Topic: More on 2003 Sales

[mouse_clicker]

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So in my eyes, you're just a kid who is overly content with your system. You obviously have little to no understanding of the industry via the general consumer.

Kyosho, this is why I hate talking to you. Have you ever considered that maybe Nintendo just isn't fulfilling YOUR needs, while they are fulfilling MINE? You're acting like your opinion is law, that if you think Nintendo has been getting worse, it's not open for debate. I agree, yes, Nintendo should try to appeal to everyone, including you, but don't complain to ME because they're not. You're perfectly capable of selling your Gamecube and getting a PS2 or XBox- in fact, if you DID, Nintendo might get the idea a little quicker.  

[Bill Aurion]

I disagree with that(Kyosho's post)...I believe most people consider sales and hype as the determination of the success of a console, and that is just not the case...Though Nintendo may not hold the top of the totem pole anymore, their quality hasn't diminished in the least bit, imo...And taken from someone who has been through every Nintendo generation 100% satisfied, no less...  

[Kyosho]

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Have you ever considered that maybe Nintendo just isn't fulfilling YOUR needs, while they are fulfilling MINE?

You know if your memory wasnt of a gnat, you would have remembered that I've reiterated that fact several times in our last confrontation.  So in response to the above quoted question, an exclamated 'yes.'

Am I really complaining to you? I know complaining to a 15 year old kid isn't going to solve anything.  If anything, I am pointing out the certain flaws in your opinion.  You, at the same time want Nintendo to succeed, yet also at the same time want anyone who complains to discontinue supporting Nintendo despite them being longterm fans and despite them supporting Nintendo since its inception.  Here's something new to you... even the best of fans still whine. It just so happens that we're not satisfied, but we still support Ninty by at least waiting for the games we want to come out.

That's an obvious hypocritical stance on the whole situation and if anything is hypocritical to everything you have written around your editorial.  I forgot to mention this, but I have a PS2 already.  

Bill, in regards to the quality issue, I agree somewhat.  When I mean a Nintendo generation gets worse, I am talking about just the overall vibe of the system and games, not necessarily the quality of the games.  This is definitely due to the lack of advertising as well as many major media sources belittling the company.  I usually accept things with a grain of salt, but again this usually depicts the stance the company has in the software industry as well as amongst the public.

[thecubedcanuck]

"Have you ever considered that maybe Nintendo just isn't fulfilling YOUR needs, while they are fulfilling MINE? "

the problem is that you have become the MINORITY with this type of statement.
I use be a total diehard Nintendo fan, I have had every Nin system to date. Hell I didnt even buy a PS1, and I can bet that there are many many people out there just like me in this regard. I would also bet, that it is safe to say, that like me, a lot of these people have moved away from Nintendo for other sytems or other forums of media in general.
It is really great to say that Nin still meets your needs, but from a business standpoint, and I am talking cube only, not GBA, that Nin is not meeting the needs of nearly the number of people it once did, and IMO that number is getting smaller all the time. Yes, 2.5 million cubes sold for 99 bucks, but time will tell if software sales, anywhere near match those numbers, I am guessing they wont.
I simply dont find Nin games to be as good anymore, I dont have as much fun playing them as I do many other games.
Its as simple as that, I dont want your sympathy, because I myself dont even care.

[oohhboy]

While it maybe true that Nintendo's own games might be in decline. You guys can argue about that till Armageddon, But that is not the point. If the system youbrought has the games you want and you are having fun with it, your a winner!

Maybe this all this feeling of Nintendos games are not matching up to expectations anymore are due to the fact that games really has reached the point where your not getting as much out of it as you go out of it last generation. Just maybe, this side effect has leveled the playing field as that other developers can now match up to Nintendo making the games they are making now not seem so special.

Just maybe it isn't Nintendo's fault and it is just a natural evolution of things. Think about it.

[mouse_clicker]

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You, at the same time want Nintendo to succeed, yet also at the same time want anyone who complains to discontinue supporting Nintendo despite them being longterm fans and despite them supporting Nintendo since its inception.

Insults aside, I believe you've completely misunderstood me. What I'm saying is if you don't like Nintendo anymore, why continue to support them? As long as you continue buying Nintendo products, Nintendo will still think you like their products. Bitching about it on a fansite forum is just going to irritate people, as I think it's already been shown. If you REALLY believe that Nintendo has declined, do something about it and stop shelling out your hard earned cash for games you don't like- the fact that you've supported Nintendo so long should be completely irrelevent. You are perfectly capable of fixing your problem and yet you don't. THAT'S why I don't want to hear you complaining. It's not that I don't want anyone to complain about Nintendo at all, it just pisses me off when that's ALL they do- you never follow up on your complaints. There's no reason to support a console you don't like. You have a PS2, start buying some games for it instead of your Gamecube- I guarantee you'll be more satisfied. I'm trying to help you, Kyosho.

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the problem is that you have become the MINORITY with this type of statement.

Again, you guys are acting like your opinion is universal. Except you, cubed, tried to use some sketchy sales numbers to back yourself up. There's a dozen other factors to consider when looking at sales (namely that there's a 3rd major console this generation whereas before there were at most 2). I don't really think you or I can speak for everyone, so let's not try, hm? I'll say it again- if you really don't like your Gamecube, get rid of it. I'm not saying this because I'm some kind of fanboy, I'm saying this because there is honestly no reason to keep a console you neither like nor play. And yet you still support it! It's like donating to a cause you don't believe in! Your money would be better spent on another system, seeing as at least there your gaming needs would be satisfied since Nintendo hasn't done that for you. Seriously, I didn't think you guys would take such huge offense to a simple idea to save some money.

[thecubedcanuck]

Mouse

I already own all 3 systems, and money to me is not an issue, so selling my cube is simply a waste of time.
I keep my cube for multi platform games, because I like the fast load times and the wavebird, and the hope that maybe I will like the odd exclusive such as ED and RE.

"Again, you guys are acting like your opinion is universal. Except you, cubed, tried to use some sketchy sales numbers to back yourself up. "

Pardon me? The Cube is in last place, this has nothing to do with sketchy sales numbers, it has to do with fact. The price drop is the only reason the cube has even pulled close to MS (who is a console newcomer I might add) , so saying our opinion isnt universal is being very blind to the fact, that indeed, Nintendo is losing customers.

As for offense, I take none, I just find this very funny.

[nolimit19]

if anything my opinion is totally bias towards nintendo. its not that i dont like them anymore because i do...but you have to admit that they have lost some of their edge with games like mario sunshine. sunshine was a good game i think....and i enjoyed it. the whole water idea was a good idea, but it just wasnt enough. they made it the theme of the game....if it had just been one aspect of the game, it would have been ok....but the whole game was about cleaning and water. this is just an example of how nintendo has lost their edge. the same goes for wind waker, which again i think is a very good game, but they focus on these weird themes(wind)...there was nothing really new in any of these games(besides the things relating to wind and water). also...i think part of the disapointment with nintendo is the fact that their discs are so small. a lot of people like it when a movie helps the story a long in a game....the cube is limited because of the small space on the disc. games like re have to have 2 discs to compensate for these types of bone headed moves....and they probably scare away some 3rd parties from putting THAT extra effort into the game. all these little things add up to the 3rd place nintendo is looking at right now. i believe that nintnedo is good enough at making games to be #1....yet they are number 3 because of constant horrible descions. im not complaining to anyone here. this is the point of a message board. how can you complain about people making comments on a message board. if we all talked about how great the cube is, that would make for a pretty sh*tty place to post. we should talk about everything that is bad and good about the console. i have no problem with you not agreeing, but at least say somehting that makes a little bit of sense.  

[PaLaDiN]

cubedcanuck, say what?

I was following your argument until you said the Cube was in last place.

Where are you getting your info from, and are you under the influence of any substances while you view it?  

[KDR_11k]

Well, people say N's current games are worse than their previous ones, eh? Well then, take out those old consoles and play your "old treasures". After all those years your perspective might have changed. I spent hours upon hours on Super Mario Land and its sequel, but when I played them again half a year ago I beat them in half an hour each. Try it, those old games seem really different now that you've tasted the blood.
"Old school" gamers call other people ignorant for not liking Space Invaders or calling Pong boring. Well, those games might have held an appeal back then, but nowadays we know the taste of blood, we expect more from our games. By the standards we applied back in 1990, Super Mario Sunshine would be a universally praised superhit, nowadays everybody just shouts "this is worse than Mario 64!". Have the games changed or did we?
People also expect jumps in quality that cannot be repeated. If Sony's games were around before the invention of 3d, everybody would expect a jump in gameplay as large as the one from 2d to 3d in every release. That's plain impossible. Quotes like "It's good, but it doesn't have the jump in quality that its predecessor had" litter reviews of Soul Calibur II. Was that because Soul Calibur I was soo good or because Soul Edge just sucked? Apparently you may not put all you can do into a single game unless you want people to complain about the successor. Be happy it was in the previous game already and you didn't have to wait until now to get it!

[Kyosho]

Mouse,

Bitching about it is only going to irritate those who are led by blind faith.  It's so blatantly obvious.  There are some who LIKE Nintendo yet willingly accept its flaws such as nolimit.  And there are some who are dumbstruck to where they feel their fanboyism governes all.  This is a Gamecube forum after all right? We have the privilege to discuss or in your views, complain, about the Gamecube.  You don't want to hear it, then go look at the wall.

I still like Nintendo to the point where I am still thinking of buying the next system.  But there are some like cubedcanuck who have lost faith in Nintendo and won't be supporting the system next generation.  I am very selective in my choice of games.  I have enough money in my income to buy games that it's not an issue.  I've actually stopped spending cash on games for Gamecube.  In fact I returned quite a few of them so your act of helpin just shows how little insight you have of me.  

I've actually followed up on my complaints several times already.  I supported my stance with my job experience which has an obvious larger impact than you basing your views on forums and websites amongst the more vocal minority.  Not everyone knows there are forums.  Again, go get a job at a retail store.  

Suggesting for me to save money is such an ignorant statement that only you would make.  I am not in a financial crisis where every single penny needs to be thought of.  I got the Gamecube for free after trading in my N64 and all my games.  I've only spent a *total* of about 150$ on the Gamecube which were ONLY games, which I am also constantly recycling into preorders waiting for the PS3 to come out.  

The cube is not necessarily last place worldwide anymore.  It has gain much ground from the higher holiday sales.  The Cube is about neck to neck with the Xbox in the US, but has higher ground to the Xbox in Japan.  That doesn't mean it's a good thing.  People keep saying to not compare it to the PS2 and compare it with the Xbox.  The xbox is a 1st generation console.  Nintendo is already on its 4th generation.  Why compare to 1st generation console that is doing mediocre? That just brings you down.  They need to start comparing to the PS2.  They need to understand what kind of buyers are out there.  

[mouse_clicker]

Kyosho, I'm through with you- you obviously don't understand what I'm trying to say, so there's no point in talking with you after this. I really shouldn't even be talking to nolimit, since he's as thickheaded as you are. This is what I'm TRYING, to say, and I'm going to put this in bold since hopefully it'll catch your eye:

You have a Gamecube. You quite obviously do not like your Gamecube and think Nintendo has declined. I am NOT debating this point- it is purely a matter of opinion, and as we all know we can NOT act like subjective points are right or wrong. But since you DON'T like Nintendo anymore, you should, in all honesty, get rid of your Gamecube- there is no use in keeping a product you neither like nor use. Using the money you would get from selling your Gamecube, I suggest you buy either a PS2 or XBox, basically something you WILL like. I do not mean this derisively, and mean this helpfully- if you're not satisfied with your Gamecube, by all means drop it and get something that WILL satisfy you. But when you make the conscious decision NOT to sell your Gamecube, you have absolutely no right to complain in my eyes because you know very well that there is nothing at all stopping you from solving your own problem- instead, you choose to whine about it. I have no respect and no tolerance for people that complain about things they are perfectly capable of fixing. In other words you have only yourself to blame for your continued unhappiness with your Gamecube because you refuse to get rid of it. Cubed, you say you can afford to own all 3 consoles and it would be more of a hassle to get rid of your Gamecube, yet why can't you afford some self tolerance and decide not to bitch and moan about how you don't like your Gamecube because you won't get rid of it? I couldn't care less if you all hated Nintendo, which I know is not true- there is positively no reason to keep a product that does not fulfill its sole obligation to you. I liken this to the willing act of self-torturing- you may not have brought this dissatisfaction on yourself, but you're certainly, and knowingly, keeping it there. Complaining will get you nowhere- if you really want Nintendo to heed your call, stop giving them your money. Nintendo doesn't care what you think about their products, just as long as you keep buying them, which you are. Honestly, how can you not see the benefit in exchanging your makeshift dust collector for something you will actually PLAY and ENJOY? As long as you don't, whining will only win you the contempt of your peers. Either get rid of your Gamecube or stop your incessant complaining.


Sorry for those whose eyes now hurt after reading that, but since neither Cubed, nolimit, nor Kyosho bothered to read my posts well enough to understand them, I felt my newest one needed an attentioned getter. They seem to think I'm arguing Nintendo's supposed decline, which we do have conflicting and equally substantiated opinons on, but I'm getting at something much different. In any case, I'm through trying to talk to them.    

[manunited4eva22]

Guys, I want you to do me a favor, all of you seem bent on the fact that you want basically Nintendo to grow up and make their games less "kiddy" and all that jazz, basically more mature titles right?

I want you to list every mature title on SNES that you fell in love with and that has brought you back title after title to get a new hold on it.  I can only name about 3 titles that were mature that I even remember, most of them were just ports of a PC game or were a fighter that has since basically died.

Lets look at the facts here, you have changed, not nintendo.  You feel that because you were here first, nintendo should will to your feelings because somehow you represent most of nintendo's market.  This is true to some extent, but hardcore gamers aren't the ones that are building Nintendo's userbase back to respectable numbers.  It's the casual gamers who are driving the sales, the guys who haven't forgotten what it was like to be a kid and to enjoy a game like mario kart, which for all it's faults offers something that most people can identify with; a game where nearly anyone can pick it up, learn the controls quickly, yet still provide enough depth that everyone can enjoy it.  

What I am seeing from Kyosho mostly, is that he feels that he is too old for a game like Mario or Zelda, and that he wants to see these two series move in a direction that is either more mature or that is just overall more ambient, nothing to really give the game much of a personality.  Well the second of these options just isn't going to happen, as this is the opposite of where hardware is driving, with the ability to create blisteringly detailed levels, people expect that, and just won't except a game that is a lot less ambiant.  

The first option is where there is the split and we get all these fights, a lot of people want the series to grow with them, others want it to remain mostly unchanged.  Which is better is up to an opinion, you can't definitively say either way.  What is clear however is that for the rest of the gamecube they will keep the games less mature if that's how you want to describe it, and if you want it to change you are looking in the wrong place.

If this is something that you can never get over with, you really should just invest in a PS2 and Xbox and look for a title to come a long that you feel is up to par with your expecations. Otherwise stick around, and enjoy what Nintendo makes, just don't waste your time and energy screaming about how gamecube suxors and all that.  

[thecubedcanuck]

" Guys, I want you to do me a favor, all of you seem bent on the fact that you want basically Nintendo to grow up and make their games less "kiddy" and all that jazz, basically more mature titles right?"

not true at all, I just havent found any of the current Nin releases to be fun, or as much fun as comparable 3rd party titles, ie 1080 vs ssx3

Mouse, I do understand what you are saying and I am not bitching. I am merely stating that at this point I am not as happy with my Nin purchace as I have been with previous Nin purchases. I see no need to sell it as money isnt an issue, and I would never be able to recoup my investment anyhow, but I also dont see why I cant voice my opinion on why I am not happy.

[Bill Aurion]

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Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
not true at all, I just havent found any of the current Nin releases to be fun, or as much fun as comparable 3rd party titles, ie 1080 vs ssx3.

"Fun" is relative...I've had a ball with Ninty's games, particularly Wind Waker, Pikmin, SMS, and SSB:M...

And I would like to add that I thought 1080 was much better than SSX3...

[nolimit19]

mouse you got a lot of growing up to do...and i truely mean that in the nicest way possible. well Kyosho may have been bating you to say somehting...im not sure because i didnt read his posts in depth, but you seem to think that you have all the answers to everything. just because you dont think nintendo is perfect doesnt mean that you dont like them. in fact it seems that you didnt even read anything Kyosho said. he said money wasnt an issue and you still suggested that he sell his cube to buy something else. as for manunited4eva22, i PERSONALLY do not think nintendo should get more mature....well maybe with the introduction of new franchises, but not with the current ones they have. i personally just want nintendo to make their games not look so cute. i dont mind one game being cel shaded...cell shaded doesnt mean cute...but it seems like every game made by nintendo (sms, mp4/5, mario kart) looks SUPER cute. it just makes me sick, although i still do enjoy them. my point isnt that nintendo games are no good, but just that nintendo is under achieving immensely right now. i do think they are going through growing pains and that they will improve and continue to improve in the next generation, but to say we shouldnt point out obvious holes in their current stratagy is thick headed. if you dont find the problem, how can you fix it? some will say there is no problem...well all i have to say to that is SNES, N64, GAMECUBE.....sure nintendo fixed a lot of the problems with the N64 and made the cube pretty good, but now its the games that are lacking....and i think sales reflect that. there should be no crying or personal attacks...thats just what i think....and i think its obvious that a lot of others feel the same way. if it wasnt for the cubes lower price...it would have never gotten back into second place.  once xbox lowers its price, they will have the upper hand again...unless things change between now and then.  

[Kyosho]

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. But when you make the conscious decision NOT to sell your Gamecube, you have absolutely no right to complain in my eyes because you know very well that there is nothing at all stopping you from solving your own problem- instead, you choose to whine about it. I have no respect and no tolerance for people that complain about things they are perfectly capable of fixing

I am sorry but I am definitely talking with a kid here.  I thought I made a point that this is a forum to voice my opinions whether it be for or against Nintendo.  I also thought I made a point as to why money was not an issue to me.  But apparently, Mouse has been struck with the dunce hammer after reiterating several things that have been said already.

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Complaining will get you nowhere- if you really want Nintendo to heed your call, stop giving them your money

Let's face the facts here from the supplier position.  You sell a Gamecube to EB, does that hurt Nintendo in any way? Nintendo has already received the 150$ it sold from that Gamecube when you last bought it.  EB in turn takes the system and cleans it up and sells it back.  It then makes profit off the Gamecube.  The new buyer of the used Gamecube now buys games.  So in turn, instead of Nintendo profiting from console purchase, it still profits from game purchases.  So either way, they still make profit.  So if I were to follow your flawed logic, I would still be helping Nintendo indirectly.  

And for the last time, this is a forum.  The purpose of a forum, might I remind you MouseClicker, is to discuss.  You dont want to hear the whines, then like I said go look at the wall.  You don't have to read these if you refuse to understand other people's opinions.  Someone mentioned earlier... what would a forum be if it was full of people blindly praising Nintendo...

manunited,

I never said I was too old for a game like Zelda.  In fact, Zelda is my favorite Gamecube game as of right now.  

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Lets look at the facts here, you have changed, not nintendo. You feel that because you were here first, nintendo should will to your feelings because somehow you represent most of nintendo's market. This is true to some extent, but hardcore gamers aren't the ones that are building Nintendo's userbase back to respectable numbers. It's the casual gamers who are driving the sales, the guys who haven't forgotten what it was like to be a kid and to enjoy a game like mario kart, which for all it's faults offers something that most people can identify with; a game where nearly anyone can pick it up, learn the controls quickly, yet still provide enough depth that everyone can enjoy it

That is true that I have changed.  However, I do not think I represent most of Nintendo's market.  If anything I say, I am trying to say it from the utmost neutral viewpoint.  As for the sales, it's due to the price drop.  For games such as Mario kart, I doubt many buyers will return a game like that.  Even though they are disappointed, such as myself, I still will keep it.  So those sales will just keep on increasing based on past popularity.

As for wanting games to change, I think you've misread many things already.  I really dont care much about the kiddy appearance of 1st/2nd party games.  It's more or less the 3rd party part that I want more of in both quantity and quality.  There's only 3 games that I'm looking forward to right now: FFCC, Harvest Moon, and Tales of Symphonia.  I might also pick up Madden 2005 if it's not gimped compared to the other consoles.  

[Bloodworth]

If you guys don't stop polluting thread after thread arguing over whether Nintendo has gone downhill or not, I'll ban all three of you (mouseclicker, Kyosho, thecubedcanuck).  You've all been making the same arguments for quite some time now, and don't seem to know when to just leave well enough alone.  

[mouse_clicker]

Just to be a stickler for details, I wasn't debating Nintendo's "decline" and cubedcanuck wasn't involved near as much as it seems.


In any case, so I don't get banned, I'll be interested to see how long Nintendo's sales boon lasts. It's entirely possible that it was really only the Christmas season that carried the interest for the Gamecube, but I hope not.

[thecubedcanuck]

Dan

Sorry if I got off topic.

Mouse

First, thanks for sticking up for me
That is the point I was trying to make, how long will price drop work for, and how will software sales end up as a result?

Also, please correct me if I am wrong. Is MS not ahead of NIN in north american sales?