Topic: Must-read IGN editorial on Nintendo and upcoming E3 show

[Gamebasher]

Well spoken!

It´s definitely important to be able to criticize the ones you love. In particular Nintendo.  I never buy anything but Nintendo hardware and software, as owning an xbox made me feel it was a bad deal! Bad atmosphere, from too many crude games that are too superficial, or too samey overall.

Then, when I play Nintendo´s games, I feel blessed. They are really something special that no other gamemaker can make. So therefore if they´re off the mark, I criticize them! If they stray too far away from mine and other peoples taste. I don´t pretend to know-it-all about peoples tastes, but I go to great lenghts finding it out by looking at the internet forums, websites and elsewhere. Then I know I am either not alone in my viewpoint, or all alone!

But recently, I was backed up by most people who, like me, wanted the realistic Zelda. And lo and behold - we got it! Somewhere along the line, Nintendo must have heard all of us worldwide voicing our opinion and gave us what we wanted. That in itself serves as a brilliant example of how unrelenting, unbiased and sound criticism will yield results.

Some fanboys live in their own private dream, unable to criticize. That way things get static, and nothing will be good for anyone. We have to speak up if you have something you are annoyed about in a Nintendo game or in anything, and hope that a lot of people will think the same. That way, you have a foundation for furthering that criticism.  

[PaLaDiN]

"PS2 has an online program that didn't cost Sony billions. Nintendo doesn't need XBOX live, but they need SOMETHING so people have the option like with the PS2."

They already HAVE the same service as the PS2, they just don't push it as much because it SUCKS. Don't kid yourself... the only way any of the people whining for online will stop bitching is if Nintendo offers Nintendo Live. It seems we're not the only ones in denial here.

Oh, and I guarantee Nintendo is more familiar with the video game world than both you and IGN, Artimus.

[Artimus]

Ok, fine. I give up. You say anything on this forum that isn't kissing Nintendo's ass and you get attacked for it. I guess I'll stick to threads about Sony and MS because it seems criticism is only allowed there.

[PaLaDiN]

Is that right... yeah, I guess you're right, people who don't kiss Nintendo's ass deserve special protection and should never be attacked no matter how retarded their reasoning is.

But sure, walk away with your head held high. We're Nintendo fanboys, don't waste time trying to bring us up to your lofty levels of intellect, we're too stupid and in denial to understand you.

[Savior]

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This forum baffles me. IGN posts a smart article outlining some good points (remember, they're not jsut writing for hardcore fans who know everything Iwata says) and you guys attack them for it.

Pretty much, but the general Nintendo fanboy likes the position Nintendo is at now. A minority  like ian sane  and myself actually want better. Were not conformed with third place. Id like to see Nintendo go back to the glory days of the SNES. Thats why the general Nintendo populace loves to bash every single IGN article, even those few times (Like this one) Where they are Right.

The article is great, it makes sense, its true. The Revolution or Reggilution has to trully be great for Nintendo to turn the tables....

[Dasmos]

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Originally posted by: Savior

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This forum baffles me. IGN posts a smart article outlining some good points (remember, they're not jsut writing for hardcore fans who know everything Iwata says) and you guys attack them for it.

Pretty much, but the general Nintendo fanboy likes the position Nintendo is at now. A minority  like ian sane  and myself actually want better. Were not conformed with third place. Id like to see Nintendo go back to the glory days of the SNES. Thats why the general Nintendo populace loves to bash every single IGN article, even those few times (Like this one) Where they are Right.

The article is great, it makes sense, its true. The Revolution or Reggilution has to trully be great for Nintendo to turn the tables....

I do not think you are in minority. Many want more from nintendo but are satisfied merely by the fact that nintendo are still alive....

[Gamebasher]

Savior, you wrote:

"Id like to see Nintendo go back to the glory days of the SNES. Thats why the general Nintendo populace loves to bash every single IGN article, even those few times (Like this one) Where they are Right."

So do I, and so do probably everybody on the PGC Forum (unless they are Sony fanboys or xbox-alike in disguise), since such an envious position at the top of the videogaming world will mean a whole flood of videogames and other advantages to gamers, that noone would mind having. So bashing IGN for being rude with Nintendo is only appropriate WHEN they are, and not when they aren´t, as forgiveness is as important as is criticism.

If you criticise somebody, and next ban them for life, it´s not like the criticism in the first place would serve any other purpose than egoistical protection of ones given favourites in life! Criticism should be constructive, purposefull and precise. Not futile or even ridiculous. So I´d give IGN the thumbs up, when they are to the point about something related to Nintendo. Sometimes I suspect that they´re too anti-Nintendo, but anyone who is such, would definitely NOT write a feature so honest and concise as the one I have linked to in this topic! Keep it up IGN.
 

[Avinash_Tyagi]

I have no problem IGN critizizing Nintendo, I have a problem with them thinking they have all the answers.

Online is not a profitable idea for Nintendo nor does more than 2% of gamers use it so it won't save nintendo.

Nor does Nintendo need to show anything Playable at E3, showing it before its ready would be stupid not to mention unnecessary as they are not releasing the Rev this year.

Nintendo as well is hardly in dire strits as IGN likes to infer, first place is nothing if you can't keep your profit margins up, better to be third with filled coffers than first or second with empty ones.  

[PaLaDiN]

Careful Avinash, apparently you shouldn't praise Nintendo around these parts because it baffles people.

What's this "glory days of the SNES" nonsense? I love the GC so far, I think it has some much better games than I ever played on SNES, and I played all the good ones.

Unless of course by glory days you mean when it was first in this stupid contest. Is that why you bought a GC? Do you think that's going to happen with Revolution? Prepare to be disappointed.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

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Careful Avinash, apparently you shouldn't praise Nintendo around these parts because it baffles people.

Yes that does seem to be the prevailing attitude.

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Unless of course by glory days you mean when it was first in this stupid contest. Is that why you bought a GC? Do you think that's going to happen with Revolution? Prepare to be disappointed.

Yeap people seem to be so obsessed with Nintendo being in third place they forget its doing so well financially and continue to innovate far more than their competitors

[Savior]

People need to get off the "were doing fine" bandwagon as well. Last time i heard it was when Rick Powers had Nintendos financial numbers and wrote about it on this site.

Check out Nintendos financial report for the last quarter. It wasnt that pretty

Being first equals more third party support which equals better games. We all want better games.

And id love to see how the current Nintendo GCN lineup can somehow be better than the SNES, Super Mario World, Mario RPG, Secret of Mana, The Final Fantasies, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Chrono Frigging Trigger the greatest game ever created?  

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Yeah, I read it they were forecasting a profit, you know, money in the bank, so I fail to see how it is anything bad.  Where is the talk about Sony and Microsoft's game divisions about their losses, heck MS only gained some profit recently, entirely due to Halo 2.  Sony on the other hand is losing money and no one says anything.  

[Savior]

Sony hasnt lost money for months Avinash...  

[Bill Aurion]

"Being first equals more third party support which equals better games. We all want better games."

Well the last I saw, most 3rd party software is bunk...  And most of the good ones are on the Gamecube anyway, with only a few exceptions...(Of course, this is my own gaming tastes playing here)

And I'd also love to play with these SNES games you have here...

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Super Mario World  VS  Super Mario Sunshine
--Not too surprising, as SMW is even better than SM64...Pure 2d goodness...Though you never know what SM128 will bring, so let's just hold on to that one

Mario RPG  VS  Paper Mario 2
--Hey I love Mario RPG, but it's hilarious how people can even match it to the incredible installments of Paper Mario 2 AND Mario & Luigi...Both games are funnier and have a lot more to do...

Secret of Mana VS
--Uh oh, nothing to compare this to...But SHOCK, Brownie Brown has a new GC project in the works, so we'll have to wait on this fight as well...Secret of Mana is so freaking overrated

Final Fantasy VS Final Fantasy: CC
--Both of these fail due to BOREDOM (can't stand FF games)

Street Fighter VS GC Fighting games
--Do you mean 2d or what?  Because I can't stand 2d fighting games or most fighting games in general...Both Soul Calibur II and SSBM rock SF everywhere...

Mortal Kombat VS LAWL
--Look above

Chrono Frigging Trigger VS GC RPGs
--Time to make DrZ angry and say that while CT is fun, it's nowhere near the best...I easily enjoyed PM2, Tales of Symphonia, and several other RPGs more...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gamecube wins...Even though you didn't list LttP, which was the silliest thing that you could ever do...Since LttP edges out WW (and every other Zelda game except Link's Awakening and Minish Cap)

The one thing that the SNES continues to reign in is the platform category, which is understandable since everyone hates 2d these days...2d + console = formula for disaster

[PaLaDiN]

"Being first equals more third party support which equals better games. We all want better games."

Which makes sense, except it isn't actually the case... GCN has my favorite lineup of games for any console ever.

"And id love to see how the current Nintendo GCN lineup can somehow be better than the SNES, Super Mario World, Mario RPG, Secret of Mana, The Final Fantasies, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Chrono Frigging Trigger the greatest game ever created?"

Chrono Frigging Trigger isn't the greatest game ever created, Metroid Prime and Grim Fandango are. But anyway:

Tales of Symphonia > Secret of Mana + FF.
Paper Mario 2 > Mario RPG.
I never got into fighting games, except for Soul Blade.

Why don't you show me some SNES counterparts to SSBM, Pikmin 2, Resident Evil 4, Viewtiful Joe and Eternal Darkness?

The only really awesome games on SNES that still play well to this day are LttP, Super Metroid and Chrono Trigger. But none of them even come close to Metroid Prime.

This is of course all my opinion, and I've played all those games.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

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Sony hasnt lost money for months Avinash...

We'll see once the numbers for the current quarter come out, from what i've read Sony has been losing money on each PSP sold, and the software sales have been dismal

[Savior]

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Why don't you show me some SNES counterparts to SSBM, Pikmin 2, Resident Evil 4, Viewtiful Joe and Eternal Darkness?

Ill try. Super Castlevania, Super Contra, Earthworm Jim, Act Raiser (Screaming for an update) Ninja Gaiden Trilogy (yeah its a port, but a brilliant one.) The Rare Donkey Kong games, Pilot Wings, Earthbound, Super Mario Kart, Ogre Battle ,Breath of Fire 2, Yoshis Island, F-Zero, Super Punch Out, Shadowrun, Mega Man X,  and Star Fox.

I cheated slightly with some of my picks, but you cant blame me. All of these titles were Excelent. The SNES had a much bigger variety of all genres. While the GCN has quality games but not enough variety. Thats always been my biggest complaint with the GCN. Of course you might not agree because you seem to not like the same Genres as i do.

[SgtShiversBen]

Those are being kinda repetative don't you think Savior.  We're comparing TYPES (or genres) or games not names.  The Viewtiful JOes could easily defeat those, as with Alien Hominid.  Pilot Wings can't be beat because nothing else comes out in the area (but you could say Monkey Target).  Mario Kart was beat in my opinion by Burnout 2.  Ogre Battle was still beat by ToS or Baiten Kaitos.  Never played Breath of Fire so help me.  Yoshi's Island is still in the 2d realm.  F-Zero's ass was kicked by GX in my opinion again.  Punch Out is still one of a kind.  Mega Man was beat along with my Viewtiful Joes.  Star Fox is still one of a kind (unless you wanna call Ikaruga the same, then SF gets whupped.)

[couchmonkey]

1. Profit vs. Survival:  Yes, Nintendo is profitable, but it's shrinking.  When many of us say that Nintendo has something to prove next generation, it's not just that we want Nintendo to be in first place: the real problem is that Nintendo is losing customers every generation.  If Nintendo was in third place with 40 million GameCubes sold, I wouldn't be so worried, but as far as I know GameCube is on track to sell fewer units than the N64, which sold less than the Super Nintendo which sold less than the NES.  Nintendo has to be competitive or it will eventually shrink to death.

2. Stealing connectivity: This is the only significant idea anyone has stolen from Nintendo in a while, and frankly, connectivity turned out to be a lame duck anyway.  I don't think Nintendo has mentioned a single connectivity game so far this year, and I fully expect Nintendo to ignore connectivity until Revolution comes out...possibly well beyond.  Besides which, Sony is stealing the idea a full three years after Nintendo had it.  Nintendo can't protect its ideas forever!

3. Revolution When?  In spite of what I just said, I don't think Nintendo necessarily needs to show everything this year. If the Revolution is easy to copy, and if it's not coming out until the last half of 2006, Nintendo could easily recapture everyone's interest with a really good E3 show in 2006.  Just give us the basic details and pretty pictures of Mario and friends for now. However, if Revolution is going to launch in the first half of 2006, then yes, I think a big show is needed this year.

4. Online: It isn't (very) profitable, but it's something people want, and I think it's going to continue to get bigger and bigger.  Seriously, if Nintendo had real online play in place for certain games (Mario Kart, Star Fox, maybe even Metroid Prime 2) I think it would attract a lot of attention.  I know I'd be playing them!  As it is, I bought a broadband adapter to play Mario Kart online with Warp Pipe, but never used it because I don't have time to build and manage my own "friends list".  But maybe it's a moot point because I think Nintendo is already preparing for online gaming.

[Gamebasher]

Couchmonkey,

"1. Profit vs. Survival: Yes, Nintendo is profitable, but it's shrinking. When many of us say that Nintendo has something to prove next generation, it's not just that we want Nintendo to be in first place: the real problem is that Nintendo is losing customers every generation. If Nintendo was in third place with 40 million GameCubes sold, I wouldn't be so worried, but as far as I know GameCube is on track to sell fewer units than the N64, which sold less than the Super Nintendo which sold less than the NES. Nintendo has to be competitive or it will eventually shrink to death."

...I am totally surprised!

Where do you get those financial data from? If this is really the case then Nintendo is shrinking with each generation. Yet, only in the tv-console market, since the GB and GBA plus GBA SP have sold really well. For the tv-consoles, things should hopefully be reversed when the new "Revolution" console comes out. And thus the IGN article´s very message to Nintendo is more important than anything right now. I hope Nintendo see and read it! They should have people see such opinions on the internet.

In all truth: It´s one thing to fear copycats, another to lose momentum for not jumping on the hypewagon in time!

I really don´t know if Nintendo knows what they´re doing. Maybe they do, maybe they don´t. I just hope it´s the first one!! They might simply not care if they make a huge impact with their new console at E3, following a safe marketing plan. Which would be beautifull. Dead-secretive, dead-smart.

Will be great to see Reggie in action once more. Knock´em down Reggie!!! Blow us all away! Then we´ll be not driving home from E3, but fly!!

 

[Talon]

I think Nintendo will show the revolution when they believe is the best time. Whether it be at E3 or not.

There are positives for showing it at E3 mainly:
-the world is watching this event
-alot of developers and industry experts will be at this event
-the public will also get a sneak preview of whats to come in the future.

Since Nintendo is going with the revolutionary angle for their next console dont you think that they are going
to want to spotlight this console and try and get as many people's attention as humanly possible?

So here are the negatives for showing the Revolution at E3
-The fact that both xbox 2 and playstation 3 are going to be show cased there. Whether you like it or  not alot of people already have intrest in these consoles and will most likey be hanging around these booths to try and sponge as much information they can get out of sony and microsoft.
-Not only will sony and microsoft be trying to steal Nintendo's thunder but Nintendo themselves will be their own worst enemy at this years E3 with the likes of the new Zelda and possibly a new Mario.
-The Nintendo DS im sure will have a big presence also with the play chan and a host of new games Nintendo has been working on.
-The gameboy Advance with its new games.

So the revolution is gonna have a bit of work cut out for it, if its to make an impact in the hearts of gamers and the industy.

Personally I think Nintendo wont show it at E3 and wait for a later date when more foccus can be put on the revolution.  However I do in fact believe Nintendo will make an announcement about the revolution that will give the media enough to write about until they are ready to unveil it.

Also if they were wise they would have a behind closed doors conference with the developers at E3 to try and get the skeptical ones on board and give out development kits.

[Caillan]

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The fact that both xbox 2 and playstation 3 are going to be show cased there.

Sony has confirmed the PS3 will be revealed before E3.

The problem with grandly unveiling the Revoluton at E3 is that nobody's going to care. The mainsteram media want their 'dark Zelda', and American developers are sufficently enamored with Microsoft and Sony to ignore Nintendo anyway. A large Japanese trade show would be better for Nintendo in my opinion, though I'm personally not too fussed about Western third party support. Too bad the upcomming Tokyo Game Show's theme is 'online gaming'.  

[Ian Sane]

"Not only will sony and microsoft be trying to steal Nintendo's thunder but Nintendo themselves will be their own worst enemy at this years E3 with the likes of the new Zelda and possibly a new Mario."

I think if anything the presence of major Cube games would help Nintendo.  It would allow Nintendo to dominate show coverage.  Nintendo's at this point where a multiplatform mag or site will only focus on the really big stuff regarding them.  Zelda, a new Mario and a new console will be focused on and Nintendo will have three big items at E3 that can't be ignored.  You can either open up EGM and see three pages or more on Nintendo's E3 showing or see only one page with an odd blurb here or there.  Nintendo dominating E3 would be the best thing to create hype about the Revolution because the gaming media are the first ones you have to win over to create hype.  Get the gaming media interested and they'll provide constant coverage which gets their readers talking and the next thing you know EB clerks are asking everyone if they've pre-ordered yet.  How else do you think an average FPS like Halo became so huge?

[Savior]

The problem with grandly unveiling the Revoluton at E3 is that nobody's going to care

If its "Trully" revolutionary they will care

[Spak-Spang]

Here are some facts that we know and some speculations.

1)Nintendo is very secretive and they don't like to release any information about games or hardware until they feel it is in a presentable form and able to get good press.

2)Nintendo also distrusts releasing information early for fear of people copying ideas.

3)Ian Sane is correct, all launch games, and hardware for all three systems are being worked on and finalized now.  None of the systems can be drastically changed at this point, and remain capable of hitting their launch date.

So my question is what is Nintendo afraid of?  It Nintendo wanted to they could do the exact same unveiling for the Revolution they did for the DS.  Show playable tech demos that represents games that will be out for the system but aren't ready to fully show.

With just a year away from launch for the next to systems Nintendo could really sucker punch the competition by 1)Showing games for the Gamecube that proves you don't have to upgrade your console yet.  RE4, Legend of Zelda, potentially Pokemon Gamecube can do all this.  2)  Start creating hype that PROVES what they have been saying about next generation and their Revolution.  It must be playable.

Now, another option is to not have it playable at the show, but behind curtains allow all the editors of the Magizines and the internet sites to play it.  Make them feel special, and allow them to hype the system.  This may be a much better and cheaper approach that will bring similar results.