Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[BlackNMild2k1]

Wii used DVD.
GC used miniDVD
Wii U will use Bluray.

With GC Nintendo changed how they were read, not what the physical disc was.
Same thing with Wii, only they also did not use DVD licensing which is why the stock system won't play DVD.
Most likely the same deal with Bluray and movie playback licensing for Wii U.

[Caterkiller]

Host: "It's that time again!"

Audience: "Everybody hates Nintendo!"

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2012/04/why-are-video-game-sales-looking-so-weak-lately-blame-nintendo.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

But the suffering is not being borne equally across the industry. In fact, if you had to distill the root cause of the downturn in NPD's reported numbers into a single word, that word would be the company that very recently helped the industry grow to new record heights: Nintendo.

"Everybody needs to realize that the Wii software segment is trending down 50 percent year over year, and has been for the last 12 months," Cowen and Company analyst Doug Creutz told Ars Technica. "That is a massive decline. There's no way you could not have a decline overall with that big of a decline in that portion of the software."

Ten years ago, Nintendo largely catered to kids and Nintendo fanboys," Creutz said. "There was about a five year period they could expand their market beyond that, and now I think they're back back to the kids and Nintendo fanboys again. It's not a bad market but it's not a market that's going to grow enormously.

[oohhboy]

Ars Technica normally puts out pretty solid articles, but that one was exceptionally moronic. 9 Paragraphs of analysis that completely misses why there is a downturn in the gaming industry.

End of console generation life transition, bad economy means less disposable income, general lack of compelling games to play. Games sell consoles, not the other way around. How fucking hard is this? **** sakes I wish I could be paid for such incompetent analysis.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Blaming Nintendo is definitely a stretch, though I do understand where they are coming from even if it is a poor argument. 360 and PS3 both have decent sized chunks of the industry, and if the truth be told they were the ones sustaining most of the sales the previous years since most Wii titles that sold well were Nintendo published. You would maybe see a couple of Wii games in the sales charts, most were 360 and PS3 games if I recall correctly, so it honestly makes no sense.


Hardware sales are approaching their peak with willing buyers as well. Wii has sold millions upon millions in the U.S., and has pretty much reached market saturation.

[Caterkiller]

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2012/04/16/navegante/1334559905.html

The creator anticipates that at E3, the largest exhibition of video games, held in June in Los Angeles, Nintendo will launch a new Super Mario for this platform, which will combine the TV screen with the remote.

He will retire someday and is trying to prepare Nintendo, he is almost 60.

Very cool interview but it's all in spanish. You'll have translate it.

[lolmonade]

Host: "It's that time again!"

Audience: "Everybody hates Nintendo!"

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2012/04/why-are-video-game-sales-looking-so-weak-lately-blame-nintendo.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

But the suffering is not being borne equally across the industry. In fact, if you had to distill the root cause of the downturn in NPD's reported numbers into a single word, that word would be the company that very recently helped the industry grow to new record heights: Nintendo.

"Everybody needs to realize that the Wii software segment is trending down 50 percent year over year, and has been for the last 12 months," Cowen and Company analyst Doug Creutz told Ars Technica. "That is a massive decline. There's no way you could not have a decline overall with that big of a decline in that portion of the software."

Ten years ago, Nintendo largely catered to kids and Nintendo fanboys," Creutz said. "There was about a five year period they could expand their market beyond that, and now I think they're back back to the kids and Nintendo fanboys again. It's not a bad market but it's not a market that's going to grow enormously.

While there was some hyperbole in that article, I read it more as "Nintendo's largely responsible for the sharp decline in sales because their success had inflated the market beyond traditional means, and that casual market hasn't been retained in recent history due to a lack of more software support that appeals to them". 
 
For Nintendo, once the casual market begins to abandon them, or what I believe is complete market saturation occurs (meaning they've mostly sold as many Wii's as they're going to sell), coupled with the typical slow period between an old console's death and new one's birth, it isn't surprising that their sales are going to dwindle.  And it should be no surprise that when the juggernaut (in terms of sales) of the three consoles takes a nosedive in software sales, then it'll have a sizeable impact in the entire industry numbers.

[Evan_B]

I pray it's not New Super Mario Bros. I want a pretty, HD 3D Mario, especially if we're getting a 2D Mario for the 3DS.

[Adrock]

I absolutely want the 1st Mario game on Wii U to be a 2D game, just not New Super Mario Bros. That's probably wishful thinking. The more I think about it the more I dislike the art direction. It's too bright and, frankly, quite awful. In terms of gameplay, sticking with that formula through a 3rd game is likely pushing it. It's bound to get old.

[nickmitch]

He couldn't say that Nintendo was planning to announce a new Mario game and it be New Super Mario Bros Mii because that was announced last year. I'm eager to see what it'll be though. Maybe a SMW3D?

[Evan_B]

No more Galaxy/Land3D style gameplay, please. I hate the mission structure of those games. Plus, they don't need an excuse to put more bottomless pits in Mario games. Let it be like Super Mario 64 and Sunshine, 64 moreso.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I absolutely want the 1st Mario game on Wii U to be a 2D game, just not New Super Mario Bros. That's probably wishful thinking. The more I think about it the more I dislike the art direction. It's too bright and, frankly, quite awful. In terms of gameplay, sticking with that formula through a 3rd game is likely pushing it. It's bound to get old.

I would love to see a new Mario game done like Wario Land: Shake It, with the hand drawn looking visuals. Kind of a retro throwback to the SNES/NES Mario titles.

[Ian Sane]

I realize that a new Mario now means squat to me.  I didn't buy a 3DS for it and I won't buy a Wii U for it.  Now if I bought a Wii U for a different reason I would certainly buy any Mario platformer for it.  But it isn't special to me anymore.

It's just the law of diminishing returns.  Pikmin 3 might sell me a Wii U but that's because Pikmin is still very fresh.  Mario is damn stale.  So is Zelda.  I still like them but I don't NEED them.  The idea of missing the next game in the series because I don't own the system doesn't bother me at all.  I've been pushing for Nintendo to create more new IP for a while and really that is what is going to sell me on the Wii U.  It could be new IP from third parties but the same franchises I've been playing for over 20 years don't matter to me anymore.

[Adrock]

I would love to see a new Mario game done like Wario Land: Shake It, with the hand drawn looking visuals. Kind of a retro throwback to the SNES/NES Mario titles.

Visually, I wouldn't mind this. However, Wario Land: Shake It separated the levels into "rooms" which I didn't like. If Nintendo or whoever handled the game could get the levels to be continuous (minus warp pipes) then I'd be all for the HD hand-drawn look.

Still, if Nintendo would put some effort into the art design, they could get a lot out of using polygons. I suggested a 2.5D Mario game a few months back where every world represented a different Mario game and adopted that game's art style but using 3D polygonal models.

[Caterkiller]

I realize that a new Mario now means squat to me.  I didn't buy a 3DS for it and I won't buy a Wii U for it.  Now if I bought a Wii U for a different reason I would certainly buy any Mario platformer for it.  But it isn't special to me anymore.

It's just the law of diminishing returns.  Pikmin 3 might sell me a Wii U but that's because Pikmin is still very fresh.  Mario is damn stale.  So is Zelda.  I still like them but I don't NEED them.  The idea of missing the next game in the series because I don't own the system doesn't bother me at all.  I've been pushing for Nintendo to create more new IP for a while and really that is what is going to sell me on the Wii U.  It could be new IP from third parties but the same franchises I've been playing for over 20 years don't matter to me anymore.

So what do you get excited for now a'days?

[GoldenPhoenix]

I would love to see a new Mario game done like Wario Land: Shake It, with the hand drawn looking visuals. Kind of a retro throwback to the SNES/NES Mario titles.

Visually, I wouldn't mind this. However, Wario Land: Shake It separated the levels into "rooms" which I didn't like. If Nintendo or whoever handled the game could get the levels to be continuous (minus warp pipes) then I'd be all for the HD hand-drawn look.

Still, if Nintendo would put some effort into the art design, they could get a lot out of using polygons. I suggested a 2.5D Mario game a few months back where every world represented a different Mario game and adopted that game's art style but using 3D polygonal models.

I mean more the look of things, rather then how Wario Land played. The 2D Polygonal Mario games seem kind of lazily put together lately, especially when it comes borrowing assets from Galaxy or other 3D Mario games ( (the first New Super Mario Bros being one of the worse examples of this), so if they could create something fresh visually, unique for the game I could see a polygon game being better visually. Still I'd prefer a hand drawn look.

[Ian Sane]

I realize that a new Mario now means squat to me.  I didn't buy a 3DS for it and I won't buy a Wii U for it.  Now if I bought a Wii U for a different reason I would certainly buy any Mario platformer for it.  But it isn't special to me anymore.

It's just the law of diminishing returns.  Pikmin 3 might sell me a Wii U but that's because Pikmin is still very fresh.  Mario is damn stale.  So is Zelda.  I still like them but I don't NEED them.  The idea of missing the next game in the series because I don't own the system doesn't bother me at all.  I've been pushing for Nintendo to create more new IP for a while and really that is what is going to sell me on the Wii U.  It could be new IP from third parties but the same franchises I've been playing for over 20 years don't matter to me anymore.

So what do you get excited for now a'days?

Not much since Nintendo is content to recycle the same stuff.  Xenoblade is pretty damn cool since it has Nintendo level quality and polish and doesn't look and feel like the same old Nintendo game I've been playing for years.  I've only started it but I'm interested in the world in the characters because I know it isn't just "the Princess has been kidnapped by Bowser.  Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the Princess?"  Novelty is a thrill.  The NSMB games are fun but they are predictable and have no thrill of novelty.  When I'm playing yet another Nintendo sequel I am rarely surprised anymore.  I like watching old episodes of Seinfeld and The Simpsons but I sure don't laugh at them like I do with a brand new comedy where I don't already know the punchline.

Regarding 2D Mario I've never met anyone who is all hot for polygons in a 2D game.  Nintendo seems to be thinking it's 1996 and they have to "sell" us on 3D but using polygons for every game.  Everyone who's on a nostaglic kick is nostalgic for SPRITES.  People will put up with polygons but Nintendo is out-of-touch to think that using polygons is the ideal choice for nostalgic appeal.  The reason they use it is simple: no one is NOT going to buy the game just because it uses polygons and by using polygons they can re-use the same old Mario Party 4 models again and again.  They have an excuse to cheap out so they do it.

[Spak-Spang]

The 3D polygon models are used because it is easier and cheaper to make a game with them.  It is easy to add new textures to existing models and add effects to make the game look nicer. 

We knew Nintendo was doing this for some time, as Nintendo set up artists that were just making 3D models of their characters to be used in games.  I think this was mostly done for the Mario series of games...Party, and New Super Mario games. 

Although I don't like it...it makes sense.  I personally don't understand why they won't just use Cell shading to make these 3D models look like HD sprites. 

[Chozo Ghost]

I've been pushing for Nintendo to create more new IP for a while and really that is what is going to sell me on the Wii U.  It could be new IP from third parties but the same franchises I've been playing for over 20 years don't matter to me anymore.

Xenoblade Chronicles and the other Operation Rainfall games. These are new IPs which are Wii exclusive. I don't know if they are Nintendo owned or made, but they are Nintendo published... and now that they're finally making their way over to North America there is little to complain about. But its up to us as gamers to buy these games, because only if they sell will there ever be any hope of them becoming established franchises which will see sequels in the future. And it is also important that these games sell for the sake of the creation of other new IPs as well. If the Operation Rainfall games sell extremely well then Nintendo and other companies will see the potential in developing new things, as opposed to milking the same sequels year after year.

So the question to you is have you done your part and purchased/pre-ordered these games? If you have then you've done everything you should and you've put your money where your mouth is. But if you haven't then what right do you have to complain? If you aren't going to buy the games even if they are delivered then why does it matter to you if they are?

And that said, you also should check out No More Heroes and Little King's Story on the Wii if you ever get a chance. I know there hasn't been a lot of stellar third party support for the Wii this generation, but these two titles are exceptions which every Wii owner should check out. And since you are a fan of Pikmin you should especially look into LKS because it is somewhat similar.

[GoldenPhoenix]

The 3D polygon models are used because it is easier and cheaper to make a game with them.  It is easy to add new textures to existing models and add effects to make the game look nicer. 

We knew Nintendo was doing this for some time, as Nintendo set up artists that were just making 3D models of their characters to be used in games.  I think this was mostly done for the Mario series of games...Party, and New Super Mario games. 

Although I don't like it...it makes sense.  I personally don't understand why they won't just use Cell shading to make these 3D models look like HD sprites. 

That would be a fair compromise. I understand the reason for the polygons, doesn't mean I have to like them though. The way Mario games sell, Nintendo could afford to put a little more resources into the games. One thing that bothers me about NIntendo lately, especially with the Mario games, is that they seem to constantly cheap out and get lazy with them, specifically the NSMB series.


Also in regards to Nintendo owning properties, they own Xenoblade since they own Monolith Soft.

[Ian Sane]

So the question to you is have you done your part and purchased/pre-ordered these games? If you have then you've done everything you should and you've put your money where your mouth is. But if you haven't then what right do you have to complain? If you aren't going to buy the games even if they are delivered then why does it matter to you if they are?

Well I've got Xenoblade.  Haven't looked much into the others yet.  But realistically new IP should not be so infrequent that one should feel the pressure that they HAVE to buy all of it.  What if I didn't like RPGs?  I would gladly buy a new platformer or FPS IP but since Nintendo doesn't release either, how to I vote with my wallet?  Sometimes there are elections where you don't want to vote for ANY of the candidates, so you don't.  "Well you can't complain then."  BULLSHIT!  Making an active decision to choose nothing, rather than settle, is the same thing as voting.  New IP doesn't automatically mean every new IP is good or interesting.

What I would like is really more balance between new IP and sequels, like something like a 50/50 ratio.  Right now it's like 90% sequels.

[Adrock]

Some people like sequels and Nintendo isn't the only company making them. Sony is probably worse than Nintendo in that regard. It only doesn't seem that way because their IPs are newer. Seriously, there were like 8 God of War releases in like 6 years. Even if you don't count the collections, that's still 6 titles in as many years.

I don't think there's anything wrong with releasing sequels as long as they're still good games. Feel free to disagree. Like many others, I'm going to keep giving Nintendo money as long as they keep making good games. Granted, I would like to see some new IPs too but I haven't hated too many Nintendo games. Until that changes, they're going to continue getting my money.

[Spak-Spang]

The 3D polygon models are used because it is easier and cheaper to make a game with them.  It is easy to add new textures to existing models and add effects to make the game look nicer. 

We knew Nintendo was doing this for some time, as Nintendo set up artists that were just making 3D models of their characters to be used in games.  I think this was mostly done for the Mario series of games...Party, and New Super Mario games. 

Although I don't like it...it makes sense.  I personally don't understand why they won't just use Cell shading to make these 3D models look like HD sprites. 

That would be a fair compromise. I understand the reason for the polygons, doesn't mean I have to like them though. The way Mario games sell, Nintendo could afford to put a little more resources into the games. One thing that bothers me about NIntendo lately, especially with the Mario games, is that they seem to constantly cheap out and get lazy with them, specifically the NSMB series.


Also in regards to Nintendo owning properties, they own Xenoblade since they own Monolith Soft.

Fair, but the main Mario games DO get those extra resources.  The Mario Galaxies and Mario Karts always get new resources used.  It is the minor Mario games...the Mario Tennis, Mario Party franchises that tend to use those polygon pre-made models...which is honestly completely ok with me.

[GoldenPhoenix]

The 3D polygon models are used because it is easier and cheaper to make a game with them.  It is easy to add new textures to existing models and add effects to make the game look nicer. 

We knew Nintendo was doing this for some time, as Nintendo set up artists that were just making 3D models of their characters to be used in games.  I think this was mostly done for the Mario series of games...Party, and New Super Mario games. 

Although I don't like it...it makes sense.  I personally don't understand why they won't just use Cell shading to make these 3D models look like HD sprites. 

That would be a fair compromise. I understand the reason for the polygons, doesn't mean I have to like them though. The way Mario games sell, Nintendo could afford to put a little more resources into the games. One thing that bothers me about NIntendo lately, especially with the Mario games, is that they seem to constantly cheap out and get lazy with them, specifically the NSMB series.


Also in regards to Nintendo owning properties, they own Xenoblade since they own Monolith Soft.

Fair, but the main Mario games DO get those extra resources.  The Mario Galaxies and Mario Karts always get new resources used.  It is the minor Mario games...the Mario Tennis, Mario Party franchises that tend to use those polygon pre-made models...which is honestly completely ok with me.

I dunno, the NSMB games are pretty major and seem to have corners cut often.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Project CARS





anyone notice anything about the car in the pic?

[oohhboy]

Had me wondering on a momentary glance.