Author Topic: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan  (Read 39243 times)

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2005, 09:04:27 PM »
You can always rely on Ian to spread gloom and doom for Nintendo. I still believe the price of PSP is going to be a huge kicker (especially the ridiculous prices at Gamestop.com and ebgames) along with 50$ games. One thing I've never understood though is that Sony always talks like the PS brand name is for older gamers, how does a portable system fall into the older gamer bracket? Chances are anyone over 21 is not going to have time to play a portable statistically.
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Offline Artimus

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2005, 09:37:46 PM »
Why can't Nintendo just DO things. They're not going to ruin themselves anymore than they already are.

There is no more risk in making an online plan than there is in not making one. Some people want to pay, so let them. Then when you figure out how not to charge, do so. But don't alienate those who want to play Mario Kart online. It's stupid.

Offline PaLaDiN

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2005, 10:01:20 PM »
"There is no more risk in making an online plan than there is in not making one."
Making an online plan costs money. Not making an online plan costs no money.

"Some people want to pay, so let them."
They'll still lose money. Do you have any idea how much money MS sank into the black hole that is Live just to get the amount of subscribers they have today?

"Then when you figure out how not to charge, do so."
You're missing the point. The whole reason they're trying to figure out how not to charge is so they don't waste money building a service that's worth charging in the first place.

"But don't alienate those who want to play Mario Kart online. It's stupid."
You're right, the vast amount of money you're asking them to throw out the window is the intelligent thing to do.

I personally don't want them to waste ANY time, money or effort on taking games online. I'm sick of online, I get enough of it from my PC. I want them to keep making games and ignoring people like you. I don't care if Nintendo never goes online, because they can survive even if nobody who wants to go online buys their system.
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Offline Darkheart

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RE:psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2005, 02:12:33 AM »
Quote

I personally don't want them to waste ANY time, money or effort on taking games online. I'm sick of online, I get enough of it from my PC. I want them to keep making games and ignoring people like you. I don't care if Nintendo never goes online, because they can survive even if nobody who wants to go online buys their system.


You know this is becoming ridiculous, just because you get to play games online on your PC that is your reason why I cant play my Ds online.  Listen, I see the Ds as a giant test product for them.  The touch screen the microphone and everything about the Ds is testing the ground for Nintendo.  They could overall see if online would be a market they like to do by setting it up for the Ds and just using it for the Ds.  If they end up doing it and doing it well they could port the service over  to the Revolution.  Oh yeah one more thing since you want  them to keep ignoring people like me, you might as well not say it at all.  I hope they start listening to their fan base and ask them for what they want.  Man, if Ninty actually went and listened to their fans they could be doing 200% better than sony.  Think about it how much advice could this site alone give Nintendo to do better.........

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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE:psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2005, 03:24:01 AM »
I have to agree with Ian that I am upset with Nintendo.  I have a DS and I haven't played it for a month...because I beat my Mario 64 DS, and I want more, and I am curious to see what Nintendo is planning with its online model for DS.

Where I differ is that I see the games that will come out for the DS and I am genuinely excited.  Super Mario Kart, Wario Ware Touch, Animal Crossing, Kirby, Yoshi Touch N Go, Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Polarium, Advanced Wars DS, these are all top-rated games, and although they are sequels they are beloved sequels that will be great to play.  

If you notice I listed 10 games for the DS.  Nintendo could easily release one game a month now until Christmas of this year for the DS.  I just wish Nintendo would release the games earlier.  They have several of them finished and ready to release or close to it.  The reason they are holding off is there stupid idea that 2 of their games can't sell in the same month.  I say release 3 games at once to compete with PSP this March, and I will be happy.  I don't care if that causes a drought of games in the coming months...that drought would allow me time to pick them all up.

As for online being the future...yeah online is the future, but how many years will it be until we actually have stable online gaming?  Don't try to tell me we have it now.  Eventually, in the future I see every game attempting online play, just because its neccessary to sell and they will be horrible.  Conker's Bad Fur day for Nintendo 64 is a great example.  The multiplayer was horrid, but it was put in there.  Now imagine other great single player games with crappy multiplayer just because people wouldn't buy it because its not online.  If online is the future it may not be a pretty future.


Offline mantidor

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RE:psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2005, 05:06:43 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Savior
online is way overated, of course in an internet forum most people just cant get that simple fact.

Maybe on handhelds... On Consoles its a way of life now. You might not like it but the majority does.


whats the percentage of ps2 and xbox owners that go online? its not bigger than 30%, sorry, but thats not the majority.

A more simple example, Halo 2 has already sold almost 6 millions copies, how many xbox live users are? two million at most, and Im exagerating, again its far from being the majority.

Then again Im not saying that online is bad, its just not mainstream for now, but it will be big in the future.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2005, 05:57:43 AM »
People say "nintendo needs online for the DS" but don't seem to realize that online entails more than importing a netcode library and throwing a few packets at it. Online requires a server network that can handle the load. Those are EXPENSIVE. If DS online bombed Nintendo would be stuck with a set of costy servers eating money with very little return. You can't just switch off such a network when you realize nobody wants it, there'll always be a few hundred people using it and a few hundred thousands more claiming they'll start using it "someday". Switching the servers off will piss off all of the people using them and those who were thinking about using them (even though they might never have used them). It would create a really negative image for Nintendo since I'm sure at least 90 of the 100 users are writers for some magazine or website. And I'm sure Sony and MS would take every chance they could to badmouth Nintendo for switching off their online service.

Offline PaLaDiN

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2005, 06:30:19 AM »
"You know this is becoming ridiculous, just because you get to play games online on your PC that is your reason why I cant play my Ds online. Listen, I see the Ds as a giant test product for them. The touch screen the microphone and everything about the Ds is testing the ground for Nintendo. They could overall see if online would be a market they like to do by setting it up for the Ds and just using it for the Ds. If they end up doing it and doing it well they could port the service over to the Revolution. Oh yeah one more thing since you want them to keep ignoring people like me, you might as well not say it at all. I hope they start listening to their fan base and ask them for what they want. Man, if Ninty actually went and listened to their fans they could be doing 200% better than sony. Think about it how much advice could this site alone give Nintendo to do better........."

Ridiculous as opposed to what? You're saying that if I want them to keep their money for games that's ridiculous? Just because you want to play online I have to deal with lower budget games?

I'm part of their fan base too, remember? And I want good games, not online. Good call there, they should listen to me. And I'm in the majority, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise... the majority either does not have online or does not want online.

"As for online being the future...yeah online is the future, but how many years will it be until we actually have stable online gaming? Don't try to tell me we have it now."

No, no. Online is the past. And it's a very unremarkable past at that. We don't just have it now, we've had it for years in a much better form than all the console fanboys are wetting their pants over, and EVEN THEN it's still just an overhyped service. You're telling me Nintendo should be wasting their money developing an inferior form of something I'm thoroughly sick of? I'm glad they're ignoring you.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2005, 06:36:01 AM »
"thats why Nintendo said 'gamers dont want online', they want to please us as much as they can"

You cannot please as much as you can with limitations.  You can only please as much as you can with OPTIONS.  That's what online gaming is, an OPTION for those that want it.  People without internet can still play Mario Kart with their friends if it has online multiplayer.  There's no rule that an online game can only be played online.

Halo 2 is an online game and it has sold more copies than there are Live users.  So an online game has sold HUGE with an offline audience.  Providing online multiplayer for games alienates NO ONE.  Staying offline alienates more and more each year.

And regardless of who want it the PSP has it so the DS has to match.  When people see that one system has a feature the other doesn't they assume the one with the extra feature is better and pay more attention to it even if they have no desire to use that feature.  They want the option so if they change their mind later they can use it.

Offline PaLaDiN

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2005, 06:44:08 AM »
Yes, it's an option, but is it an option worth spending a whole load of money on?

"Providing online multiplayer for games alienates NO ONE"

Yes it does, the people who want amazing single player games. I think it's funny how you gave Halo 2 as an example. Just look at the single player in that game, for heaven's sake. Are you telling me if they didn't work on online the single player wouldn't be any better than it is now?

If Halo 2 was offline I might actually have bought an Xbox for it.
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Offline vudu

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2005, 06:47:41 AM »
I'm going to agree with Paladin on this one.  I haven't played Halo 2 yet, but from what I hear the single player campaign isn't that hot.  So while Halo 2 might sell by the truck load, will Halo 3?  (Yeah, probably.  But work with me here.)  If people who don't play online were disappointed with Halo 2, they'll probably thinnk twice about getting Halo 3, even if it's on Xbox 2.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2005, 07:07:49 AM »
"Yes it does, the people who want amazing single player games."

Doesn't multiplayer period potentially do that?  It depends on the developer.  Halo 2 supposed doesn't have that great of single player but then neither does Halo.  Metroid Prime 2 however has multiplayer and it didn't hurt the single player game at all.  Some devs can do it some can't.  Plus those offline also bought Halo 2 for it's offline multiplayer.  So it didn't alienate any offline gamers, just those without friends.  Mario Kart and SSB also are pretty crappy for single players.  That's just how multiplayer games are.  Interestingly enough online play allows for those without friends to play with at home to play with others.

Your arguement applies more to multiplayer not online play.  I guess we should go with one controller port because having 4 is hurting single player games.  Somehow the PS2 and Xbox are both online yet quality single player games exist for them.

Offline Hostile Creation

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2005, 07:40:18 AM »
I still don't care, but for their sake I certainly hope Nintendo does something about this.  And preferably for free, because I would actually use my DS online
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Offline Artimus

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2005, 07:44:00 AM »
Nintendo is rich, they can afford to waste some money with online play. THEY ARE DYING because they refuse to offer options. And quite frankly I'm beginning to see the type of mentality they must have. You're saying basically, because it costs money and you don't want it, to ignore it.

Offline SgtShiversBen

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RE:psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2005, 09:32:25 AM »
Well when the consoles back in the day all jumped to the CD bandwagon we all saw how good they did.  Jaguar, Sega, Philips, Panasonic all died out because of this.  Even though it's an irrelivant arguement, I still don't see what the big deal about online is.  I play like one game online (console wise) and that's because it's free.  I won't get any game that requires me to pay more so that way I can play with people, it's kinda a rip off.  Sure most people don't have time or friends to play with, well that's their fault.  They can make friends can't they?  

I do think online would be a great ADDITION, but I don't think it's necessary.  Some of y'all might, but that's the beauty of opinions.  Like I said earlier, I want to just play some games on here that I can't play at home when I want to and not have to worry about wether or not I'm going to get kicked off, if I can find a hot spot or any of that goodness.  Oh well, continue your arguing but in the end both sides are right.  Sad what's become of the game industry.  We think of it as a business instead of entertainment.
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Offline PaLaDiN

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2005, 09:43:06 AM »
"Nintendo is rich, they can afford to waste some money with online play."
You haven't seen the Xbox live cost numbers have you.

"THEY ARE DYING because they refuse to offer options."
That's extremely arguable and opinionated.

"You're saying basically, because it costs money and you don't want it, to ignore it."
I'm saying basically, because it costs money, time and effort and adds NOTHING to my experience, to ignore it. You're saying basically, because you want it, they should waste money giving it to you. If that's the kind of logic that makes sense to you, then I want my Gamecube to have a waffle iron. It won't alienate anybody, right? That's what I'm saying, online to me is like a waffle iron to you. Now let's make this a bit more analogous... I'm asking for Nintendo to offer a waffle iron that takes a billion dollars to produce. Are you going to be happy about that?

"Doesn't multiplayer period potentially do that?"

You know you're setting up a straw man right now. The difference between online and regular multiplayer is that online takes a whole different level of cost and effort to make, and even with exorbitant development time and cost (Halo 2) if the game tries to include online worth noticing, then the single player will most likely suck. If Metroid Prime 2 was online, the single player would suck. Regular multiplayer I can bear because the resources it takes won't hit the singleplayer quality that hard.

"Somehow the PS2 and Xbox are both online yet quality single player games exist for them."

That right there is where you're missing my point. You say there's quality single player games existing for them... but how many more would there be if online didn't exist? Would developers be able to get away with "Game 2: Game 1, now with online!", like they're doing now?
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Offline darknight06

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RE:psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2005, 09:55:54 AM »
"Metroid Prime 2 however has multiplayer and it didn't hurt the single player game at all. Some devs can do it some can't."

Yeah, but that game's multiplayer was an afterthought and the amount of time devoted to it could've been sent to the real reason we played that game to begin with, the main adventure itself.  

When are people gonna realize Nintendo is a GAME COMPANY.  A GAME COMPANY!  They are not Sony where they have an electronics division.  They are not Microsoft who has the funds from their OS and wherever else right now to get money.  Both of those companies are conglomerates with more assets than Nintendo probably ever had in the lifespan of the entire company.  Yeah, Sony and Microsoft can throw money into online and lose some here and there, yeah some shareholders might not be too happy about it, but who cares?  As long as something major doesn't go wrong anywhere else in the company they won't have much to worry about.  

"People say "nintendo needs online for the DS" but don't seem to realize that online entails more than importing a netcode library and throwing a few packets at it. Online requires a server network that can handle the load. Those are EXPENSIVE. If DS online bombed Nintendo would be stuck with a set of costy servers eating money with very little return."

Precisely, and once again yeah Nintendo is  a game company, rich or no.  Right now console online gaming is still the endeavor of a minority of the gaming populace.  Didn't we just hear not that long ago that X-Box live just broke a million?  A million out of how many total owners?  12mil? 13mil?  Once again, Microsoft can afford the blow of $2.4+ billion on it.  Now if Nintendo were to do something similar (which btw is what most devs have gone on the record saying they would want them to do this), get approx the same count of online gamers out of total system owners, and lose the same amount of money off it,  all I'll say is that the doom and gloom arguments you're seeing from the media now would be compliments compared to the armageddon that they'll probably start spewing then.  Now also keep in mind that they want this to be as accessable to as many as possible, probably wanting to either make it extremely low cost or free.  If after that we're still looking at a minority of gamers online, unless they have somekind of miracle solution that will probably screw them up in ways that will affect the rest of the company's operations.  And the last thing I want to see is a compromise in game or hardware development because a few people couldn't live without their online Mario Kart.

"No, no. Online is the past. And it's a very unremarkable past at that. We don't just have it now, we've had it for years in a much better form than all the console fanboys are wetting their pants over..."

So true, and this alone is one of the things I personally don't like about the current online gaming situation on a console.  Most console online games had died for me because after playing the initial multiplayer aspect of them to death, they got boring and there was really nothing else to really mess with.  This might be my PC online gaming experience talking here, but the ability to mod was what kept most titles going long after you got tired of the original multiplayer games.  People being able to make their own games within games.  Tides of Blood in Warcraft 3 is an example of this as well as many other mods that have been done in various other games.  

With that said, Nintendo WILL eventually go online, I don't have a single doubt about that.  All the rumors about Square-Enix and the rumblings at IGN (yeah, I know...) all hint at it.  Not to mention the fact they put 802.11b WiFi hardware and a jack for a headset on the system.  I seriously doubt that they'll neglect it considering that everybody had to pay for that hardware, unlike with the GC modem and broadband adapters.  

Offline Gamefreak

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2005, 11:09:34 AM »
So what are we arguing about again?
We all know the DS is going online and we all know it will have online voice chat so yeah let's stop arguing since it won't affect anything.


Offline PaLaDiN

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2005, 11:35:00 AM »
"We all know the DS is going online and we all know it will have online voice chat so yeah let's stop arguing since it won't affect anything."

No, actually. When the DS and Revolution go online and people start complaining about how much the games suck I can be like Ian and complain about how Nintendo never listened to my advice in the beginning. I'm thinking long-term here, pre-bitching and all that.
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Offline Savior

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RE:psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2005, 12:03:13 PM »
mantidor, Xbox Live is a broadband only service it makes sense that it wont have an incredible amount of people, Its still been incredibly succesfull. Halo 2, outsold most everything. Its online didnt affect the single player. (The complaints of The single player have NOTHING to do with its Quality, but the fact that you dont play the whole game as Master Chief)

Hell Socom 1 and 2 have  been incredibly succesfull too. Look the sales figures are there, the numbers are there. Online play is 1.Succesfull, 2.A selling point. 3.Here to stay and Nintendo better adapt.
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Offline jarob

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2005, 01:08:25 PM »
Why do you think having online games hurts single player games?  Make money with online games, use that money to make more online games.  Very simple.  Does not affect single player games.  You know, it is possible to have both.  Halo 1 obviously made enough money for creating Halo 2.  Expand your horzions.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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RE:psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2005, 01:22:42 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
"Nintendo is rich, they can afford to waste some money with online play."
You haven't seen the Xbox live cost numbers have you.



Do U have these #'s?

Offline thepoga

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2005, 02:25:48 PM »
I totally thought Nintendo would actually USE the 3 and a half month head start they have over the PSP. I'm still waiting for a good multiplayer game that I can at least use to play my brother who bought one for that reason. It's hard to find someone with another cart of a game, which is why the DS Download feature is really great. Online play would further eliminate the factors needed to play a multiplayer game. And the only good game that came out in January was Zoo Keeper. Actually it was the only game. But it's overpriced. But I'm getting off topic. Nintendo didn't use the time they had to release a single game where you could connect to someone else online. I just cant believe it. And the only games that are possibly online are Metroid, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, and they are way later in the year. That's possibly 3 games for this whole year. I'm not saying that games should have to be online to be fun or something, but what games right now, besides mario 64 and Feel the Magic are fun? And they are the only games that utilize the DS features well (mario64's minigames). Nintendo could stand to release a 1st party online game that is perfectly suited to be an online game. Or they could release more games in general. : )

Offline mantidor

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2005, 03:04:08 PM »
Halo sold a lot, but games sell a lot based on marketing and hype, pokemon and GTA also sold through the roof and they didnt have any online feature at all. If the problem was broadband, then ps2 online service should be thirving,  but it isnt, Id be surprised if the number of ps2 owners who go online is above 20%. Is a very simple fact: number of offline gamers > number of online gamers. If you were a company which group would you catter the most?

And still Nintendo made the gamecube online capable, and most of you seem to forget about phantasy star, Nintendo didnt have a solid online plan, of course, they had zero online experience and they hadnt found a way to make money out of it, but they give you the option, devs if they wanted could make online games, why they didnt do it? I have no idea ask them.

ok, Im being a bit "ranty"... the problem is I get a little upset when internet forumites dont release they are biased in some way about online, but when you live in a country where internet is still a luxury I think that gives you a more objective view on things.
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Offline jarob

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RE: psp is online now wheres nintendos plan
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2005, 03:17:28 PM »
Mario Cart - single player and online.  Why not have both in a game?  This does not have to be an either or situation.   I dont see what the big deal is.