Author Topic: continued from Gamecube Disc. Microsoft & Nintendo  (Read 5515 times)

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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: continued from Gamecube Disc. Microsoft & Nintendo
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2004, 10:13:54 PM »
In China the MMO uptake is gigantic, however most games don't break even and the best ones have about as many customers as Everquest. Doesn't sound good for the online industry... Did you know that Apple's iTunes barely breaks even?

Offline joeamis

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RE:continued from Gamecube Disc. Microsoft & Nintendo
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2004, 12:26:32 AM »
Quote:The Omen
And you know what? They are on a steady decline. If you havent heard, there is big time trouble with Sammy corp. taking over majority stock in Sega. Besides this new unrest, Sega went from being the #1 developer less than 10 years ago, to completely dropping consoles because they cant run their business. Sega havent been financially healthy in years, and its only getting worse. So i repeat-frankly, they arent around anymore.
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if Sega is not around anymore why do they release atleast 1 game every month?  Why did Panzer Dragoon and ESPN NFL 04 get game of the year awards?  Why are they one of the only publishers who consistently release games on every console?  How are they not around anymore???  Why did Nintendo entrust Sega to co-develop one of their most popular franchises???!

chong can u think of when AI will outperform humans, that will be crazy!  But that's way far off (supercomputers still can't outperform humans in chess, incase anyone wants to say the opposite)
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Offline Crash

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RE:continued from Gamecube Disc. Microsoft & Nintendo
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2004, 02:35:05 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: joeamis
Quote:

if Sega is not around anymore why do they release atleast 1 game every month?  Why did Panzer Dragoon and ESPN NFL 04 get game of the year awards?  Why are they one of the only publishers who consistently release games on every console?  How are they not around anymore???  Why did Nintendo entrust Sega to co-develop one of their most popular franchises???!

)


Sega has been flirting with being broke since the demise of the Dreamcast (well the Saturn actually); which is a big shame - but true. Nobody has said they are not around anymore, the comment is that Sega is not the powerhouse they used to be, not even close.

Winners come and go; legends are forever.

Offline The Omen

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RE:continued from Gamecube Disc. Microsoft & Nintendo
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2004, 05:02:12 AM »
Quote

if Sega is not around anymore why do they release atleast 1 game every month? Why did Panzer Dragoon and ESPN NFL 04 get game of the year awards? Why are they one of the only publishers who consistently release games on every console? How are they not around anymore??? Why did Nintendo entrust Sega to co-develop one of their most popular franchises???!

chong can u think of when AI will outperform humans, that will be crazy! But that's way far off (supercomputers still can't outperform humans in chess, incase anyone wants to say the opposite)


Not around anymore meaning in terms of industry pull, they have deteriorated to a 3rd party developer which have a few good games, but thats it.  I did not mean Sega have dissappeared off the planet like a ghost...
"If a man comes to the door of poetry untouched by the madness of the muses, believing that technique alone will make him a great poet, he and his sane compositions never reach perfection, but are utterly eclipsed by the inspired madman." Socrates

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: continued from Gamecube Disc. Microsoft & Nintendo
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2004, 05:17:11 AM »
You said it's easier to let MS build the network than to do it yourself. It's easier, but costier. When you build up the network, you pay for the network, if you hire somebody to build the network you'd end up paying both your network and the contractor. MS isn't the welfare, they don't build a costy network and pay advertising for another company, they demand their share (in MS' logic that'd be 75%) of the profits. And I have my doubts that an online network, no matter how sophisticated, would cost more than 50% of Nintendo's profits to maintain.
Also, MS isn't dumb, they know that once their partner's business dies they no longer have to share profits. Ask Sendo.

Offline joeamis

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RE:continued from Gamecube Disc. Microsoft & Nintendo
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2004, 08:26:45 AM »
ok your last sentence basically changed my mind, good job, I now believe MS
will not be interested in merging because they want to eliminate Nintendo entirely
rather than using them to achieve the same amount of success or even more... (not being sarcastic)

As far as Sega okay, you say in terms of industry pull, now I say they still pull enough than
to not be considered 'not around', their sports games this year are considered as good as electronic arts if not better for basketball and football, and maybe other sports titles too (i dunno outside those), and they have the undisputed Fighting game of the year in VF4 EV (i say undisputed because I haven't seen one game of the year awards goto SC2 instead, overall)

They keep churning out the games, maybe some don't match the quality of their great dreamcast titles, like the ongoing Sonic titles per se, but they're still releasing some of the best games of this generation
i.e. panzer dragoon orta, VF4 EV, ESPN Basketball/Football, F-Zero GX (so far)

I remember in the Saturn days Sega did not come out with any new games for over a year, so I'd say they died then, had a rebirth, died again, and this is their 2nd rebirth, not that they just suddenly died now.
 
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Offline Guitar Smasher

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RE:continued from Gamecube Disc. Microsoft & Nintendo
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2004, 10:46:37 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: joeamis


chong can u think of when AI will outperform humans, that will be crazy!  But that's way far off (supercomputers still can't outperform humans in chess, incase anyone wants to say the opposite)


Well, since you had to bring it up, I guess you should know better.   I guess you've never heard of Deep Blue, a supercomputer, which back in 1997, defeated World Chess Champion Gary Kasparov.

Here is proof

And even if it hadn't been capable of beating Kasparov, it still would've taken you to school.  

Offline The Omen

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RE:continued from Gamecube Disc. Microsoft & Nintendo
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2004, 10:56:32 AM »
Ummm, yeah, Guitar Smasher, that quote does not belong to me and i'd like it stricken from the record.
"If a man comes to the door of poetry untouched by the madness of the muses, believing that technique alone will make him a great poet, he and his sane compositions never reach perfection, but are utterly eclipsed by the inspired madman." Socrates

Offline Guitar Smasher

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RE: continued from Gamecube Disc. Microsoft & Nintendo
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2004, 11:04:01 AM »
There, I 'fixed' it.  It  never stated you said it, you just happened to be in the post.  Nonetheless, there you go.

Offline The Omen

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RE:continued from Gamecube Disc. Microsoft & Nintendo
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2004, 12:01:56 PM »
I was just kidding, but thanks anyway.
"If a man comes to the door of poetry untouched by the madness of the muses, believing that technique alone will make him a great poet, he and his sane compositions never reach perfection, but are utterly eclipsed by the inspired madman." Socrates

Offline joeamis

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RE:continued from Gamecube Disc. Microsoft & Nintendo
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2004, 03:59:40 PM »
yes it happened once, and it was a rematch in which they programmed deep blue specifically for that player, so its really not a true victory in my opinion.
its like your friend watching how you play a game every single time you play it, and then using strategy against you based on how you played.

and that is chess, which is a stationary TBS game, so take it with a grain of salt

what i meant exactly is when AI is more fun than playing against a person (for nearly every game)  
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Offline manunited4eva22

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RE: continued from Gamecube Disc. Microsoft & Nintendo
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2004, 06:47:55 PM »
On the chess arguement, fritz 3D was a quad xeon galatin MP @ 2.8Ghz, with 4GB memory.  That's hardly a supercomputer, it would cost about 12 grand to builld and maintain for 3 years. At this point, if Blue Gene, when it is completed of course, where faced against Gary Kasporov, he would lose, hands down. So what if the computers know what he has done in the past, Kasporov at this point makes up a new move to screw with the computer, and it is more than a decent strategy. Deep Blue is still 6 years old, remember that, and much has been learned on both sides.  Mark my words though, there will come a day when computers consistently beat men, and it's not that far away.

I really don't like playing against AI though.  AI relies upon 2 tactics, holding the strong attack point, i.e. holding a room in a FPS or a field, or by relying on a specific fault and power only, like in a game like Diablo where most enemies have an immunity to something and a strength in the same field.

When you play a game online, it is ALWAYS much harder to defeat everything.  Have you ever tried to play a FPS online compared to even the most attuned AI?  The difference is that AI relies on an algorythm to know where you are, there is nothing random about it.  9/10 times I can do the same thing to a AI character and he will respond the same way.  Humans will be random quite often.  Humans make mistakes, and they are far more random, this is less luck, more skill.

For instance in a FPS, playing single player, you can basically pick off an entire enemy team, and they would barely take notice, even on the hardest difficulties, in an online game, you probablly wouldn't make it past 1 before you were being shot at.

They are two very different worlds, and until there is some kind of algorythm to make AI keep up.