Topic: HAY LETS TALK ABOUT PIRACY IN HERE

[UncleBob]

words words words...

Your rants about DRM, lawsuits, etc., etc... all sound good - but how do those come into play when, say, NAPSTER was first starting up?  There was virtually no DRM on music CDs and no lawsuits for illegally downloading software.  Yet people still did it, in pretty decent numbers.

All of that sounds good, but, frankly, has very little to do with why people pirate.  They do so because, frankly, they are to self-centered and self-important to give two craps about anyone but themselves.  They see something, they want it, they take it.  And don't get in their way.  *me, me, me* - like the selfish brat on Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.  "I want it and I want it now!"  Justify it however you want - and try to make yourself feel better in the process, it don't make a bit of difference to me.  But you're taking something from someone else without their permission, without compensation and without *ANY* legal or moral grounds to do so.  That's stealing by any reasonable definition of the word.

[ShyGuy]

Deputy, it's time for some sentencing. What qualifies as a hanging offense in these parts?

[KDR_11k]

Guys, quit whining, the only reason the PS3 really got hacked was "it's there", possibly with a side of "it doesn't run Linux". Hackers will hack ANYTHING if they can and the same goes for installing Linux. Just because it makes no sense doesn't mean they won't do it. Who NEEDS Linux on a black and white Game Boy? Nobody but the Linux crowd will install Linux on ANYTHING that doesn't run away fast enough. Remember the joke about installing Linux on a dead badger? That's the mentality we're looking at here.

[oohhboy]

If you haven't figured it out already, I was describing a new form of economics. It's called post-scarcity. David Wong the author of the article describes it in a far more plain and amusing language than I ever could. It is a new form of economy we will all have to deal with now and more reasonable on both sides we are, the better the outcome. So take your "It's stealing" stick and shove it, it's still not helping.

As I see it, if you can convince enough people they are not paying for the game you are playing now, but more as an investment to see more games like it in the future it will help people understand while any given copy is worthless, there is that initial cost involved that needs to be covered. However companies must also change with how the economy works and they are in the same boat as their customers, therefore must work with them so everyone is better off. Change is here, deal with it.

[UncleBob]

Again, that sounds good, but people aren't going to be convinced that purchasing a game (or other media) is an "investment".  They're going to assume that everyone else is going to buy the game because piracy isn't that big of a deal, it doesn't hurt anyone, they wouldn't have bought the game anyway so it's not a lost sale, etc., etc...  They're going to make excuses as to why it is okay for them to take what they want, when they want, and damn anyone who says differently.  Sound like anyone you know?

[oohhboy]

This is all new economics and if the best minds on the planet hasn't figured out a solution yet, what are the chances either you or I have?

Things like the humble bundle, open source and steam are working experiments looking to solve this issue through different approaches. I don't believe any one method is an acceptable answer, but in combination and with other yet to be discovered ideas will lead to something better for everyone. Or just maybe there is no market solution and the future doesn't lie in American style capitalism, but a hybrid of many ideas? I don't know, I don't have a crystal ball.

This is a form of market failure like common goods and that we resolve that for most part through a combination of education, enforcement, reforms and study. Yeah, we still have individuals and companies that take too many fish, pollute for a variety of reason, both legal and illegal through different methods. The free rider issue will never be fully negated, we just take that into account and live with it by mitigating as much of the damage we can.

So yeah, thanks for telling us that there are assholes out there and we should look out for them. Great help. I bet you hate the idea of food stamps or food parcels because "Oh no, someone is going to abuse the system so we must shut it down so no one can abuse it!" or make it so difficult to qualify it doesn't help anyone? WELFARE QUEENS!!!

Your continued pessimism is worthless and is less than productive. It's an example of Parkinson's Law of Triviality. You understand stealing(Your not going to like this), therefore you focus on it like your life depends on it, regardless of the bigger issue at hand in this case is post scarcity that should super-seed that minor and incorrect assumption that piracy (There is an entire paragraph on theft there and you won't like it even more) is theft when in fact it's closer to a free rider issue. Nice to know that the useful power plant will never be built because you're too busy bitching about the bike shed.

[SixthAngel]

Its especially funny because I don't think Morari realizes the stupidity of his post. Not being able to copy someone else's work is "stifling creativity"? WTF?? Creativity isn't creativity unless its original.

Not copying someone else's work. Building from it, interpreting it. Just like Disney has done with every old fairy tale they've made films of. Nothing is original, and creativity does not necessarily rely upon it. Everything has a basis somewhere... that's how history works.

Current public domain laws stifle creativity far more than that.  By not releasing things into the public domain you actually reward companies like Disney for no longer being creative .  The laws were designed to increase creativity by letting people who create things actually make money but they now have become a way for people who had nothing to do with the actual creation to suck up money by using something established while having the law to push out the competition.
It also stifles creativity  because it gives this corporation a recognizable name that they can always use to effectively suck all the air out of the room when someone introduces a new project/character. If somebody starts to release a character Disney sees as a possible threat they can simply announce a mouse comeback and suddenly the upstarts get no attention.  This is fine when you just make something and are fighting off immitators, but once the creator has been dead for 56 years its just a way to use your unfair advantage (that you gained by not creating anything) and the incredible nostalgia that can only come from something so old to bludgeon the competition into submission.

A sane IP law is incredibly valuable, too bad the current law isn't sane.

can you imagine 70 years from now Mario going public domain? That would **** up Nintendo's ****.

In 70 years everyone who currently works at Nintendo will be be dead.  Their children will be dead or retired and their grandchildren have a good chance of being retired.  The company in 70 years will have absolutely no relation to the current company outside of the name.  It will be a bunch of people who had nothing to do with creating Mario stuck on him like a lamprey trying to suck out everything they can because they own him.

[Morari]

words words words...

Your rants about DRM, lawsuits, etc., etc... all sound good - but how do those come into play when, say, NAPSTER was first starting up?  There was virtually no DRM on music CDs and no lawsuits for illegally downloading software.  Yet people still did it, in pretty decent numbers.

Words words words, aye? That's awfully presumptuous of you. That's exactly the kind of smug attitude that would come from someone defending current copyright laws to the death. Of course, I guess you're happy in your ignorance and would rather ignore insightful, articulate statements than have to possibly rethink your stance on some things. Typical.

Napster exploded because music CDs were (and still are to some extent) ridiculously priced and had no alternative. The music industry was slow to adapt and still prefers suing their fans to actually changing with the times. Nowadays there are plenty of options, and most people are more than happy to purchase singles through iTunes. See? That's the market at work. Of course, that market still has a ways to go due to lingering dinosaurs who demand unreasonable agreements from "their" work.

But you're taking something from someone else without their permission, without compensation and without *ANY* legal or moral grounds to do so.  That's stealing by any reasonable definition of the word.

Can you please pull your head out of your ass for just one moment? It's hard to have a discussion with someone that can't even get the basis of the topic correct. Copyright infringement is wrong, but it is not stealing. You're not "taking" anything, because the original person still retains their copy. No one has been deprived of anything, except for possible compensation for the original work. You're not buying or stealing a game, you're paying for or not paying for the original effort that went toward making it. Now, ridiculous as it is, you'll find that there are much stiffer penalties for copyright infringement than there is for theft. If you steal a CD from Wal-Mart, the local police will come and fine you, perhaps send you to jail for a little bit of time. If however you download that same CD, the record industries will bride the federal government to send the FBI after you, financially ruining your life with overzealous fines, and sending you to prison. Fair? Hardly. Welcome to a world where corporations rule, because people like you blindly defend them.

[King of Twitch]

I think I understand now.

[broodwars]

It also stifles creativity  because it gives this corporation a recognizable name that they can always use to effectively suck all the air out of the room when someone introduces a new project/character. If somebody starts to release a character Disney sees as a possible threat they can simply announce a mouse comeback and suddenly the upstarts get no attention.

If new animation characters are so weak and toothless that they are upstaged and thrown into obscurity by something as simple as Disney announcing Mickey in a new product, they deserve to be forgotten because they weren't memorable to begin with.  That's called competition, and they lost in the market of ideas.  It's like saying that Nintendo should no longer be able to release Mario games because the release of a new one sucks all the air out of the marketplace so a new Ratchet & Clank game can't find an audience.
 
I'm noticing a distinct lack of respect for property rights in this thread by a few posters, and even less respect for basic decorum from one in particular.  It makes me very sad, and especially makes me wonder whose dog these "corporations" shot, ran over, and then burned alive to deserve this kind of seething level of hatred.

[Morari]

I'm noticing a distinct lack of respect for property rights in this thread by a few posters, and even less respect for basic decorum from one in particular.  It makes me very sad, and especially makes me wonder whose dog these "corporations" shot, ran over, and then burned alive to deserve this kind of seething level of hatred.

The dog that the corporations ran over is called America.

[broodwars]

I'm noticing a distinct lack of respect for property rights in this thread by a few posters, and even less respect for basic decorum from one in particular.  It makes me very sad, and especially makes me wonder whose dog these "corporations" shot, ran over, and then burned alive to deserve this kind of seething level of hatred.

The dog that the corporations ran over is called America.

 

[ThePerm]

i think kdr hit the nail on the head with his statement.  "It exists, thus it is hacked." Thats like some Descartes stuff there.

Sum ergo Hack, or does that mean I am therefore I am hacked!! Existential nightmare!

[Morari]

I wish Morari would be banned. I'm sick of him and his political crap.

I'm sick of ignorant people. Go kill yourself.

[broodwars]

I wish Morari would be banned. I'm sick of him and his political crap.

I'm sick of ignorant people. Go kill yourself.

Ok, you've officially crossed the line.  I'm with Chozo.

[TJ Spyke]

Me to, that is way beyond acceptable.

[vudu]

DAMN IT WHY ARE YOU GUYS MAKING ME DO WORK