Topic: Rumor: Factor 5's new game is in limbo

[Ian Sane]

Remember when Factor 5 was awesome?  Then they go to the competition and they suck and it's good they went under.  Now I'll admit that Lair was crap but overall Factor 5 was a very talented developer and true videogame fans should be upset about their demise.  It just goes to show that too many Nintendo fans on this forum treat it like a sports team - all that matters is that Nintendo wins.

And I hate all this "well they should have supported the Wii" crap.  When Factor 5 made the decision to go to Sony it seemed like a logical idea.  Sony was the market leader, Nintendo was irrelevent nothing risking everything on an untapped part of the mainstream that may never show interest.  The only people who were betting on the Wii were die-hard Nintendo fanboys and for most of them the only justification for that decision was "Nintendo is awesome and thus will win".  There's very few people that I can look back on their ideas at the time and say they were right.  Most of you just fluked out because you would have picked Nintendo no matter what.

So don't be all smug about being right and enjoying talented developers going under because of one bad game.  You're as right as the devoted fan who picks his home team to win the title EVERY YEAR and then is all "I TOLD YOU SO" when they finally do, ignoring all the years he made the same prediction and they missed the playoffs completely.

What would have been good is if after a bust on the PS3 Factor 5 and Free Radical returned to Nintendo and started making Wii games.  That is what we've lost because they went under.

Nobody deserves to go broke because they dropped Nintendo.  That's taking it way too personal.  Only consistently lousy developers deserve to go broke and Factor 5 and Free Radical could have bounced back from a critical bomb.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Rebel Strike was awesome, but you didn't think so.  That's 2 duds in a row, so by your metric they deserved to go under.

UNDA DA SEA!

DOWN WHERE IT'S WETTA

DOWN WHERE IT'S BETTA

TAKE IT FROM MEEEEEE

[King of Twitch]

Did the stampeding masses at E3 06 mean nothing

[Plugabugz]

Explain Data Design Interactive then, Ian. HOW MANY DUDS IN A ROW.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Spectrum Holobyte, please come back!

[Spinnzilla]

well this sucks.

the only one who misses out is us.

i'm curious as to where IGN (or just Matt) got that dreamy "Kid Icuras Wii" theory from?  If factor five was honestly developing a Nintendo game, Nintendo would have attempted to save their asses.

[KDR_11k]

Ian, we're laughing because it's another bankrupcy in the age of HD. Not because the devs picked illogically back in the day but because people are still proclaiming that better graphics are the way forward and Nintendo's lower graphics were just used to prey on the ignorant masses. We don't cheer for the demise of a specific developer (though they were mostly a tech demo company, their gameplay was always the weak spot and the games were buggy), we cheer for the failure of the prediction that graphics are more important than improving the user interface and accessibility of gaming. We cheer for the implosion of the era of the cinematic epic with the hope of games becoming more focussed on interesting gameplay instead of crappy movies.

[NWR_pap64]

Ian, we're laughing because it's another bankrupcy in the age of HD. Not because the devs picked illogically back in the day but because people are still proclaiming that better graphics are the way forward and Nintendo's lower graphics were just used to prey on the ignorant masses. We don't cheer for the demise of a specific developer (though they were mostly a tech demo company, their gameplay was always the weak spot and the games were buggy), we cheer for the failure of the prediction that graphics are more important than improving the user interface and accessibility of gaming. We cheer for the implosion of the era of the cinematic epic with the hope of games becoming more focussed on interesting gameplay instead of crappy movies.

You know, I was thinking about this last night.

There are far too many cases of studios shutting down and firing employees. I figured the reason why is that they are spending too much money making epic games for HD consoles and seeing very little profit, even if the game is considered a success. Then there's marketing, release and manufacturing. Combine all of this and gaming can be pretty damn expensive to make.

Before Ian comes in and says "Yeah, well developers can lose money on Wii too" its a proven fact that developing for the 360 or PS3 is expensive. Their development kits cost far more than the typical Wii kit, not to mention that they have to modify the textures in order to fit HD sets, and for that to happen they need to buy HD engines, which I take is also expensive. Add development time, payment for all the employees working on the game and the other stuff I mentioned and I can see how companies seem to be closing left and right. Too little profit being made, even if a game manages to sell millions.

[Kairon]

We cheer for the implosion of the era of the cinematic epic with the hope of games becoming more focussed on interesting gameplay instead of crappy movies.

I agree. It's not that I don't like epic games. Sure, bring 'em on! But for every Secret of Mana or Final Fantasy VI in my past, there was a Mario Paint, a Pieces, a Lemmings, a Tetris.

Companies need to learn: in the end I don't really want multi-billion dollar graphics. You can't spend money and expect to buy me as a consumer, to roll over like you deserve me as a customer.

I just want fun. And I don't care if it comes in the shape of a sword, a gun, a dragon, a paintbrush, or a pompom.

[UltimatePartyBear]

This sucks.  Factor 5 was supposed to come back and show everyone what the Wii could really do.  They were like the prodigal son, lured away by false promises, and we were going to welcome them back with open arms.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

You'll have to settle for Sonic Unleashed, I'm afraid.

[Kairon]

This sucks.  Factor 5 was supposed to come back and show everyone what the Wii could really do.  They were like the prodigal son, lured away by false promises, and we were going to welcome them back with open arms.

It does suck.

I mean, I wasn't too keen on them after the mess that Rebel Strike was (best part about Rogue Squadron 3 was Rogue Squadron 2), but they're amazing technical workers, and that's always a key attraction to Nintendo's second party lineup. On the N64 they had Rare, on the GC they had Factor 5, but the Wii lacks significantly in this area.

[King of Twitch]

They were like the prodigal son, lured away by false promises, and we were going to welcome them back with open arms.

Instead, they are like the farmer who sows seeds in the brush, and his profits are choked up by the THORNS OF HD.

Or... are we the Good Samaritan who arrives too late to help the guy that gets mugged and beaten by HD, and then dies of his injuries?

Or is the Wii a mustard seed? "What is the kingdom of Wii like? What shall I compare it to? It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his living room. It grew and became a moneytree, and the third parties of the air perched in its branches."

[Kairon]

They're like Jonah. Except the great fish actually chewed this time.

[Plugabugz]

You'll have to settle for Sonic Unleashed, I'm afraid.

WHAT NEXT? KEANU REAVES FORSEEING DOOM AND DESTRUCTION?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"This is not YOUR planet.  I know Kung Fu."

[KDR_11k]

pap, no offense but that's really not what makes HD games cost. "HD" is the wrong term actually, they'd be just as expensive in SD. More power means more possible detail means more mandatory detail and detail costs money. Especially when that detail is so complex to make like a normalmap (which is standard for "HD" games). Not just the objects need more detail, the levels too. Whereas Quake and Descent got away with pretty much straight cubes nowadays everything has to be populated with tons of auxiliary objects that all have to be designed and then placed well. This also impacts game length, when it takes a month to make a piece of corridor that takes 10 minutes to play through you're obviously not getting a very long game. Often levels need custom objects to give unique sights rather than copypasta from other parts and that takes work too. Players don't even look at all these expensive details much but it has to be there because it's expected to be there.

And for all the visual variety most games fail to make different levels actually play different so it still feels repetitive even though millions were spent on avioding the look.

[Ian Sane]

Rebel Strike was awesome, but you didn't think so.

Rebel Strike was HALF awesome or maybe two thirds.

Ian, we're laughing because it's another bankrupcy in the age of HD. Not because the devs picked illogically back in the day but because people are still proclaiming that better graphics are the way forward and Nintendo's lower graphics were just used to prey on the ignorant masses.

Better graphics isn't all that better hardware can accomplish but then I argued that to death years ago.  I don't think Nintendo's method has any more substance at least from the perspective of making games better.  The only difference is their method is financially successful and Sony's isn't.

[KDR_11k]

But it seems that better graphics is what people expect from games on the "HD" systems and thus games must spend more and more money on that.

[vudu]

[Factor 5 was] like the prodigal son, lured away by false promises, and we were going to welcome them back with open arms.

Anyone else getting Episode III flashbacks?

You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them. You were to bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness.

/boo hoo

[GoldenPhoenix]

When was Factor 5 ever a "good" developer outside of visuals? They could really only do one thing, and even that formula grew stale fast and that was the Rogue Squadron series.

[Arbok]

When was Factor 5 ever a "good" developer outside of visuals? They could really only do one thing, and even that formula grew stale fast and that was the Rogue Squadron series.

Factor 5 was a one trick pony... but they did that trick really, really well.

As mediocre as the third Rogue Squadron was, at least the flying levels were still a blast. Regardless of their limited scope in terms of success... the second Rogue Squadron was easily one of my favorite Gamecube games and I'm really sad that they won't get to make another one for the Wii, as I feel one made from the ground up with two player co-op in it (rather than the way it was shoe-horned into the third) could have been awesome.

[UltimatePartyBear]

[Factor 5 was] like the prodigal son, lured away by false promises, and we were going to welcome them back with open arms.

Anyone else getting Episode III flashbacks?

You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them. You were to bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness.

/boo hoo

Don't cry, vudu.  I'm sure you're not the only one who has flashbacks to that movie.  It's called PTSD, and I urge you to call a counselor before you or your family suffer through any more attempts at quoting George Lucas dialog.  You don't have to face this alone.