Topic: Iwata: "Paradigm Shift"

[couchmonkey]

I think we need to think of anything Iwata says as being geared towards the Japanese market.  When he says they're not going to compete with the other systems, he's talking about game design, not power.  Iwata's comments are aimed at the Japanese market where videogames are losing popularity; Reggie will set the record straight for western consumers soon enough.

I admit, I am still a little worried that the system won't play traditional games.  From my perspective, if Revolution does what it's supposed to successfully, I will definitely have to have it, but I'll also probably have to have one of the others, because I'm not tired of playing traditional videogames.  I think third party support will definitely favour the other companies in that scenario too.

What excited me here is that Iwata claims they're actually going to give us information on the system at E3!  I really didn't expect Nintendo to say too much about it until later this year or even next year.  I'm also encouraged that it sounds like Nintendo is taking Microsoft's early launch more seriously, up until now Nintendo has always insisted that it would wait for the PS3 launch.

[KDR_11k]

Seriously guys, MS and Sony have information networks. By the time some random developer leaks vague information to a random forumer MS and Sony already have the complete chip layout of the Rev in their hands by loosening a few jaws with a little money. I doubt they couldn't convince a dev to give them every single detail they'd like.

I'd guess that the point of the Rev is to simplify the controls by removing abstraction layers. That's what the DS did, instead of pressing A to cut with a knife you make a slashing motion with the stylus. Much more intuitive and precise.

As for next gen graphics, hell look at Doom 3, unified realtime rendering is a HUGE step ahead and if you ever tried to work with that engine you'll understand the beauty of it all. Imagine about two steps above Doom 3, that's what Moore's law dictates what these consoles will be capable of.
At that level it comes down to artistic skill. Bethesda is known for their bad art, hell, Perimeter looks much better than Elder Scrolls 4. More polygons don't absolve you from having skill, in fact more polies require much more skill. I'm completely overwhelmed by that kind of work because I have little skill. Look at what Bungie does regularly, they are prime examples of bad art (Oni used the same polygon counts as Unreal Tournament 2004). Those hand painted bumpmaps in Halo 2 look like crap compared to Doom 3's normalmaps, yet Doom 3 has vastly lower polygon counts (id recommends around 2000, I think Halo 2 was around 3.5k?). Look at Final Fantasy X! 1.5k per character yet it looks beautiful! It's all about skill. You will be able to reach photorealism with the next gen consoles provided you have the skills. Without the skills anything will look like crap.

[Ian Sane]

Looking at the article I just spotted a quote that really explains why I have no interest in what the DS is currently offering.

"Iwata said the DS and PSP aren't directly competing, because Nintendo is aiming for nongamers and retired gamers with its handheld, while Sony is targeting the traditional gaming audience."

I'm not a nongamer or retired gamer.  Thus the DS isn't even targeted at me.  In fact the DS isn't targeted at ANY of us since none of us here are nongamers or retired gamers.  Now if that's the audience the Revolution targets they can count me out.

Who does Nintendo think their fanbase is?  We're gamers.  By not targeting us they are turning away the existing fanbase.  That's a pretty insane risk to take.

[Bill Aurion]

Thus the DS isn't even targeted at me. In fact the DS isn't targeted at ANY of us since none of us here are nongamers or retired gamers.

Um, no...You are missing his point...He wants to cater to the Nintendo fan as well as pull in a new audience...I think with titles like Mario, Zelda, and Advance Wars it's quite obvious that what you are thinking is ridiculously off-base...

[Hostile Creation]

Their plan seems to be working.  I like the DS and my mother and sister (both nongamers, though my mother used to play a bit, so she's a retired gamer in a sense) both like it a ton, too.

[Stimutacs Addict]

yea, the DS catches on with the casual fans pretty quickly, in my experiences

[PJ gamer10]

Yeah the DS is a good system that offers a, "simple" way to play games. My girlfriend is addicted to the Mario mini games. They are fun, simple and show great uses for both the touch screen and duel screen abilities. I think however that people believe the DS is the next Gameboy. All I see is 10 year olds buying it or parents buying it for their 10 year old.  

[Avinash_Tyagi]

First off this whole "DS has no games, blah, blah, blah" is a monstrously stupid complaint, first off that only applies to the US not japan where games like wario ware, pokemon dash and others are already out and selling like hotcakes, secondly the only reason the US doesn't have many games is because there is no competition!

People forget that when the PS2 launched it had a horrible lineup, worse than the US lineup of the DS, but it still sold and by the time the GC and Xbox showed up better games were out, and now the PS2 is the clear winner in the console race.

Get a clue...nintendo doesn't need to release any games at the moment because it has no one to compete against, right now its easy money, their not going to waste their big guns now and have no stockpiles when the PSP arrives, their going to hord their games until the PSP arrives and then start releasing, especially with regards to next winter when the 2005 holiday season starts, they'll want to bury sony at that point, expect a flurry of games and possibly a price drop next oct.-dec.

[norebonomis]

i think that alot of us are in denial, we may not call ourselves 'fan-boy' but we are. lets face it. ds is gonna be the next virtual boy. nintendo wants (AND I WANT NINTENDO) to be innovative. but there isn't alot of room for it in the popular market.

[Spak-Spang]

Here is something to remember about graphics.

We aren't at the pinnacle of graphical perfection yet with games.  We won't be close to that probably until another 2 full generations after this coming generation.  However, I would argue we DON'T want to be there.

With each generation of 3D consoles it becomes more and more costly to artistically design games.  You want to know why larger companies are buying all the small development firms.  

1)The smaller firms can't compete in the marketplace and still make a profit.  The time and resources it takes to make spectacular graphics for just this generation are incredible, yet next generation the price will skyrocket even more.  

2)The larger firms are even having a problem keeping up with the challenge and they are ever needing to enlarge their development teams and artistic teams just to create their normal games.

If all we do is push for games to be graphically superior then eventually costs of gaming will go down and the only games will get receive are those which will sell millions of copies.  In other words in future consoles we will actually be getting less variety not more.  You can actually see it this generation with games.  The variety of original games is shockingly low.  

Nintendo may not have the exact answer by trying to create a new means to interface with your games, and focusing on the interaction more than the games, but at least its a bold step in the right direction.  

To me the DS is a perfect example of the risk Nintendo is will to take to effect the future of gaming.  Yes right now the system doesn't have many games, but don't judge a system on its launch titles, and wait and see what it will be in the future.  The DS is bold in design, but it still brought us enough advancement in technology to play 3D games and 2D as well brought us a new way of playing games.

From what developers have said Nintendo is creating a system that is graphically superior than the Gamecube, and should compete nicely with the PS3 and Xenon.  However the emphasis on the system was never the power, but the interface.  

Lets see what Nintendo creates before we get upset.  

After all I would rather see an awesome new interface than really nice graphics that don't change gameplay for me at all.

[KDR_11k]

Interestingly I often see startups barge in with games that are seen as milestones graphically (Perimeter and Far Cry come to mind).

Norebonomis: To me, equalling the DS with the Virtual Boy is comparable to claiming the XBox has only Halo in terms of "insta-troll" rating. It's selling well so claiming that it doesn't go well with the popular market is like saying there are no american troops in Bagdad. The DS applies technology that has properly matured to the gaming medium, the VB attempted to merge an immature technology with gaming. The touch screen is opening up new possibilities, as opposed to the Virtual Boy's "3d" display.

[Spak-Spang]

KDR_11k

Most of the time those new developers creating amazing games and graphics are creating those games for PC.  That is a completely different animal than console development.  

1)  Its easier and less expensive to get started on a PC game.  A group of programmers and artists could easily work on a new PC game while having other jobs and become successful.  

2)  When you see these startup developers they usually have all their eggs in one basket.  Meaning if that game they spent years on developing isn't successful then the company may completely go under.  Its very high risk.

You usually do not see new developers jumping to console games first because its even higher risk and more costly do develop for one of the console systems.  Besides you may not even be let into the door with aid from development kits and such.  

So I still believe in my analysis that the more graphically intense the games, and the more advanced that smaller companies will be eaten alive.  At the same rate games will become shorter, and multiplayer will began to be used for longevity of the game even if its a game that should be designed with multiplayer in mind.

[KDR_11k]

But after a successful start on the PC they could start making console games, no? Small devs start up all the time and it's never going to stop. Claiming that rising costs or huge companies could stop them is wrong. If a dev has the money for a workplace, hardware, software and staff they have enough money for an SDK.

[couchmonkey]

I think there is potential for homebrew console developers to stay alive.  The developers of Alien Hominid are the best example currently.  The trick is to say, "screw graphics, we're going to focus on fun games."  If you do that, and keep things as simple as possible in the graphics realm, I think you have a chance to make it.  Maybe you'll always be stuck as a small developer catering to a niche crowd, but that's better than not being a developer at all.

[norebonomis]

you know, the DS can output 30fps 3D when alternating frames from screen to screen. i remember reading that the demo DS units output their video through the charger port. if all ds's can do this. i want to make a stero-scopic game similar to virtual boy. with a head-mounted display, each eye being connected to a different DS screen. it's probably super difficult but not impossible. i think this is a natural movement from a system with dual screen output..

haha it really would turn into the next virtual boy.