Topic: a lesson in writting utter lies!

[Djunknown]

Responding to Jack Lantern's critique, its good to keep other in people in check. I wrote my rant around 4 a.m, ready to sleep so some ideas may have been shortly executed. So I thank you for that. At least somebody read it!! I thought it was gonna be this big blob to some people who would just skip over it to the shorter ones.

By the time I got to the Online/Rare Arguments I was getting sleepy, and since I'm gonna make the assumption that PGC members can fill in the gaps because they're in the know, I can save my fingers. Lame excuse for sure, but that's my defense.

To go in some slight detail, the writer implies that Rare was this BIG studio they gave up when it was simply dead weight circa 2002. The Rare that made Goldeneye is not the same Rare that made later games. People looking for that "Goldeneye experience" cite TimeSplitters 2 as the next best thing. Retro Studios and Silicon Knights have stepped up to the plate in terms of quality (Sales, well...I guess people like Splinter Cell better. But there's room for improvement.)

The Online argument I stated was that if you read the recent interviews, Iwata-san and Miyamoto-san simply don't like the current format: Continually paying to play your games you've spent 50 dollars out of the box.  Nintendo is trying to perfect a formula that will make customers and publishers happy. That may take some time.

My Colaborations (Am I spelling that right?) rant was going for a more intellecutual one, not the hard earned, making dollars and cents one. Obiviously Something else attracts these 3rd parties aside from cold hard cash. Hideo Kojima could've told Nintendo to go fly a kite when they went to him about Metal Gear. Sega could have snubbed their noses at their old rival when asking them to develop F-Zero. Namco could've just said no to Starfox. Granted, Nintendo is slow on the uptake at times but not on Quality and Innovation. (Who knows, these projects may make a profit too..)

Generally speaking, I put in some arguments that went on another angle, not nessecarily opposing them. The Nintendo/Sony story on PS1 I lifted from Gamespy.com and IGN.com (Lest they are completely unreliable sources though I doubt it.) and simply go on to say that the research they did with Nintendo (And the abrupt betrayal afterwards) went on to the birth of the PS1. Sony wasn't going in totally blind, they had some experience (behind the scenes at least.)

The writer mentioned the Mini-DVD as an Achilles Heel which is why I mentioned that it's actually to their favor. Granted 1.5 Gigs seem to be insufficient, It hasn't stopped Capcom from making jaw dropping visuals in the RE Evil series, Retro from making the vast world of Metriod Prime, and making a huge over world in Legend of Zelda:The Wind Waker. Those slick visuals in Star Fox Adventures weren't too bad either. Without getting too off topic the upcoming Ninja Gaiden on XBoX was originally concieved on a Naomi Arcade board.(EDIT: Interview is found at Gamespot.com) Here's a snippet of what Team Ninja director Tomonobu Itagaki said:

GS: Was it always scheduled to be an Xbox game?

TI: Are you serious? (smile) We began development of Ninja Gaiden in 1999. At that time, we were using the Naomi arcade board in order to develop fundamental algorithms. Please don't misunderstand me; this does not mean that we were developing Ninja Gaiden for Naomi. Naomi was an extremely able "computer" and was suited to the development of algorithms that are not dependent on the specific platform. Major examples of these algorithms are important elements in action games such as the camera engine and motion engine.

To software engineers like us, both the Naomi and the Xbox are simply two examples of a computer system. Of course, this applies to the PS2 as well. Hardware engineers often tout the novelty and uniqueness of their computer architecture; we are not interested in this, and frankly, we don't care. Why? Because software engineers with a decent amount of expertise doing "ordinary work" can eliminate the differences between machines quite easily.
(It goes on to say because of XboX's raw power was the reason it was selected.)

Case in Point? Max Payne on PC? Max Payne on GCN? Possible, you just need the right (and bright) people working on it. Though as far as getting the liscence, paying the piper, yada yada, is another story.

And I'll admit I'm not unbiased, but I'm not some die-hard fanboy neither. I also have too much on my hands
That was what I was going for. Its good to have people on your toes, otherwise heads will be filled with hot air instead of knowledge.  

[mouse_clicker]

Jck: Miyamoto's working on several times more games than what you just listed for Boktai is somehow still finding time for Twin Snakes. Do you honestly think Kojima is busier than Miyamoto is? And what does lack of Cube experience have anything to do with it? If no one ever developed for a console they had no experience with, we'd never have any new games. There's always a first time on the Gamecube.

Look, if you can give me some proof that Kojima isn't close at all to Twin Snakes, that's great, but until then you haven't got an ounce of credibility.

[Jack Lantern]

I don't keep track of hardware sales, but I can tell that GBA sales HAVE slowed.  To a crawl is another story, but the GBA (and every iteration that will come after) isn't going to even come CLOSE to the 80 million-plus units sold of the original GameBoy unless something is done.  If you read the ditorial closely enough, you'll see that the author is speculating as to what is the cause, but he never claimed that his theories were the right ones.  Personally, I have a hard time not agreeing.  The last game that kept my attention on my SP was Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow.  And coming from Nintendo, the last ORIGINAL game from them was Metroid Fusion.

The overwhelming majority of Nintendo's GBA release are ports from the SNES.  For those who never played those games, then great; the GBA is the place to play them.  But I did play them already, and now, Nintendo wants me to re-buy the same games; games that are being marketed as new.  What's all this mean?  It means that Nintendo is basically taking ten-year-old games they had on hand, and repackaging it.

Sony's PSP will have the same problems if they take the same outlook.  The PSP is actually more powerful than PS1, but can port PS1 games to it quickly and easily.  If any publisher is out for easy money, there will be tons of PS1 ports on the way.  

Actually, Hideo Kojima's Boktai is a great example of ORIGINAL content.  A game that actually takes advantage of the GBA.

[Shift Key]

Honestly, if it takes Silicon Knights to get a MGS game to the Cube, then I give it two thumbs up.
I don't think MGS3 is that far along. Why can't Kojima be working on multiple projects, as supervisor. Miyamoto does. You look through the credits of many of the games, he's in there somewhere.

Rare is Rare. Sure, they made some classics. But the fact that they've a part of Microsoft Game Studios for a while, and only have a rehash of Conker makes me think Nintendo did the smart thing.
And what about Kameo? That was quite close to being released on the Cube before this all happened, and that's gone completely from the radar. Dont' give me this 'port' garbage, Rogue Leader was done in nine months from scratch, so there.
And you can keep Perfect Dark Zero. If some fanboy waves that game in my face whenever it comes out, if it even does, I will punch him in the face.
I cried. I remembered. I moved on.

And Djunknown hit the nail on the head with software developers.

Nothing is impossible. Two years ago, who'd have thought Metroid Prime would be first person?  

EDIT: Jack Lantern, I haven't heard of GMR, but I wouldn't trust EGM as my toilet paper let alone a source of gaming news.

[Jack Lantern]

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Jck: Miyamoto's working on several times more games than what you just listed for Boktai is somehow still finding time for Twin Snakes. Do you honestly think Kojima is busier than Miyamoto is? And what does lack of Cube experience have anything to do with it? If no one ever developed for a console they had no experience with, we'd never have any new games. There's always a first time on the Gamecube.

Look, if you can give me some proof that Kojima isn't close at all to Twin Snakes, that's great, but until then you haven't got an ounce of credibility.

You're right; Miyamoto IS working on tons of games.  There is also something called, spreading yourself too thin.  Work on too many titles at once, and you will lose focus.  Hey, Pikmin ruled, but it's nowhere even CLOSE to Mario 64 in terms of creativity.  And Miyamoto was supervising several projects when he was making Pikmin.  Think of how much better the game would have turned out had it gotten Miyamoto's full attention...?

As far as a lack of Cube experience goes, what does that have to do with what?  If Kojima and his team were such big Cube fans, they would have started developing on it long ago.  In no way am I saying that Kojima doesn't like Nintendo, or doesn't care about them.  What I am saying is that The Twin Snakes is, in no way, a Hideo Kojima project.  If you want proof, just buy the MGS3 issue of GMR, in which he does a full interview on Twin Snakes, MGS 3, and Boktai.  In that interview, he specifically states that he will not be particpating in the development of Twin Snakes because he is to busy with MGS 3.  Unlike Miyamoto, who barely even contributes in some games because he is supervising so many (did you know that Miyamoto had very little to do with Mario Sunshine?  Also, the director behind The Wind Waker was the creative mind behind the project, not Miyamoto.

For Kojima, he treats his projects differently.  He gave most of his life to MGS 2, and is now doing mostly the same for MGS 3.  MGS 3 is actually nearly done.  The team is shooting for a November 2003 release (contary to the E3 trailer claiming 2004).  Count the time it takes to edit, mass produce, and package the game (about 2-2 1/2 months), and Kojima and his team should actually begin crunch mode right about now (especially if they plan to hit that November 2003 release date).

But the proof you seek is in that issue of GMR, and since I don't have a scanner, I can't scan the interview for you.  But in that interview he says that though he is "officially" taking a role of supervisor, he is not going to contribute to Twin Snakes.  And supervising means that he will basically oversee the project as he gets time, and makes sure no one does anything to screw up the original concept.

 

[Jack Lantern]

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Originally posted by: Shifty

EDIT: Jack Lantern, I haven't heard of GMR, but I wouldn't trust EGM as my toilet paper let alone a source of gaming news.

Well, GMR is from the same publisher as EGM, but the mag is in association with EBgames.  But, if you don't like EGM, you won't like GMR.

I don't trust any of EGM's opinions, but as far as interviews and such goes, it's illegal to change someone's actual quotes in print, so if Kojima said what he said to GMR, I have no reason NOT to trust it.

[PIAC]

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and the sales of their GBA SP have slowed to a crawl (I think this has a lot to do with Nintendo's over-zealous Super NES game porting instead of offering original content).

he says NOTHING about speculating that they will, he flat out states that the SP is selling like acid filled eyeglasses, and the SNES ports arn't really that numerous, you just arn't looking hard enough.

[Hostile Creation]

I don't feel like getting into this rather stupid argument, but I'd just like to point out that what Kojima said in EGM could have easily been misunderstood.  Or maybe he could have changed his mind.  It's not like he's a computer program or something.  Well, regardless of what EGM said, I am sure that Kojima is working on Twin Snakes for at least some portion of his time.

[mouse_clicker]

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You're right; Miyamoto IS working on tons of games. There is also something called, spreading yourself too thin. Work on too many titles at once, and you will lose focus. Hey, Pikmin ruled, but it's nowhere even CLOSE to Mario 64 in terms of creativity. And Miyamoto was supervising several projects when he was making Pikmin. Think of how much better the game would have turned out had it gotten Miyamoto's full attention...?

This has nothing to do with Kojima not working on Twin Snakes because he'd be "spread too thin"- that would only be 3 games.

And EVERY game is nowhere near as creative as SM64 was- it was the first full 3D game ever, for crying out loud. That's like saying the movie you just saw isn't as good as Citizen Kane.

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As far as a lack of Cube experience goes, what does that have to do with what? If Kojima and his team were such big Cube fans, they would have started developing on it long ago. In no way am I saying that Kojima doesn't like Nintendo, or doesn't care about them. What I am saying is that The Twin Snakes is, in no way, a Hideo Kojima project. If you want proof, just buy the MGS3 issue of GMR, in which he does a full interview on Twin Snakes, MGS 3, and Boktai. In that interview, he specifically states that he will not be particpating in the development of Twin Snakes because he is to busy with MGS 3. Unlike Miyamoto, who barely even contributes in some games because he is supervising so many (did you know that Miyamoto had very little to do with Mario Sunshine? Also, the director behind The Wind Waker was the creative mind behind the project, not Miyamoto.

I only have one thing to say to this- MGS:TT was begun well over a year ago. Dyack was pitched the idea the day after Eternal Darkness was released in America (June 26th) and Miyamoto and Kojima had been discussing it for a while before then. Just because it won't come out until this year doesn't mean it wasn't begun until recently.

And of COURSE Twin Snakes isn't a Hideo Kojima project- is that what we're debating? Silicon Knights is making it, so it's a Silicon Knights project. That doesn't mean Kojima doesn't have a major hand in it's development. Miyamoto, according to Denis, had a major hand in the development of Eternal Darkness. Miyamoto also had a major hand in the development of both Majora's Mask and Wind Waker. But none of those are HIS creations alone, and that's not what I'm saying about Kojima. Saying Kojima doesn't have anything to do with Twin Snakes is ludicrouse- saying it isn't his project is correct.

And about that interview, go to a friend's house and scan it, or find it online. If he really isn't contributing at all (which I hardly believe), surely he's said so several times.


Here's a quote from Konami's official press release:

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"I am tremendously excited to introduce a unique Metal Gear Solid experience to a new audience of gamers as well as collaborate with my mentor in game design, Mr. Miyamoto, on Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes for Nintendo GameCube," said Hideo Kojima, vice president, Konami Computer Entertainment Japan.

"Mr. Kojima and I have spoken about this project for some time, and I'm excited our ideas have matched so perfectly," added Shigeru Miyamoto, senior managing director of Entertainment Analysis and Development Division, Nintendo. "It's this shared passion for game creation that has allowed us to collaborate to bring a special Metal Gear project exclusively for Nintendo GameCube."

Why would Kojima be "collaborating" if he wasn't actually doing anything? They wouldn't even need to mention him in the press release other than noting the fact he created Metal Gear if he had such a small role in the game's development.