Poll

Will Nintendo pull off another 30 for 30 in Japan sales this year and, if so, how many times?

Yes. 1 time.
1 (9.1%)
Yes. 2 times.
0 (0%)
Yes. 3 times.
1 (9.1%)
Yes. 4 times.
1 (9.1%)
Yes. 5 times.
1 (9.1%)
Yes. 6 times.
0 (0%)
Yes. 7 times.
1 (9.1%)
Yes. 8 times.
0 (0%)
Yes. 9 times.
2 (18.2%)
Ninten-domination! 10 times or more that the top 30 goes to Nintendo Software.
4 (36.4%)
No. It doesn't happen once this year. Sony plays spoiler.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 16, 2023, 10:54:36 AM

Author Topic: Official Sales Thread  (Read 3163687 times)

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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7750 on: February 29, 2012, 08:43:19 PM »
Has there been at least one article yet that suggests Sony will go third party like they always do to Nintendo?
Because they have nothing to offer the world as a third party.

That may have been true 10 years ago, but Sony's built up a pretty impressive stable of development studios. Their first party lineup is the best reason to own a PS3. Microsoft, on the other hand, has a pretty **** first party lineup; most of their exclusives are things like Gears of War and the original Mass Effect, where Microsoft paid outside developers for their exclusivity.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7751 on: March 01, 2012, 12:43:10 AM »
Twisted Metal, God of War, Uncharted, Killzone, Little Big Planet, Resistance, and Infamous are among the things Sony could offer as a 3rd party.


... and I for one would love to see them come to the Wii U. ;)
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7752 on: March 01, 2012, 02:15:25 AM »
God Twisted Metal... probably one of the few PSX games I actually wanted back in the day. co-op story mode... *drool*
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7753 on: March 01, 2012, 02:47:11 AM »
Sony actually was a 3rd party developer from the years 1989-1995.

You can read all about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Imagesoft
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7754 on: March 01, 2012, 02:51:29 AM »
And they were awful. Like, even worse than PlayStation 1 era Sony first party software. I own one of their games, ESPN National Hockey Night for Genesis. I only own it because I got it for 99ΒΆ, and only then because it has the National Hockey Night music, which is the best sports theme music ever made. To this day, that's the main reason I'm upset there's no hockey on ESPN.
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7755 on: March 01, 2012, 05:33:38 PM »
I just want to see one ultimate doom article for Sony. The industry just hates Nintendo with a passion.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7756 on: March 01, 2012, 05:48:22 PM »
I just want to see one ultimate doom article for Sony. The industry just hates Nintendo with a passion.

 ::)
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Offline Enner

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7757 on: March 01, 2012, 05:52:08 PM »
I just want to see one ultimate doom article for Sony. The industry just hates Nintendo with a passion.

They hate because they love and care so much! And Sony's financials aren't in good shape, at least from hearsay.
For better or for worse, people have a closer eye and heart on Nintendo, worrying or watching their every move. If Sony were to exit or become a third-party publisher, it would be the year's headline (at least in the video game world). If Nintendo were to do it, I can't imagine a world where it wouldn't be a historic inflection point.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7758 on: March 01, 2012, 06:50:48 PM »
And they were awful. Like, even worse than PlayStation 1 era Sony first party software.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7759 on: March 01, 2012, 08:25:19 PM »
I just want to see one ultimate doom article for Sony. The industry just hates Nintendo with a passion.

 ::)

I don't know about the entire industry as a whole, but he does have a point. It seems like every video game magazine I've ever read that wasn't Nintendo Power seems like they only report on the Nintendo games and hardware grudgingly because that's their job but its not something they want to do.  And then you have analysts like Pachter and many others who predict Nintendo will fail, and even though they get proven wrong over and over again they still keep making those predictions. Like right now Pachter recently predicted the Wii U will fail, even though all signs seem to be pointing to Nintendo being on track for success with it.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7760 on: March 01, 2012, 09:29:31 PM »
I just want to see one ultimate doom article for Sony. The industry just hates Nintendo with a passion.

 ::)

I don't know about the entire industry as a whole, but he does have a point. It seems like every video game magazine I've ever read that wasn't Nintendo Power seems like they only report on the Nintendo games and hardware grudgingly because that's their job but its not something they want to do.

Riiiiiiight, the "industry" as a whole "hates" Nintendo.  That's why so many journalists practically trip over themselves to lavish Nintendo 1st party titles with high review scores, regardless of whether those titles deserve them *cough*bothWiiZeldas*cough* (and many more).  If folks in the industry don't like talking about Nintendo at times, it's because Nintendo is not interested in releasing the kind of titles that folks really into gaming are interested in.  Just look at what the tremendous amount of fan and industry pressure it took for NoA to release the Operation Rainfall games when they had nothing else worth mentioning set for release in the Wii's final years.  It's hard to be excited about a company that couldn't care less what you're interested in as an industry insider.

Quote
And then you have analysts like Pachter and many others who predict Nintendo will fail, and even though they get proven wrong over and over again they still keep making those predictions. Like right now Pachter recently predicted the Wii U will fail, even though all signs seem to be pointing to Nintendo being on track for success with it.

I'm not a huge fan of Pacter, but he's said on more than one occasion (there's a particular Pac Attack episode where he addresses this) that an analyst is considered successful if they can accurately predict trends around a surprisingly low percentage.  IIRC the number's around 30-50%.  He's not right all the time, and I don't think he pretends that he is.

I am curious, though, just what "all these signs" are that point to the Wii U being successful.  Nothing about what I've seen of the console convinces me that there is yet anything special about it, anything that makes it worth my purchase when the games it's touted as having I can already play on my existing consoles.  And they've announced nothing that convinces me they'll keep their existing casual audience with this console.  IMO, Nintendo has yet to announce anything that makes the Wii U especially noteworthy (no, not even the tablet controller, a gimmick created around a feature I have no use for).  Hopefully E3 will be better in that regard, but right now I'm not seeing a Home Run from Nintendo on the Wii U yet.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7761 on: March 01, 2012, 10:24:47 PM »
The "industry" (so-called) doesn't hate Nintendo. They just had a really bad break-up, which made them momentarily forget that even though they've grown apart, they still have shared values, a shared history, and a deep core of enduring mutual respect.

^_^

But I get what you're saying Chozo. I've felt that nagging sense of minority exclusion or otherness ever since I read (and loved) that Next-Gen magazine from the 90's. I don't know why, I'd like to say it's a real thing, but it may also be some sort of prickly persecution complex I've picked up during all those years when Nintendo was NOT in vogue per se. I may just be too close to the issue, and may never really know...

Anyways, in lieu of anything better I'll assume the glass is half full and think that next to imitation, ardent, passionate, and even pointed criticism is the next highest form of praise! (Can't we all just get along? Somebody think of the Pikmin!)

I have heard some sony-doom commentary, but definitely not as much as Nintendo. Maybe that's because Nintendo is unique and doesn't fit the mold or adhere to conventional wisdom. That makes Nintendo immensely more difficult to understand, and when you don't understand something, it's easier to fear it... or at least predict it's demise/unsuitability.

I'm not surprised Pachter has a hard time predicting Nintendo's moves, they're such a unique, individualistic, earnestly independent company that I doubt general models can describe their nature. I think you sort of need to specialize in Nintendo, know where they've come from and what they've had to survive, know how they think and why they've changed their minds in the past, know who is bringing new viewpoints to their philosophy and when that philosophy is being applied or misapplied.

...That's why I think it's great to be a Nintendo fan. Other's can try to ocassionally understand the company, but we've been on the frontlines of every battle. We're the specialists on Nintendo because where other people can only bring analysis to the table, we bring life experience.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7762 on: March 01, 2012, 10:38:57 PM »
That's why so many journalists practically trip over themselves to lavish Nintendo 1st party titles with high review scores, regardless of whether those titles deserve them.
They rated Skyrim highly too. Reviewers overrate games all the time, it isn't exclusive to Nintendo.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7763 on: March 02, 2012, 01:24:13 AM »
Riiiiiiight, the "industry" as a whole "hates" Nintendo.  That's why so many journalists practically trip over themselves to lavish Nintendo 1st party titles with high review scores, regardless of whether those titles deserve them *cough*bothWiiZeldas*cough* (and many more).  If folks in the industry don't like talking about Nintendo at times, it's because Nintendo is not interested in releasing the kind of titles that folks really into gaming are interested in.  Just look at what the tremendous amount of fan and industry pressure it took for NoA to release the Operation Rainfall games when they had nothing else worth mentioning set for release in the Wii's final years.  It's hard to be excited about a company that couldn't care less what you're interested in as an industry insider.

I said in my post which you quoted "I don't know about the industry as a whole", meaning I agree its not the entire industry. What I said was he had a point because I've seen a lot of anti-Nintendo bias. Of course its not that way with every editor in every magazine, but it seems to be the case with the majority. They do give many Nintendo AAA games like Zelda high scores, but they pretty much have to because those games are great and do deserve a high score, and if they didn't there would be a backlash from fans. They can't get away with attacking Nintendo's AAA titles, but they do snipe at Nintendo in other ways whenever they can.

I've seen in Game Informer where they routinely bash Wii games as having "poor graphics" and give the game overall a low score even though in other respects it might be awesome. They don't do that with the untouchable AAA games like Mario or Zelda, but they regularly do this with all the others. When judging a game's graphics shouldn't the reviewers take into account the limitations of the system that game is on? It is no secret that the Wii can't do HD graphics and everyone knows this, so why do they constantly bring down the rating of Wii games on the basis of lacking HD graphics which is impossible for the game to have?

And in a recent magazine a few months ago they congratulated the Xbox 360 for selling 60 million consoles and then they congratulated the PS3 for being not far behind, and then in the fine print they said the Wii was in 1st place with over 100 million but also slammed it as being "irrelevant". How is that not an anti-Nintendo bias? And I've seen articles discussing the upcoming war between the next xbox and the PS4 with no mention of the WiiU whatsoever as if it doesn't even exist. I don't want to get into discussing politics, but the way Nintendo is treated by the gaming media reminds me a lot of how the MSM treats Ron Paul (like he doesn't exist).

I'm not a huge fan of Pacter, but he's said on more than one occasion (there's a particular Pac Attack episode where he addresses this) that an analyst is considered successful if they can accurately predict trends around a surprisingly low percentage.  IIRC the number's around 30-50%.  He's not right all the time, and I don't think he pretends that he is.

I'll never forget some analyst's prediction back in 2006 that the Wii was going to sell 18 million units total and be in a distant third this generation, and this prediction came after E3 of that year when there was so much hype and excitement. It annoys and angers me that people are getting paid, and probably paid well, to make these idiotic predictions. There's no one who could ever be 100% accurate and I accept that, but you could take any random person from this or any other site and their predictions would probably be no less accurate than that of these so called "professionals" who are getting paid for this. And there does seem to be an anti-Nintendo bias in these predictions. It used to be "Nintendo was going to fail", but when Nintendo succeeded they changed it to "Nintendo will fail in the future". They absolutely refuse to ever acknowledge or accept the reality that Nintendo is here to stay.

I am curious, though, just what "all these signs" are that point to the Wii U being successful.  Nothing about what I've seen of the console convinces me that there is yet anything special about it, anything that makes it worth my purchase when the games it's touted as having I can already play on my existing consoles.  And they've announced nothing that convinces me they'll keep their existing casual audience with this console.  IMO, Nintendo has yet to announce anything that makes the Wii U especially noteworthy (no, not even the tablet controller, a gimmick created around a feature I have no use for).  Hopefully E3 will be better in that regard, but right now I'm not seeing a Home Run from Nintendo on the Wii U yet.

What I mean by "all signs" is that it looks like Nintendo has got their act more or less together and have addressed a lot of the complaints developers had with the Wii. The hardware seems to be adequately powerful enough to hold its own, and the online infrastructure seems to be coming together. Maybe in the end Nintendo will **** it up somehow, but so far based on the rumors it sounds like the developers are reasonably impressed, and that is a good sign. If Pachter and all those other assclowns did their jobs they would be looking into what people in the know are saying and factor that into their predictions, but they don't.

What it seems like to me is these analysts are basing their predictions on obsolete information. That idiot in 2006 who predicted the Wii would sell only 18 million consoles was probably basing his prediction on the Gamecube, and assumed that since the Gamecube was in 3rd place then the Wii would also end up that way. And now Packtard seems to be thinking the WiiU will have terrible third party support just becasue the Wii did. These analysts never seem to take into account that things do change and Nintendo seems to have at least tried to fix those issues which caused the Wii to have terrible 3rd party support.

The job of these analysts is supposed to be predicting the future, but really what they seem to be doing is just telling you what the present is and then extending that 5 years into the future as if not one single thing has changed. That's like a weatherman predicting its going to be raining 5 days from now just because it happens to be raining today. There is a 30-50% chance he could be right, but instead of listening to him we could use things like satellites and doppler radar and so on and get a prediction which is 90% accurate. That's the kind of analyzing that Packtard should be doing. He says a 30-50% accuracy rating is a job well done, but an analyst with a brain could maybe boost that accuracy to 70-80%.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7764 on: March 02, 2012, 01:27:24 AM »
That's why so many journalists practically trip over themselves to lavish Nintendo 1st party titles with high review scores, regardless of whether those titles deserve them.
They rated Skyrim highly too. Reviewers overrate games all the time, it isn't exclusive to Nintendo.

No, it isn't.  But I find it hilarious how certain diehards whine about anti-Nintendo bias when the average review for a Nintendo 1st party title has a slightly to very inflated review score (we'll see how well that goes once reviewers can no longer use the "for a Wii game" excuse).  Naturally, though, when people speak of "fairness" and "bias", what they really mean is that they want Nintendo's reviews to be inflated and everyone else's be deflated by comparison.  And folks on podcasts and editorials should be spending their time praising Nintendo up-and-down for finally doing things the rest of the industry was doing years ago.  Yeah, that just about sums up the hypocrisy.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7765 on: March 02, 2012, 01:32:44 AM »
I've seen in Game Informer where they routinely bash Wii games as having "poor graphics" and give the game overall a low score even though in other respects it might be awesome. They don't do that with the untouchable AAA games like Mario or Zelda, but they regularly do this with all the others. When judging a game's graphics shouldn't the reviewers take into account the limitations of the system that game is on? It is no secret that the Wii can't do HD graphics and everyone knows this, so why do they constantly bring down the rating of Wii games on the basis of lacking HD graphics which is impossible for the game to have?

And in a recent magazine a few months ago they congratulated the Xbox 360 for selling 60 million consoles and then they congratulated the PS3 for being not far behind, and then in the fine print they said the Wii was in 1st place with over 100 million but also slammed it as being "irrelevant". How is that not an anti-Nintendo bias? And I've seen articles discussing the upcoming war between the next xbox and the PS4 with no mention of the WiiU whatsoever as if it doesn't even exist.

Do you really want to hold up Game Informer as your source of bias?  This is the same magazine whose review policy specifically states that a 7/10 is "average" and is completely owned and operated by GameStop?  And I'm sorry, but the vast majority of Wii games are dirt ugly by any measuring stick.  It has nothing to do with technical limitations and everything to do with talent and art direction.  The vast majority of Wii games don't look as good as a Xenoblade or a DKCR, and they don't deserve to judged by a lower standard just because Nintendo decided to go cheap on the hardware this generation.  I find it rather ironic that so many of the more vocal Nintendo fans are happy to boast about Wii sales in comparison to the other consoles, but suddenly they want special treatment and concessions when it comes to actually judging the merits of the software/hardware.

Besides, I see the same sort of complaints from GI on games on the HD platforms, and I could probably look back through the last 6 issues of the mag and find at least a dozen games I've personally disagreed with them on.

That's not bias.  It's incompetence, something Game Informer routinely excels at.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 04:26:28 AM by broodwars »
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7766 on: March 02, 2012, 03:15:04 AM »
The "kewl" game media portion of the industry hates Nintendo. The fat ones who wear shorts that hang below their knees.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7767 on: March 02, 2012, 04:28:51 AM »
I don't think any significant portion of the gaming media "hates" Nintendo. Not everyone is a huge fan of theirs, and not everyone keeps up with every little detail about them, but I sincerely doubt any of them have any kind of malicious intent with it. People have their own personal tastes, and they tend to gravitate toward them.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7768 on: March 02, 2012, 05:30:02 AM »
I don't think any significant portion of the gaming media "hates" Nintendo. Not everyone is a huge fan of theirs, and not everyone keeps up with every little detail about them, but I sincerely doubt any of them have any kind of malicious intent with it. People have their own personal tastes, and they tend to gravitate toward them.

How come sometimes it feels like so few people's tastes include the sorts of games one can find on Nintendo systems?
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7769 on: March 02, 2012, 05:51:39 AM »
I don't think any significant portion of the gaming media "hates" Nintendo. Not everyone is a huge fan of theirs, and not everyone keeps up with every little detail about them, but I sincerely doubt any of them have any kind of malicious intent with it. People have their own personal tastes, and they tend to gravitate toward them.

How come sometimes it feels like so few people's tastes include the sorts of games one can find on Nintendo systems?

i.e. games that got "Not Recommended...except for Kairon" (a real category we had on this site at one time) ratings?   ;)   The Wii got plenty of those this generation.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 05:55:26 AM by broodwars »
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7770 on: March 02, 2012, 07:29:59 AM »
I don't think any significant portion of the gaming media "hates" Nintendo. Not everyone is a huge fan of theirs, and not everyone keeps up with every little detail about them, but I sincerely doubt any of them have any kind of malicious intent with it. People have their own personal tastes, and they tend to gravitate toward them.

How come sometimes it feels like so few people's tastes include the sorts of games one can find on Nintendo systems?

The top tier games on Nintendo systems get great reviews on most sites. Go look at MetaCritic's all time rankings and you'll see Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 in the top four (three, really, as both games above them are versions of GTA IV). More obscure titles have to compete with the more obscure titles on other platforms, and that reduces how many of them any given person can play. Even if you're doing this for a living, you've only got so much time to devote to gaming, and you have to decide what's important to you. Again, any lack of Nintendo focus should be attributed to personal taste, not an outright bias against the company.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 07:31:40 AM by NWR_insanolord »
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7771 on: March 02, 2012, 09:53:29 AM »
Okay - if there is no bias against Nintendo...

If it all has to do with personal tastes...

To bring this around to the original question...

I assume someone can show me the articles where Sony and Microsoft need to give up making consoles and just make third party/cell phone games?

We've been hearing this "Third Party Nintendo" line since the N64 days.  Nintendo has, virtually, always turned a profit.  Meanwhile, the games divisions of Sony and Microsoft have leaked cash like the Titantic - so there should be plenty of articles detailing how the two should just give up the console race and go third party (and I don't mean pre-launch/early-launch original XBox articles telling Microsoft to not get into the console wars...)
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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7772 on: March 02, 2012, 10:03:43 AM »
I think the short answer is wishful thinking. Even with Sony's emergence as a strong first party, people care more about Nintendo's software, and a lot of people buy Nintendo systems only for Nintendo games and nothing else, so they'd rather get them on the other systems. Also, the fact that Nintendo is only a gaming company probably plays a factor, with the assumption being that if Sony or Microsoft were getting out of the game business they'd just sell off all their development teams instead of retaining them and staying in the business as a third party.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7773 on: March 02, 2012, 10:42:08 AM »
Again, any lack of Nintendo focus should be attributed to personal taste, not an outright bias against the company.

Sorry for nitpicking, but isn't "personal taste" kinda the definition of "bias"? If someone's personal taste was for the PS360 and not for the Wii then isn't that a bias? I guess it would be legitimate bias, but a bias nonetheless, and that is going to be reflected subconsciously in their reviews.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 10:47:45 AM by Chozo Ghost »
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Official Wii Sales Thread
« Reply #7774 on: March 02, 2012, 10:54:12 AM »
Well if having personal taste is bias then every member of the gaming media is biased, and it's ludicrous to expect them not to be. It's a matter of degree, and of rationality. Reviews are 100% subjective, and don't let anyone tell you different; part of the process of reading reviews is taking into account the personal tastes of the reviewer.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 10:56:41 AM by NWR_insanolord »
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