreasonable. Even if Nintendo offers EVERYTHING the other two offer, which is impossible, your idea of "demolishing all competition" is a pipe dream you're allowing to color your judgement... why should anybody get Nintendo when the other two did it first? It may be possible that Nintendo could demolish all competition... but not the way you want them to, that's just ridiculous. They have to come up with something neither Sony or Microsoft has done before that so far outweighs their respective advantages that everybody has to have Nintendo's system.

On a not so related note, I will agree that they should make a kick-ass new franchise though. That would be cool, so long as the focus is on its newness and kick-assness and not on its maturity.

[NWR_Lindy]

Athlon-pv: I agree with you wholeheartedly.  I wasn't faulting third-parties for not making online games for GameCube, I was faulting Nintendo for not supporting online development whatsoever.  Furthermore, I can't understand why Nintendo would waste the R&D time to develop and test a broadband adapter for GameCube and then literally never use it.  That's just a poor management decision as far as I'm concerned.

ruby_onix: This whole thing started as an email thread, and it eventually got so interesting that we realized we should post it.  In that sense a lot of our comments (especially mine) were candid and didn't pull any punches, but I stand by everything I said (even the "greedy bastards" comment...I think that Nintendo's greed is getting in the way of their third-party relationships, and I know I'm not the only one out there that thinks that way).  In the end I think it was worthwhile, if only for the fact that it sparked some really good debate.

silks

 

[ruby_onix]

Quote
...but I stand by everything I said (even the "greedy bastards" comment...

That was one of the "called for" moments in my book.

As was Bloodworth's observation that they'd make even more money if they had a massive userbase.

[mantidor]

Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN


"And before everybody chimes in saying, "Well, *I* don't care about online, online is useless, Sony and Microsoft suck, NITNEDO FOR EVAR!!!1111!!""

Hehe... by "everybody" you pretty much mean just me.

You are not alone, Ive found online to be dull and boring. Playing Mario Party with my little and older cousins and my brother is a million times better than playing games with "HL2_fan678" or "necromage_45", no matter how great the online game is.

Im on the side that found the roundtable too whining. It all comes down to the almost no games release in april for what I see.

Some of us are very much part of a niche group as in we only buy and play Nintendo first party titles with the rare ocassion of a third party title, and so we dont see anything terrible with only one game being released this month, but also you the people complaining  belongs to another niche. I really doubt the average gamer buys more than one game a month, and Im exaggerating, if it were so the tie ratios would be sky high, like 23:1 or something, which clearly doesnt happen.

For me its clearly a personal grudge due to Nintendo's support, but just because they dont (or cant) please you doesnt mean they are failing at their business, Nintendo's profitability alone debunks that. I know Nintendo really lacks a lot of support, but all this roundtable is basically whining about having only one game to choose in april from what I see.

I for once will probably only buy Zelda this year after I bought RE4... yes, I cant afford any more games, I really doubt any of you could stand being in my shoes now, could you? seeing you guys complaining after having so many games over the past years makes me feel kind of bad.

and I like the round table format, but to be honest I cant remember if there was another format so anyway I found this one nice

[Berto2K]

Quote
Originally posted by: binkykazooie
Also, why is GameCube #1 in Japan? (Oh, look, a can of worms just opened.) Nintendo has always dominated the Nipponese since 1983, and in Japan, the average gamer there wants high quality. Nintendo makes good, ignores the rest of the world, and there's the profit.

What alien planet do you come from??? O_o  Is there some other JPN that the rest of us earthlings don't know about?

[Jonnyboy117]

The other format is IRC-like because it takes place on IRC.  :-)

I don't think most people buy more than one game per month, but many people aren't interested in the one Nintendo game per month.  You know, most of the time neither Sony nor Microsoft has more than one first-party game coming out in a month, but they also have third-party support to take care of the people who don't want the first-party games.  Sometimes Nintendo doesn't have that backup from the other publishers.  Also, many people trade in games to get new ones, which is one reason why the tie ratios aren't sky high.  There are also people who buy systems and stop buying new games for them after just a few months.  Then there are people who buy five games every month.  It all averages out.

By the way, the person complaining about third-party support for GC in 2005 is mostly right, but you did forget NBA Street V3.  Some people (not Karl) would say Fight Night Round 2, as well.

Yeah, I don't get that Japan comment either.  Nintendo is WAY behind Sony in console installed base in Japan, it's just that they're ahead of Microsoft (as is the Wonderswan Color, Game Boy Pocket, and Turbo GrafX 16).  To recap: Nintendo is in second place in Japan and third place everywhere else.  And the gap is widening, what with the release of Halo 2 last fall dramatically boosting Xbox sales (they even finished ahead of PS2 for monthly sales during the Christmas season).  Nintendo had some great games for the holidays, but none of them sold very well, other than perhaps Mario Party 6.  I know Echoes bombed pretty hard.  

[ShyGuy]

Actually, I believe the reason Xbox outsold the PS/2 in was more due to the fact the Sony had a shortage of consoles.

IIRC, the numbers were PS2 694k, Xbox 719k, and Gamecube 350k. Can anyone verify?

[Galford]

To the staff of PGC...

Great article.  Stuff like that is the reason why this is the number one
fan site for Nintendo on the Internet.

PS- Justin's daughter is now 5???

[Hostile Creation]

"It doesn't help that it's not the best time to be a GameCube fan."
Yeah, I remember ten years ago.  That was a great time to be a Gamecube fan.

So we come to the conclusion that Nintendo should be like Microsoft and Sony, except not be.  Wonderful.

Also, I like the roundtable, but this didn't merit reading (whether the opinions were valid or not, it was overdone and extremely boring).  It feels like it's forum thread and I got there late

[KnowsNothing]

YOU weren't late. Jonathan Metts, Jonathan Lindemann, Michael Cole, Justin Nation, Mike Sklens, David Trammell, and Daniel Bloodworth were late.  This WAS a forum thread and it was created two years ago.

oh sh I'm complaining about the same thing again better stop  

[Rize]

Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
The other format is IRC-like because it takes place on IRC.  :-)

I don't think most people buy more than one game per month

I know I'm not most people, but 've bought probably 1 game a day so far this month (average).

"don't disagree with what Ubisoft is doing. I liked the technique in Pikmin 2. But I can clearly see games advertising things in loading screens and making ads painfully obvious in the future, and that's not something I ever want to see. This is a step toward that level, you realize.  Fortunately, Nintendo will probably keep us living without loading screens forever, so I'm thankful for that."

You answered your own question.  I think there will be a break through in media technology that takes everyone back to the days of no loading times (not just disciplined developers).  And until then, we have reviewers who will slam any game that advertises in an obtrusive way.

[Djunknown]

I also vote for the round-table format with my mug of beer in the air

What really hit it home for me is JonnyBoy's 3 bullet points:

"Plan A: Reduce royalties and sell so many systems that the platform looks attractive from a business standpoint.
Failure: Royalties still higher than those of competitors. System sells extremely well at launch, then falls off quickly as almost no games are released for nearly a year following the debut. No killer app strong enough to push buzz and system sales on through to the second generation of games."

PGC'ers here can say GTA and Halo suck and are overated, but that's the one-two combo that basically set the stage for this console cycle. And these two came out of nowhere. MS into console gaming? Puh-leeze. Wait, they have the best console FPS since Golden-eye? wa-who! GTA 3 stole Metal Gear Solid 2's thunder, and set the stage for the 'free-roaming me-too, have to put some some sort of free-roaming' knockoffs.

"Plan B: Woo third-parties creatively by cooperating with them on first-party titles.
Failure: Externally developed games vary in quality (from F-Zero GX to Star Fox Assault). Third-parties do not increase publishing support with their own games despite fruitful cooperations."

Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was a million seller on the 'Cube. Let's put Sonic on other consoles! Devil May Cry is a sweet action game! Let's keep it on the PS2! Viewtiful Joe is loved by the 'Cube fans? When can we get that PS2 port ready? Tales of Symphonia was a great RPG! Let's make make the next a PS2 exclusive! Get the picture?

"Plan C: Whore out Nintendo characters and other properties for use in third-party titles.
Failure: Dilutes the essence of the characters while producing minimal effect on sales of the GameCube versions (excepting Soul Calibur II). Even successful cases do not sway subsequent third-party support (see: Soul Calibur III)."

We don't know the story behind SC III, save for the commonly accepted theory that Sony gave Namco the proveribal money hat. But its just a theory. DDR is finally coming to the 'cube soon, with Mario no less. Do we really need that sort of incentive to pick up said title? Anyone have sales figures of NBA street Vol 3 and Fight Night round 2 handy? How do the 'Cube ports stand up to their online bretheren?

I've said this before, but it seems Nintendo has become the Apple of gaming. On the fringe of the mainstream, but still profitable. There's no incentive for 3rd party exclusives, and what few exclusives there are ported to the bigger user bases. The only somehat high profile games that haven't been ported that I can recall right now is RE 1 and 0; though at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they ported them in the future out of spite...

For the record, this my first console where I indulged my gaming habit as much as I could. I didn't have mommy and daddy there as penny pinchers. I have more games now than I ever did. But when I see 3rd party exclusives being ported as the norm, and not getting reciprical treatment, I get a tingly sensation that's not nice.  When a middle of the road machine gets shafted ports as a norm, that tingly sensation comes back (BG Dark Alliance, I'm looking at you...).  When  high profile games come out to PS2, Xbox, PC, but a 'Cube version is missing, that tingly sensation hurts.

Despite all that, I'm still going to get 'Cube games from now, until the big N decides to put it in console heaven. Nex-gen, I'm a free agent. All 3 major companies have an equal chance of wowing me. Nintendo no longer has my total devotion. Its going to have to re-earn it.

[Ian Sane]

"Nintendo would not 'demolish all competition' by matching them... I'm sorry, now you're just being blindly hopeful and unreasonable. Even if Nintendo offers EVERYTHING the other two offer, which is impossible, your idea of 'demolishing all competition' is a pipe dream you're allowing to color your judgement... why should anybody get Nintendo when the other two did it first?"

True.  Merely being equal (which is not nearly impossible) isn't going to do it but it will help.  Sure matching everything isn't by itself going to fix everything but it will be a millions times better than being inferior.  Everything is in steps.  Nintendo can't be better than Sony or MS unless they are equal to them first.  Matching the competition is the first step.  That levels the playing field.  Then Nintendo's differences can actually be advantages instead of alternatives.  If Nintendo matched MS and Sony this gen connectivity would have been a major selling point.  Imagine the Cube with matching licencing fees for third parties, online support, demo discs, DVD playback, etc.  Imagine if Cube verisons of games like Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory or Timesplitters: Future Perfect had all of the features present in the Xbox version PLUS connectivity.  It would be hands down the best version.  That's why it's important to match the competition because it allows Nintendo to do what the competition does PLUS MORE.  Nintendo is a better developer than Sony and MS.  They design better hardware than Sony and MS.  They're more creative than Sony and MS.  They could have huge advantages over the competition if they just made sure they were competing on a level playing field.  Nintendo is like the fastest runner that always loses because they give everyone else a head start.

"Being old Nintendo when they're not in power is just going to ruin them... to act like a king again they have to reascend to the throne first, so to speak."

Nintendo definitely cannot act like old Nintendo with third parties.  That's in fact one of their problems.  But they have to be "old Nintendo" to us gamers.  The end result should be similar they just need to take a different path to get there.  At the very least Nintendo should show an effort to reach that previous position and they don't.  They humour us once in a while but it's clear they aren't really trying.  They just look at the bottom line, make sure it's in the black, and don't realize (or perhaps don't care) that some of us are not cool with a team that's trying to sell tickets but isn't trying to win the championship.

[PaLaDiN]

No matter what happens, I'm still buying the next Nintendo console next gen... although not at launch.

I tried a GC-PS2 combo this gen and I couldn't be happier. I need a GC for Nintendo games, those alone make the purchase worth it... and I need the PS2 because it's the market leader and therefore most third-parties contribute their best efforts to it. If I look at each console by itself instead of comparing it to the others, both purchases are definitely justified. Xbox... Xbox is online-centric (ugh) and the games I was considering buying it for eventually got ported to PC.

The only question I'm facing next gen is which console I'm going to buy first.

Ian, the problem with matching Sony and Microsoft is that just trying to match them will take up all of Nintendo's resources. Microsoft in particular has thrown huge amounts of money into the black hole that is Xbox... realistically speaking, if Nintendo tries to do everything that Xbox has done, they will be fighting on Microsoft's terms and will have no time to spend developing the "and more" you want. This isn't a question of alternatives versus additions... this is a question of alternatives versus conformity. The problem Nintendo faces is making a must-have alternative that eclipses the differences between them and the others.

[darknight06]

"PGC'ers here can say GTA and Halo suck and are overated, but that's the one-two combo that basically set the stage for this console cycle."

GTA didn't even get decent IMO until San Andreas, and I've played PC FPS that run all over Halo but I digress.

"Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was a million seller on the 'Cube. Let's put Sonic on other consoles! Devil May Cry is a sweet action game! Let's keep it on the PS2! Viewtiful Joe is loved by the 'Cube fans? When can we get that PS2 port ready? Tales of Symphonia was a great RPG! Let's make make the next a PS2 exclusive! Get the picture?"

This bugs the heck out of me.  Would've been different in a sense if we did get games like DMC in exchange but Noooooooooo
Now granted they did release the Cube Sonic Heroes first and from what I've seen it's probably the best version available.  Too bad it sucked, and I blame most of that on being a multiplatform game despite Renderware.   As if that ain't enough, theres the whole Mega Man Anniversary Collection conspiracy, where somehow 6 NES games, an SNES game, one 12MB and one 16MB arcade game along with a 300MB Mega Man 8 take up more space than most games this generation.  Not to mention that while I was ok with it, they played tiddly winks with the controls.

"DDR is finally coming to the 'cube soon, with Mario no less. Do we really need that sort of incentive to pick up said title?"

That's the same question I've been asking myself about this for a while too.  Why does Konami feel the need to include Mario in the game?  It's not like the game can't sell itself as long as they don't go making jacked up mixes like Extreme US and Ultramix 1.  The only way this game will be acceptable to me in this form would be if it comes out as good or better than DDR Disney Rave.  Not many songs but it was an interesting mix nonetheless.  And storage should NOT be a problem.  Extreme US was only 1.1GB.
About using Nintendo characters in 3rd party games. I loved having Link in SCII despite how bad he sucked.  He fit very well.  Now Mario and gang in NBA Street V3.  I don't have too much of a problem with it, but I could definitely see how others could feel it takes away from the game given that they don't fit all that well.  However, I got to wonder if the game would've even made it on the Cube this time had EA not been given permission to do it?  I think it wouldn't have happened.  Same with Fight Night and Super Punch Out.  About the SCIII fiasco?  I'm willing to bank on that being moneyhats.  

I'll probably try and continue this later...

[wushupants]

I think Nintendo should listen to the fans.

N'uff sed

[InfinitysEnd]

and when HASN'T Nintendo listened to it's fans!?
US: "WAhhh I want a new Metroid game!!"
N: "Let it be so."
US: "WAHHHh I want a realistic Zelda game!!!"
N: "Let it be so."
US: "WAHHHHh!!! I want online capabilities!!"
N: "Let it be so."

The only thing Nintendo's doing wrong is not making themselves "hip" enough to appeal to a mass-market.  And for all those doubters, YES, it is a GOOD thing to be appealing to a mass-market.  You get more userbase, and lo and behold *gasp* more games for your console because developers actually WANT to develop for your system since they actually think they'll make some money off of it!  Ain't that grand?

[JubJub]

Just make the Revolution worth buying as a must have console and release better-than-average non-franchised games onto other consoles. That's the future. Keep mario, and wario or whatever but give games like 1080 and Fzero a shot on the PS3 and Xbox2. Hell, they'd probably learn a thing or two about their competitors business strategies and improve as a result.

[darknight06]

Yeah, cuz that's going to REALLY help their bottom line.  Those games would bomb over there so fast your head would spin,  what the heck does Sony or Microsoft need those franchises for? I'm sorry but that's probably the most garbage crap I've heard all day.  

Nintendo's never going to be no. 1 again, I don't care what Reggie or Iwata have to say about that.  Get over it.