Topic: RetroActive #6 Game Discussion: Zelda II - The Adventure of Link

[Mop it up]

I haven't started it yet. I guess this will give me more time to make excuses play it.

[buttle]

This is your first post, Buttle. Welcome to the forums!

I'm hoping that I can play catchup on this title with you all once my first paycheck for my new job comes in. I only played it a little bit back in the day.

yeah, i'd been meaning to go back and beat this game for a while.  and this retroactive pushed me over the edge, so i figured i'd join in and be part of the discussion.

 

[llaffer]

Just played through the fourth dungeon, and died in the fifth.  I seem to remember more of the game than I thought I would.  Still enjoying myself.  3 continues used, in the middle of the fifth dungeon, and my skills are 7-6-7.

[buttle]

5 temples in. 
this is an odd odd game. 
i thin the biggest thrill is that it's a zelda game but it's so different from the others.  you've got no one holding your hand and telling you anything which is really refreshing.  and the 2d controls, fighting, and exploring is great.

on it's still just strange.  i just beat a temple where i couldn't get to one of the keys.  but i was able to turn into a fairy and go through the lock.  what's with the invisible walls in the water.  some of these bad guys have very questionable hit points.  in the temples you can sometimes make it to the boss, before getting the special item.  and the whole map lay out.  it's all just strange.  the graphics when link is running down.

i'd say more but i have to run off to work. 

[buttle]

so, i had a hell of a time finding and playing through the 6th temple.  there's basically a hidden city, you need to find the hidden temple.  and i found it confusing that i could get to the final temple, i just couldn't go inside. 

but thanks to a walkthrough, i got to the temple.  i got the cross, but i couldn't figure out how to progress any farther.  so i went back to the walkthrough and it mentioned something about using a fairy while falling down the pit.  so i did this, but i must have done it wrong, because i didn't turn into a fairy until i got to the bottom.  and i had walls on both sides. 

and i hadn't actually saved in a while, since with the VC, i can just go to the wii menu and come back exactly where i came from.  and it never really occurred to me that my progress wasn't saving. 

so, after finding no way out of the room, i reset the game.  and the last time i saved was a long long while back.  so with that, i think i'm done.  this will remain the only zelda game i haven't beat.  but i think i'm okay with that.  i do think that this is an awful awful game.  there's a little magic here and there.  but you've got to go through some major sh*t to get to it.

i would say that i would absolutely love it, if another 2d zelda came out.  not a metroid rip off.  but the zelda formula, with traditional temples, overworld, and townsfolk.  just all in 2d.  and the smash bros. controls would be nearly perfect.  this is just a dream though.

[Mop it up]

After listening to the Episode 148 podcast today it got me wanting to play this game.

Admission time: the reason I was putting off playing this game is because I know that I no longer possess the skill necessary to complete it. But it has been a while since last I played it and so I want to give it another go even knowing I'm not going to make it all the way through. I didn't feel like lugging out the good ol' NES so I'm playing this on The Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition.

So far I've just completed the first temple. Got the first heart and magic bottle, the Shield and Jump spells and am ready to head to palace 2 next time around. I'm not even going to say how long it took me to do all of that, but 2 hours is probably not as long as it took for everyone else.

I used to keep track of how many strikes it took to defeat each enemy, I think I even made a list once. I don't really remember all of that now, but I think I still remember what it takes for those flying spark things (who by the way are really exasperating baddies, with their magic-sapping and all). It's always a multiple of eight if I recall correctly, and I think it goes like this:
Level 1: 128 hits
Lvl 2: 96
L3: 64 (!)
4: 48
5: 36
6: 30
7: 24
8: 16
I reached Level 3 when I played so I can confirm the first three counts, but after that I'm not sure. I will have to test this as I play further...

This game could have used one more music track to be used in the caves. The caves use the same music as the random battles and the action sequences when you step on special tiles, and the caves could use some more eerie music anyway. The piece of music is a little too repetitive to be used so often.

One reason the text is so poor is because they limited it to such tiny text boxes. In that small allotted space there is no way they could write out detailed descriptions or even complete sentences. I guess it was too much to ask for expanded text area or scrolling text boxes... Too taxing on the hardware? Or just too lazy?

There were a couple things mentioned in the podcast which I wanted to comment on.

Another bad thing about having certain areas being nondescript tiles on the map is that if an enemy runs into you as you are stepping onto the tile, you won't enter the area after the battle. At certain points, such as when you are searching for the river man's friend in the forest, this can be a problem if this happens because it will seem like you searched the whole area and didn't find anything. You can also take advantage of this and pass some of the action scenes late in the game.

At least those flying statue head thingies which take away your points still give you some points when you defeat them. An enemy which I find more annoying are those orange things that look kind of like a mutant pig or something with a knife sticking out of their chest, found in the first temple and other areas. They take away your points too but you don't get any for defeating them, and they usually spawn to infinity as well!

It's funny what you said about how the music has a lot of vibrato. There was always something about this game's music which seemed strange to me but I could never quite figure out what it was, and now I know. It's interesting though, the sound of the game seemed a little different than what I recall and this prompted me to stop being lazy and bust out the original NES. As strange as it may seem, that vibrato effect is actually slightly less prominent in the original NES version of the game... there is definitely a difference in sound quality between the two! This makes me wonder if the VC version is different as well...

Your mention of the NES game Totally Rad reminded me that I used to own that game, I had completely forgotten about it. I can't really recall anything about the game though, and sadly it was stolen long ago... but I'm about to go order it off of eBay. Gotta spark that childhood memory.

[Sundoulos]

I finally finshed this game yesterday, after dying a number of times.  Whew! 

In case no one was aware, if you die at the last temple and choose to continue, the game will start you at the beginning of the temple with three lives.  This means that you don't have to repeat that long trek through the  boulder-tossing Lizalfos or those lava sections again.  If you're playing it on the VC and have to put the game down, I'd just advise continuing and using the Wii home button rather than saving and starting the journey over from the North Palace.  I guess some might consider that cheating; I just see it as a way to avoid some unnecessary pain!

There is one thing that I realized that I missed in this game, specifically the visual and audio cues that are present in nearly every other Zelda title.  Zelda 2 almost gives you no help in finding your way through temples. This game has nearly no visual cues whatsover for secret rooms, hidden holes, or map tiles; even the audio cues for discovering secrets is sparse and is limited to the overworld.   

The trek through the final palace/temple is absurdly hard, at least by today's standards.   I had forgotten that you had to break a block in the floor just to find a hidden hold in the floor.  Oddly enough, I think playing the original Metroid when I was younger originally helped prepare me for this game moreso than the original Zelda did; otherwise, trying to find hidden passages or holes would probably never have occurred to me.

Someone mentioned this upthread, but the number of new enemies in the final palace is impressive.  I've always dreaded those Bird Knights in the last temple!   They're not impossible (the upward stab is your friend), but it bad to run into them when you're trying to conserve magic.   I think on my last attempt on the temple I tried to avoid combat with the blue Bird Knights whenever possible. 

Also,  I've always thought that the penultimate boss, Thunderbird, was generic-looking and uglier than sin.  Very un-Zelda in design, really. 

I mentoned upthread that, originally, it was a little disappointing to me that the final boss didn't turn out to be Ganon.  This, of course, was before all the other Zelda games with Ganon as the final boss were made.   Shadow Link does make sense for the theme of the game, though, as Link is trying to purge himself of evil and prove himself worthy of the Triforce of Coruage.  I remember being thrilled to see Shadow Link's return in OoT as a mini-boss, but, if I remember correctly, he was tough as nails in that game as well.   

It's also worth noting that Zelda 2 is the only game I know of where Link and Zelda actually (presumably) kiss at the end of the game.  Zelda's end-game sprite also makes her look as if she has severe back pain.

Thanks a Million for reading!

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Edit:  Since the vebrato music was mentioned on the podcast, I thought I would share this.  The music on the Famicom version of Zelda 2 (at least on the title screen) was better I think:
FAmicom Zelda 2 intro
NES Zelda 2 intro

Here is another video I found that highlights small differences between the Famicom and NES versions of the game: Zelda 2 - Famicom Vs NES Differences

• Famicom verison contains some sounds that the NES version does not (e.g. Horsehead's breathing)
• Stabbing an item or an object is necessary for pickup in the Famicom version - see how Link has to stab the child in the Famicom version in order to save him
• Tektites can be damaged with the normal sword in the Famicom version; the NES version requires the use of the Fire spell
• Gooma, the boss of the 5th temple, is not in the Famicom version; instead the player fights a second incarnation of Helmethead (the first temple boss)
• Barba, the boss of the 6th temple, is more animated in the NES version; the Famicom version seems harder to hit.  Incidentally, he is called Volvagia in the Famicom manual...sound familiar?
  
• Leveling is handled differently in the Famicom version; all attribute upgrades cost the same.

[mjafyx]

The four sword adventure on GC had very good side scrolling section. A wiiware version would be very nice.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Yeah, I remember that one tower dungeon being pretty cool in Four Swords Adventures.

[adadad]

Just listened to the latest podcast, pretty interesting discussion of the game. Inspired me to play it today and I was surprised yet again by how good the core combat mechanics feel. It's satisfying. I'm willing to put aside the fact that I just lost all my lives and got sent all the way back home for that reason. Roll on the next Retroactive!