Topic: BLAH BLAH BLAH: C-Stick Smashes in Smash Bros.: 'Cheap' or Not?

[TheBlackCat]

I think Grant has the key point.  It is okay if you don't want to use the c-stick.  It is okay for you to think the game would be better without it.  But it is not okay to criticize someone else for using the full range of options available to them in the game.  The game is designed a certain way, so anyone operating within the confines of how the game is designed is doing nothing wrong.  You may not like it, you may not want to play that way, but that is your problem not theirs.  They are doing nothing wrong by playing the game the way it was designed to be played.  You are fully justified in determining for yourself the way in which you wish to play the game.  But you are not justified in criticizing others for failing to conform to your own completely arbitrary rules for how the game should be played.  As long as they are playing within the rules set forth by the game designers they are doing nothing wrong. 

Now if they were exploiting glitches or hacking the game that would be a different matter.  If they had control options that were not available to you, characters that were not available to you, items that were not available to you, then there would be grounds for complaining.  But everything people who use the c-stick can do you can do as well but intentionally choose not to. 

To use your basketball example, imagine if each team has one 7-foot tall player with all the other players being 6 feet tall.  Now imagine one team decides to use their 7-foot tall player while the other team does not.  That is fine, the two teams are allowed to pick for themselves which players they want to use.  But now imagine the team that doesn't use their 7-foot tall player starts saying the team that does use their 7-foot tall player is being cheap by doing it, or worse yet telling them they are cheating (calling the 7-foot tall player the "cheat player" when the player is playing fully within the rules of the game).  That is not a legitimate criticism.  Both teams had the same options available to them.  One team decided to take advantage of one of those the options, the other team did not.  Each team has the right to pick which options to take advantage of.  But one team does not have the right to force that choice on the other team, and criticizing the other team for making a different choice is not a valid criticism, as long as the same options are available to both sides and the rules of the game are followed.  If both teams agree not to use the 7-foot tall players then that is a different matter, but one team cannot force the other team to not use a player the rules of the game say they can use (assuming the same basic types of players are available to both sides).

[PopeReal]

Wow I actually read all 3 pages.  I never used c-stick in Melee, just never messed around with it but I don't care if anyone uses it.  I have been trying it out in Brawl the past couple days but I don't think it gives me much of an advantage.

Anyway interesting debate, but I imagine the c-stick smash is here to stay forever.  I don't see why it would be taken out, unless there is no c-stick controller available on a future smash.

[UncleBob]

I would like to point out, when playing a crappy, lag filled, online match, the C-Stick is pretty handy, as you can slam it over and over waiting for it to input a lot easier than you can attempt real smash moves hoping they input.

[KnowsNothing]

I use buttons to jump

[Kairon]

I use buttons to jump

Cheater. &P

[Ceric]

Lets all agree that Smash is just a big game of cheating.  In fact if you are not my Mirror clone then your cheating...


Cheaters Unite.  For if we all cheat then none of us cheat...

[decoyman]

A little prudent editing might have let me read the whole thing (THREE pages, wow:P: ). Still, what I did read was interesting and fun. I'd disagree with formatting this differently, as was suggested... It'd lose its informal nature and some of its charm.

Anyways, I happen to believe C-Sticking has its place in the game. I do "real" smashes for most of my attacks, but every so often, I'll see an opening that's fitting, and flip the c-stick. I'm not even certain of the cases for a c-stick smash, as it's kind of second nature by now, but it's another tool in my arsenal to use should the opportunity arise. See, it's ok that it's easier to pull off because there's a penalty associated with c-sticking: they're not as powerful as "real" smashes!

In that sense, people who can incorporate both sorts of smashes are, to me, playing a more-finely tuned match, more cerebral game. They have more weapons at their disposal, and must decide on the fly which to unsheath and strike with. It's more complicated, and gives the player a better, more complete range of attacks.

Maybe you should give the C-stick smash a more personal evaluation before you judge against it, Mike. You might just find a place for it in your Smash arsenal.

[Nick DiMola]

I am going to defend Pale here, the C-Stick is fail. If you use it, by extension, you fail. C-Stick and Up Jumping both got shut off immediately when I started Brawl.

[UltimatePartyBear]

I've tried the C-stick, but I generally find that moving my thumb to use it isn't worth the trouble.  I feel the same way about button jumps, but to a lesser extent, and I do find them useful when I want to use an aerial down-A right after jumping.  It's slightly easier.  However, I made it a point to practice tilt-up-A attacks until they weren't a problem anymore, just like I originally had to learn to do everything else in the game (Link's down-B gave me a lot of trouble in the original Smash Bros. because I kept dropping through platforms, for example).  Frankly, it's no harder to avoid jumping than it is to avoid doing a smash attack.

So anyway, I adhere to the play to win philosophy.  If it's a designed part of the game, it's not cheap.  If it's an exploit available to all, it's still not cheap.  My first encounter with this idea was in Warcraft 2 and the idiotic Ogre Rule, which was that no attacking was allowed until everyone had ogres or knights.  Thankfully, I didn't play online enough to ever encounter anyone who played like that (though my preference for sea-based maps meant that most people had ogres before any real combat happened most of the time).

Even though I don't use the C-stick, myself, I have to side against Pale here.  Of course, I can't side with Windy, either, since he started the lame argument and helped keep it going for three pages, then thought it was actually worth reading. 

[NWR_insanolord]

Anyone who makes that big of a deal about C sticking is only one notch better than a tourney***. There, I said it.