Topic: SCEE denies stealing motion tech. Steals non-gamers.

[Deguello]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ymeegod
What about the Eyetoy, which won innovation awards or MS's Live feature?

Would you mind explaining this part a little more clearly?

[KnowsNothing]

Woah, how things change.  I guess it's okay now to accuse someone of stealing something in the future =o

[Ymeegod]

Sigh--people still not following.

Ok let's take this agruement back 20 years ago when the famicom was first introduced.  Yes it's the first console with D-pad but was it the first one to use buttons?  Nope.   Where they the first ones to use carts?  Nope.   Nintendo couldn't have gotten where it is today if it didn't use the competition technology.  

[Kairon]

Nothings wrong with borrowing. Something IS wrong with stealing and claiming it as your own, as Sony has down with analog controls, rumble feedback, and "3D graphics." <--- True.

It's like making fun of Al Gore in a way with that whole internet thing. <-- which..turns out to be sorta true upon further research

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[Requiem]

There's a difference between using technology and blatantly copying technology because your competitors use it.

Sony was content with their situation until Nintendo showed off what the Wii could really do. eNow they are nervous, and what do people do when they get nervous? Look at what the person who isn't nervous is doing, and go from there.

You see -- They weren't going to use the technology until someone else made it look like a good idea. That's the difference. That's a huge difference.

It's one thing to borrow ideas from other companies to further evovle your field (what Nintendo is doing), but it's another thing to borrow an idea simply because you feel you might lose out from not supporting (what Sony is doing).

[King of Twitch]

That brings up another question:

Would nintendo be blamed for copying if they had added a second Z button and clicks to the sticks for the cube controller like they should've done?  

[Deguello]

I think it would be better to visualize  it in terms of a school talent contest.

Nintendo goes up and performs a dazzling magic show filled with awe and euphoria and whatnot.  Nintendo's act featured quite a few new tricks and an interesting way of audience participation.  Nintendo had been working on and hyping up this magic show for a long time and boy did it pay off.  The crowd is ecstatic.

Sony comes on stage next and does a poor imitation of Nintendo's act that he just got finished performing.  Sony was slated to perform a metal cover of Climax Blues Band's "Couldn't Get it Right" but mysteriously has a change of heart right before his turn comes up.  All of a sudden he's doing magic tricks as well, and poorly.  He gets one or two off by chance, but he mostly fails at each one.  The crowd rightfully jeers at his lack of originality and scorn his decision to so flagrantly copy Nintendo, who had been working hard the last few months getting his act just right.  Sony claims to have been working on this act for months as well, but the crowd also dismisses this because it was performed so poorly.

Neither of the contestants invented magic shows.  However, Contestant Nintendo ghets high marks for pulling off a well-done shows featuring new tricks and a new method of magic.  Sony gets low marks for altering his original plan to include the very same magic tricks that Nintendo just did 15 minutes ago, without aleration, and does them so poorly, that people do not notice his backup band carrying out his original plan.

The timing is the thing.  It's fun to point out Nintendo had the whole idea of Camera-based games in the form of the Game Boy Camera before Sony did, but in the big scheme of things is doesn't matter very much.  Nintendo pun plates in a talent show 6 years ago, Sony spun plates at a talent show 1 year ago.  No biggie.

But when Sony has been heaping trash by calling Nintendo's show last year sparkling innovation (DS) while they did more of the same (PSP), and Nintendo left unfazed and continued in the same direction (controller innovation), it certainly does look bad that all of a sudden Innovation is on Sony's docket after a whole year of chiding it in the handheld sector.  The timing there was awful.

[Athrun Zala]

Deguello wins the internetz!

^^

[Ymeegod]

"It's fun to point out Nintendo had the whole idea of Camera-based games in the form of the Game Boy Camera before Sony did,"

Did you even own a GBC camera?  Don't recall it being used to play any games--it was just a quick video camera where you can edit pics.  Wasn't used as much else.

The eyetoy was the first to capture live motion video into movements for your character.  The Eyetoy also sold a couple million units which sparked the whole "get off the couch" crowd.

Clearly can't say Sony jumping the bandwagon since it's the first ones on.  Eyetoy 2 was going be a standard feature for the PS3 and that was announced prior to nintendo's controller TGS showing.  




 

 

[mantidor]

But its not just the hardware used, is the software. What changed gaming wasnt the analog stick, it was analog stick+Mario 64, and thats what was ripped off countless times by everyone else, it really wasnt a ripoff at the end, it just became the standard. The eyetoy is far from having become a standard.

[Requiem]

Wow.... You SUCK! (just kidding)

But seriously, you took ONE little flaw out of a beautifully written post and decided to scold it.

Look at the bigger picture next time. He completely destroys all your debatable points.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ymeegod
The eyetoy was the first to capture live motion video into movements for your character.

Technically incorrect... Eyetoy functionality, like analog control and rumble feedback existed on PCs before console systems.

This just goes to show that it does NOT matter who did something first, but instead who did something first right. That's Sony for CDs and camera-controls on home game consoles, MS for console online connectivity, Konami for beat-based music games, and Nintendo for analog, cross pads, force feedback, motion sensitivity and hopefully pointer functionality. (and countless other small innovations like shoulder buttons, button configurations, lock-on systems, game saves in consoles, and the first true solid approach for third-person 3D gameplay)

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[Artimus]

I think DDR started the get off the couch movement.

I also think Sony may have stuff like the EyeToy but they take no risks to make it worthwhile.

[Ceric]

EyeToy is strickly a Toy's Toy.  That's it.

I agree.  The abrupt change from what was originally unveiled and the bewilderment of everyone this close to launch over the new controller addition from Sony is what makes this different then borrowing and more in the stealing category.  If Sony has a very Live! online model and not much more then I say at that point since it wasn't very abrupt and somewhat expected and good for the target market then yeah there just hitting the bar that MS has set.  Making them average.

On the whole online thing.  Live! is going to be  the bar that all are measured by.   MS did their job well.  Sony knows this.  Nintendo doesn't.  It's pretty obvious.  If it's not Japan then Nintendo has a hard time beleiving it.    Also noting that.  If MS went into Handhelds I think they ax the PSP but wouldn't phase Nintendo.  Less market overlap.  Always learn from others mistakes.

I agree the DDR is the original get off the couch game.

[Deguello]

Quote
Did you even own a GBC camera? Don't recall it being used to play any games--it was just a quick video camera where you can edit pics. Wasn't used as much else.

Did YOU own a Gameboy Camera?  It did have several games in it that incorporated the pictures that the player took, such as making you the boss of a space flying game or putting your face on the classic Game And Watch Game "Ball".  It was quite an advanced concept to have in 1998 when it was released, and especially for the ORIGINAL gameboy,a dn there were well documented plans to have the player's picture's incorporated into N64 games through connectivity in games like PErfect Dark.  That fell through, but the plans were there nonetheless.  I'm not saying people should bow down to Nintendo for this particular piece, but it was something they pioneered.

Another weird thing is watching Sony even talk about connectivity in any form and the press not immediately throw rocks at them and write 89236492 editorials abotu hwo they have lost touch with gamers and whatnot.  I mean Nintendo makes connectivity their big thing for several E3's and the press shat on them by basically saying "where's online? this sucks."  Sony introduces the most shallow and useless function of connectivity ever (A $900 "rear-view mirror" for an F1 game) and everybody clams up.  I dunno why that raised my ire.

[Ceric]

It costs just as much as a Real F1 rear-view mirror I'm sure of it.  I think at the moment the editors are trying to carefully build the catapult for the nice size targets that Sony are setting up for them.  You have to adjust those things you know.  Between Nintendo and Sony come November someones getting seiged.  Next year I'm almost positive we are going to get a ton of "What were they Thinking?" articles for both companies.  Sony just knows how to grease the right fingers to hold out the real zingers.

[TrueNerd]

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
I think DDR started the get off the couch movement.

...Which is the evolution of the Power Pad. And the Power Pad is probably the evolution of something else.

Stealing technology is one thing. This is no big deal as it happens all the time and will continue to happen forever. What Sony did was steal the IDEA and the CONCEPT of the Wiimote. This is a far greater offense. Harrison made some comment a few days after E3 that they had been trying to make a motion sensored controller, but they were waiting for it the tech to be there and for said tech to be affordable. But they had the idea for it 10 years ago. How is it that Sony, THE name in consumer electronics, was beaten to the punch by a video game only company, which is much smaller, with their own motion sensored controller? Wouldn't Sony have the resources to make that sh*t happen if they really wanted it to years ago? Plus, it's not even more capable device then the Wiimote, it's half-assed version.  And if the PS3 controller had been in development for so long, why was there only one game at E3 that utilized the damn thing? The whole thing is so infuriating, especially in the same press conference they say sh*t like "We're not about cutting corners to rush a product to the market and we're certainly not about sparkling innovations. Next generation doesn't start until we say it does."

No, what Sony is about is making their fans bend over and raping them with expensive features that do nothing to enhance the gaming experience, which is fine with them as long as they win the hi-def movie format war. THAT'S what Sony is about. It's ridiculous.

I think I already said this...
In this thread...

Oh well, post count+1!

[Karl Castaneda #2]

Nintendo stole the idea to use electricity in the Game and Watch from Edison!

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: ViewtifulGamer
Nintendo stole the idea to use electricity in the Game and Watch from Edison!

Lol, to be serious though I think this all boils down to how things are implemented. There is nothing wrong with taking existing technology and using it in new ways, but there is something wrong when you blatantly copy something innovative (pertaining to gameplay, not necessarily technology) with no shame whatsoever. Nintendo has an amazing track record when it comes to utilizing existing technology, creating a better gaming experience. Besides the 2nd analog stick, Sony doesn't even come close, heck their controller is still the same as it was back in the PS1 days, and it is obvious the "6 degrees of motion" is a blatant (yet poorly implemented) copy of Wii's controller. Nintendo has usually avoided blatant copying of their competitor, even the GC's controller (arguably the least innovative controller Nintendo has put out) tried to do something new with its button scheme.

What I want people do is look back at Sony, what have they really done that helped push gaming  forward (don't give multimedia examples like a built in DVD player, because that does not benefit gaming) that was their own idea besides the basic graphic upgrade. Not a whole heck of alot besides the second analog stick, which is still not utilized much in games besides FPS. At least Microsoft tries to refine their controller, implemented a better way of storage and developed a brilliant, even innovative, way of playing online through their Xbox Live (which Sony is once again copying).