Topic: Revmote: hands on (old article) and...REGGIE LIKES MMORPGs!?!

[IceCold]

Memos.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: wandering Whenever he shows interest in something, that's usually code for 'that's in development, but I can't talk about or confirm that right now.' At least I think that's what that's code for.

That's what ran up the red flag for me.

Reggie wouldn't mention it unless he knew that MMOs would indeed be explored at some point in the Rev's lifetime.

[Kairon]

Actually, I don't really put stock in what Reggie says. He's a PR guy, he's from marketting, he's just there to say whatever gives Nintendo good PR and makes us feel good. &P It's people like Iwata-san who seem to have the naive belief in being honest... for the most part.

And I did actually know of Toon town. It's just that Pokemon has gamers who are older and more hardcore as well, and they'd be outraged to be handicapped in an MMORPG to the extent that ToonTown handicaps you. I mean, you see all the hubbub they make over friend's codes and no voice chat, imagine that amplified through Pokemon's popularity, through the expectation of text chat, and through the genre of "RPG."

Although I will say that I didn't know you could unlock freechat in ToonTown. I thought the entire game was done through prearranged emotes and phrases! So thanks on enlightening me on that account.

BUT, there are still MANY other issues.

For instance, Pokemon is a PvP game. Can you imagine the sadistic griefers, ages 7 and up, who will ruin the experience for anyone they bully into a duel through vicious name calling? And Pokemon emphasized levels, it's not exactly a lowbie-friendly game. AND Pokemon would need an all new monetary system, the only way you earn money now is to beat the **** out of other hapless trainers who willingly fork over thousands of Pokedollars at the drop of a hat. AND Pokemon has never been a super-balanced game, they'd need to make huge advances on that area as well.

Up until now, Pokemon has been a one-player experience, shielding players from the essential inequality and brutality of the Pokemon world.

AND they'd need to have seamless interfaces, seamless experiences, and servers...

I'm sorry, but there are so many daunting aspects of a Pokemon MMORPG that I doubt it should be attempted at this point: it would prove to be a headache and a sales success but an online disaster.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Strell]

Nintendo shouldn't even be worrying about child safety measures.  That should be the parents job to begin with.  They ought to be teaching their kids what to say/what not to say and what sort of conversations can be dangerous.  

Unfortunately no one wants to take the responsibility, and subsequently charge game makers with endangering their children.

In all reality we should have full voice chat in all MMO games for the Rev, but some idiot will go into an uproar when little Jimmy starts telling a pedo he loves ice cream and would absolutely meet him for some.

I don't know if parents are lazy, don't udnerstand the technology, don't care for their children's well being, etc etc.  I don't know the source of the problem.  Doesn't change the fact that it is almost solely their fault.  When I was a kid, I was told to never talk to strangers.  When I went online in middle school, I hardly did chat rooms, and I was sure to never divulge any kind of personal information.  I went by my online name only and didn't respond to anything else, never mentioned where I live, etc.  And (if) when I have kids, I can damn sure bet they will know the rules and will not even begin to broach that sort of information.

It's a real shame gamers have to suffer for the actions of idiot parents with no clue.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
Actually, I don't really put stock in what Reggie says. He's a PR guy, he's from marketting, he's just there to say whatever gives Nintendo good PR and makes us feel good.

Just like how he suggested that adding Rev support to TP would be "truly magical" and then a few months later they announce Rev support for TP?

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And I did actually know of Toon town. It's just that Pokemon has gamers who are older and more hardcore as well, and they'd be outraged to be handicapped in an MMORPG to the extent that ToonTown handicaps you. I mean, you see all the hubbub they make over friend's codes and no voice chat, imagine that amplified through Pokemon's popularity, through the expectation of text chat, and through the genre of "RPG."

Then the parental control option would have to be in there to unlock full-blown chat, but I still wouldn't see it as an issue even if that option didn't exist. Pokemon isn't a social RPG, it's a battle RPG, and as such, battles are what truly make the game enjoyable, especially with other players.

The franchise could still work online with or without free chat.

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BUT, there are still MANY other issues.

For instance, Pokemon is a PvP game. Can you imagine the sadistic griefers, ages 7 and up, who will ruin the experience for anyone they bully into a duel through vicious name calling? And Pokemon emphasized levels, it's not exactly a lowbie-friendly game. AND Pokemon would need an all new monetary system, the only way you earn money now is to beat the **** out of other hapless trainers who willingly fork over thousands of Pokedollars at the drop of a hat. AND Pokemon has never been a super-balanced game, they'd need to make huge advances on that area as well.

So are you discounting Nintendo's ability to adapt a popular franchise to work in a MMO setting? If Blizzard can do it with Warcraft, I fail to see why Nintendo cannot do it with Pokemon.

I cannot imagine sadistic griefers because all of PvP in Pokemon is consensual. If communication is not permitted unless they've opened it up or used a friend code, then no name calling will ever happen. There could even be an option saying "_____ wants to speak to you. Will you talk to ____?" if name calling would truly be that bad.

A monetary system would be more than easy enough to do, as would balance to ensure players only fight other players around their same levels.

Seriously, do you think such simple alteration and game design is beyond HAL Labs or whichever dev would design the game?

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Up until now, Pokemon has been a one-player experience, shielding players from the essential inequality and brutality of the Pokemon world.

I absolutely have to hand it to you: I never thought I'd see the words "brutality" and "Pokemon" in the same sentence.

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AND they'd need to have seamless interfaces, seamless experiences, and servers...

I'm sorry, but there are so many daunting aspects of a Pokemon MMORPG that I doubt it should be attempted at this point: it would prove to be a headache and a sales success but an online disaster.

"Daunting" would be designing a console and controller which elevate gaming with a completely new and unique user interface and place it in the hands of people who would otherwise never DREAM of owning a console, yet Nintendo is tackling that task full-on.

THAT is daunting. Redesigning an existing franchise into a MMORPG is not.

Have you ever even PLAYED a MMORPG? The game concept itself is rather simple. It's not even something which I would consider to be a hurdle in Nintendo's development of a Pokemon MMO.

And as for popularity, a while back, I found an online web-based Pokemon game which was shoddy and horribly designed. It took me two hours of searching, google and all, before I stumbled across it by luck.

Keep in mind the game was terrible, using a click interface which didn't often work, and yet this craptacular little game had 180,000+ players.

If a silly PoS web-based Pokemon game which barely even works and is difficult to find can garner over 180,000 players, I'm quite confident that the real-deal running on a Nintendo platform on Wifi would be immensely popular.

[Kairon]

Lol, yeah. It takes a pretty special Pokemon fan to admit to use the term "Brutal" to describe the game.

Smash, you're right. All those problems could be solved and text chat can be virtually crippled or not included at all. I'm just of the opinion that not only does Nintendo not want to set up persistant servers for an "MMO" type game, but that they don't have their resources allocated in such a direction. Not only do they have limited experience in RPGs, but the Pokemon team, GameFreaks and Creatures, is very small and not that technically ambitious.

Oh... In fact, you've given the best reason why a Pokemon MMORPG shouldn't be made: it isn't a social RPG at all, it's a battle one. Just give us player-matching and be done with it. Anything else is a waste of money and an unnecessary risk.

~Sallow
Philanthropist of The Black Cross
Lvl 60 Undead Warlock
Shadowsong (PvE)  

[jasonditz]

how many RPGs were social RPGs before they went MM?

You can solve the money issue the way a lot of games do: tradeskills. Make it possible to become a Pokeball manufacturer, a berry farmer, etc. maybe high level skilled Pokeball makers can make Pokeballs that have a better chance of catching wild pokemon.

I just dream of one day walking around a 3D first-person perspective world and seeing a Pidgey or a Zubat go flying past. The Pokemon world has a huge amount of characters and backstory to it at this point, there should be an all-immersive experience like that.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Kairon Smash, you're right. All those problems could be solved and text chat can be virtually crippled or not included at all. I'm just of the opinion that not only does Nintendo not want to set up persistant servers for an "MMO" type game, but that they don't have their resources allocated in such a direction. Not only do they have limited experience in RPGs, but the Pokemon team, GameFreaks and Creatures, is very small and not that technically ambitious.

I think they could hire the extra talent to build the MMORPG world (it's always what happens with designers).

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Oh... In fact, you've given the best reason why a Pokemon MMORPG shouldn't be made: it isn't a social RPG at all, it's a battle one. Just give us player-matching and be done with it. Anything else is a waste of money and an unnecessary risk.

That's fair, but I'm betting that a full immersive world to explore, teeming with Pokemon and trainers eager to rise in the ranks, would be a smash hit.

Truth be told, though, that's a question only market research could likely answer: would it be better to turn the Pokemon world into a full-scale MMORPG or would it be better to leave it as a matchmaking system?

I like the idea of a consistent world because the Pokemon games always reflected a world as such, with more than enough islands and the like that you could keep the world large and growing. I think it would be more popular than a simple matchmaking system, but we'll just have to wait and see what Nintendo decides to do.

I also did my time in WoW., though this is inaccurate because I retired with 3 level 60s.

[jasonditz]

Another nice benefit to the huge persistant world would be that you could keep the rare Pokemon truly rare. Uber rare popping once every couple of months legendary pokemon would add a great incentive to keep playing. I know there'd be people spending weeks on end wandering around looking to add one.

[Kairon]

I can see now how one could expect Pokemon to evolve into an MMORPG, but I personally believe that the risks and negatives far outweigh the positives for Nintendo. So in this sense, I prefer to be realistic (which you may read as pessimistic if you so desire) on the possibility.

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Originally posted by: jasonditzI just dream of one day walking around a 3D first-person perspective world and seeing a Pidgey or a Zubat go flying past. The Pokemon world has a huge amount of characters and backstory to it at this point, there should be an all-immersive experience like that.

Such an experience exists in my most favoritest Pokemon game of all time: Pokemon Snap!

~Dete
Bug Trainer Extraordinaire!

[Smash_Brother]

I think Blizzard making money hand over fist with WoW should be evidence enough that the MMORPG genre is certainly profitable. It would be even easier for Nintendo, since Bliz basically wrote the book on turning players into "content" via PvP, which would be magnified even more so in Pokemon where people run around and fight each other.

And I'm telling you, a predefined list of words and phrases you can string together, especially in the event of players of different languages, would suffice for most play, including a list of favorite phrases you could select from quickly. Ideally, friend codes would allow voice chat, making communication with friends even easier.

I just think that Pokemon is just too big of a franchise and too big of a world for anything but a full scale MMORPG to do it justice.

I mean, for the first time ever, someone WILL be crowned Grand Champion Pokemaster of the entire world.

I just don't see how Nintendo could pass it up.  

[Ian Sane]

"I mean, for the first time ever, someone WILL be crowned Grand Champion Pokemaster of the entire world."

How do you prevent people from cheating?  If you just use a Gameshark to get all the Pokemon and thus get an unfair advantage then what?  I love the idea of an actual champion but it would be hard to keep things legit.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane How do you prevent people from cheating?  If you just use a Gameshark to get all the Pokemon and thus get an unfair advantage then what?  I love the idea of an actual champion but it would be hard to keep things legit.

A gameshark only edits save game data. In the case of MMORPGs, none of the character data is stored client side (on the Rev), it's all server side.

It has to be in order to maintain consistency. Otherwise, people would cheat in WoW like they did in Diablo.