Topic: Sakurai Speaks on Brawl Character Development

[Svevan]

don't get me started on wolf lol ill burn this mother down

[that Baby guy]

The worst part is that the computer's AI for the Fox character is much more advanced than any other character on the starting roster.  It's ridiculous.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Good to know the AI takes advantage of the program's animation timing knowledge to CHEAT.

[vudu]

I was hoping to hear about why the clones were included this time, as well, and why seven characters were at least partially developed, then cut.  If you don't know, some of the characters were definite clone characters, while others may have been unique.

Can you please give specifics or at least link to a source?  I haven't been following too closely, so this is news to me.

[Arbok]

Can you please give specifics or at least link to a source?  I haven't been following too closely, so this is news to me.

There is data on the disc that indicates several other characters who aren't in the actual game, and Mewtwo and Roy even have references to victory themes so those two were very close. The axed characters are:

- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Dixie Kong
- Doctor Mario
- Toon Zelda/Toon Shiek
- Plusle and Minun

[LuigiHann]

Can you please give specifics or at least link to a source?  I haven't been following too closely, so this is news to me.

There is data on the disc that indicates several other characters who aren't in the actual game, and Mewtwo and Roy even have references to victory themes so those two were very close. The axed characters are:

- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Dixie Kong
- Doctor Mario
- Toon Zelda/Toon Shiek
- Plusle and Minun

I wonder how Toon Shiek would have looked or played. Could you really make a lighter, faster Shiek? How would Shiek's appearance translate to Wind Waker style? Weird.

[Arbok]

I wonder how Toon Shiek would have looked or played. Could you really make a lighter, faster Shiek? How would Shiek's appearance translate to Wind Waker style? Weird.

Yes, the idea of making one of the fastest characters in the game into a speedier character does seem bold. Some people are already claiming that Toon Link isn't all that well balanced, so it's probably for the best that Toon Zelda was never attempted.

However, on that note, I do find it amusing how some people scoffed at the notion of Shiek coming back at all as a part of Zelda since they were using the Twilight Princess version... and then here Sakurai was toying with the idea of doing a Shiek for the Wind Waker Zelda as well.

[DAaaMan64]

However, on that note, I do find it amusing how some people scoffed at the notion of Shiek coming back at all as a part of Zelda since they were using the Twilight Princess version... and then here Sakurai was toying with the idea of doing a Shiek for the Wind Waker Zelda as well.

Not to be a picky bitch but I do find it kinda lame that they did that.

[Ceric]

Firstly, and most importantly, a character had to individually stand out.

I'm very confused by this.  Especially with the duplicate not fitting Final Smash.  He even admits that Falco's doesn't fit.  Why not do something with an Arwing?  It could essential be like the Dragoon even...

[GoldenPhoenix]

Firstly, and most importantly, a character had to individually stand out.

I'm very confused by this.  Especially with the duplicate not fitting Final Smash.  He even admits that Falco's doesn't fit.  Why not do something with an Arwing?  It could essential be like the Dragoon even...

Well if you listen to the latest Wiik in review, it is basically stated that Sakurai did NOT want a big roster. So my guess is that they had to pull his teeth to get him to input the roster we currently have, meaning clones.

[Luigi Dude]

Firstly, and most importantly, a character had to individually stand out.

I'm very confused by this.  Especially with the duplicate not fitting Final Smash.  He even admits that Falco's doesn't fit.  Why not do something with an Arwing?  It could essential be like the Dragoon even...

Well if you listen to the latest Wiik in review, it is basically stated that Sakurai did NOT want a big roster. So my guess is that they had to pull his teeth to get him to input the roster we currently have, meaning clones.

Well Sakurai said he wanted to make Brawl balanced.  The more characters you have in a fighting game the harder it is to balance it out.  This is why most fighting games that have a lot of character are broken as all hell. 

In order for Sakurai to make a well balanced game, he CAN'T have a huge roaster like Marvel vs Capcom 2 since there would be no way to balance the game then.  Unless Nintendo delays the game for another 4 years.

[Morari]

THIS POST HAS BEEN CENSORED FOR YOUR PROTECTION

--Bureau of Internet Morality

[Stogi]

Can anyone tell me if the AI is better this time?

Lvl 9 in Melee was too easy.

[Arbok]

Can anyone tell me if the AI is better this time?

Lvl 9 in Melee was too easy.

It's much, much better.  I have seen videos where I even swore it was a human playing due to the computer's general proficiency. They no longer drop what they are doing and run for Pokéballs at all costs either, and are much more normal in relation to items in general. The real improvement, though, is best seen in the 1 on 1 bouts, such as this one with a Human Ike for a lvl 9 Marth (although the Marth still messes up when trying to do his Final Smash the first time):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etDxaSpH8Cc

[Stogi]

Dude, Ike is a badass! Thanks for the clip, I'm glad it's a lot better.

Also, do you know if it is possible to counter a FS with ike/marth?

[Ceric]

I'm

Firstly, and most importantly, a character had to individually stand out.

I'm very confused by this.  Especially with the duplicate not fitting Final Smash.  He even admits that Falco's doesn't fit.  Why not do something with an Arwing?  It could essential be like the Dragoon even...

Well if you listen to the latest Wiik in review, it is basically stated that Sakurai did NOT want a big roster. So my guess is that they had to pull his teeth to get him to input the roster we currently have, meaning clones.

Well Sakurai said he wanted to make Brawl balanced.  The more characters you have in a fighting game the harder it is to balance it out.  This is why most fighting games that have a lot of character are broken as all hell. 

In order for Sakurai to make a well balanced game, he CAN'T have a huge roaster like Marvel vs Capcom 2 since there would be no way to balance the game then.  Unless Nintendo delays the game for another 4 years.

I'm not really argueing the size of the roster.  I'm fine with the size that it is.  I'm even fine with the tweak clones.  What I'm not fine is matching final smashes that don't fit the character themselves.  With all the polish in this game it slaps me as amatuerish and raw.  Like Final Smash for those characters where an after thought.  With 2.5 years of lock down on the who the characters were the Final smashes should have fit there personality more.  Plus with what it takes to call a final smash it seems that some or renderred useless by a pit in the center of the stage.  Don't add something your not going to bring fully to the level of the rest of the game.

[Arbok]

Also, do you know if it is possible to counter a FS with ike/marth?

Counter, with a move? No. Just dodge them, it's the only real way. If you dodge the Marth one it could be lethal for that player too, as they have a chance to keep going a KO them self.

I'm not really argueing the size of the roster.  I'm fine with the size that it is.  I'm even fine with the tweak clones.  What I'm not fine is matching final smashes that don't fit the character themselves.  With all the polish in this game it slaps me as amatuerish and raw.  Like Final Smash for those characters where an after thought.  With 2.5 years of lock down on the who the characters were the Final smashes should have fit there personality more.  Plus with what it takes to call a final smash it seems that some or renderred useless by a pit in the center of the stage.  Don't add something your not going to bring fully to the level of the rest of the game.

I have less of a problem with the fact that Final Smashes are unbalanced, which is clear when you compare ones like Luigi's with say the Landmaster, which is fairly able to score several kills during its execution. My problem, likewise, is that we have repeats in the way of two Starstorms (one of those should have been PK Rockin), two Triforce Slashes (a flood for Toon Link would have been more apt) and three Landmasters... especially for Wolf.

[Ceric]

Also, do you know if it is possible to counter a FS with ike/marth?

Counter, with a move? No. Just dodge them, it's the only real way. If you dodge the Marth one it could be lethal for that player too, as they have a chance to keep going a KO them self.

I'm not really argueing the size of the roster.  I'm fine with the size that it is.  I'm even fine with the tweak clones.  What I'm not fine is matching final smashes that don't fit the character themselves.  With all the polish in this game it slaps me as amatuerish and raw.  Like Final Smash for those characters where an after thought.  With 2.5 years of lock down on the who the characters were the Final smashes should have fit there personality more.  Plus with what it takes to call a final smash it seems that some or renderred useless by a pit in the center of the stage.  Don't add something your not going to bring fully to the level of the rest of the game.

I have less of a problem with the fact that Final Smashes are unbalanced, which is clear when you compare ones like Luigi's with say the Landmaster, which is fairly able to score several kills during its execution. My problem, likewise, is that we have repeats in the way of two Starstorms (one of those should have been PK Rockin), two Triforce Slashes (a flood for Toon Link would have been more apt) and three Landmasters... especially for Wolf.

A flood be cool fo toon link or a time slow down like in the area under the sea.  Also I think the Deku (sp? its been a while) leaf would have made a cool move addition.  Especailly with floating and the wind gusts.