Author Topic: HAY LETS TALK ABOUT PIRACY IN HERE (Read 23808 times)

Shorty McNostril · « **Reply #100 on:** January 03, 2011, 10:33:06 PM »

Sorry for the double post, but think about it TJ. Show some empathy and put yourself in a situation where you dropped hundreds of dollars on a PS3,planning to take advantage of the OtherOS feature. (Especially if it was your primary reason for purchase). A few months later Sony up and says, "Sorry fellas, but we a disabling that feature. To all you who bought the PS3 for that reason, here is my middle finger"

How would you feel?

Sure, as you pointed out they legally have the right to do as they please. But was it really the right thing to do?

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #101 on:** January 03, 2011, 10:48:03 PM »

I would be upset, but if I really wanted it I could have just avoided the update (I know some people online who bought a second PS3 for this reason). I agree others had a right to be upset too, I am just not convinced that any of this outcry was because of it. I sure as heck don't think it had any impact on people trying to hack the system, they would have continued to do so even with OtherOS still on it.

Chozo, way to pick certain parts of my post only. First, I said in general I am against modding (and I even said why); not against it all the time. Second, people can change their minds over time; do you feel the same way about everything as you always have? The fact that I had a modded PSP was why I never connected it to PSN when I had the system.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #102 on:** January 03, 2011, 10:51:47 PM »

Well, okay then. But that said, I really don't think you should be so hard on other modders and be wishing for their stuff to get bricked. I also don't think you should be saying all modders are pirates because if you were a modder and you didn't pirate then why couldn't others be like that too? You were being hateful and wishing harm to people who were only doing something you had done yourself.

Shorty McNostril · « **Reply #103 on:** January 03, 2011, 10:54:43 PM »

So we have an ultimatum?

Option 1: Disable system updates, thereby missing out on any new features, updates and potentially a few hundred thousand more things (I have never used a PS3 and am completely unfamiliar with the online service so please forgive any discrepancies I may mention by mistake)

Option 2: Allow the update and miss out on the Other OS feature.

Option 3: Buy a second PS3, one for updating, the other for Linux.

Does this sound like a fair decision to be forced to make?

Edit: Typos.

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #104 on:** January 03, 2011, 11:00:11 PM »

I know not all modders are pirates, but I think it's a safe bet that more than half (probably way more) of modders are indeed pirates. I know Wii has some good homebrew software, I even enjoyed some of them. Maybe my words was harsher than they could have been, but people were acting like removing OtherOS justifies hacking the system or that pirates make up only a small percentage of modders.

As for bricking, maybe I should refine my statement and say that Sony should find a way to brick just systems with copyrighted software on it that isn't supposed to be on it.

Shorty, I was just pointing out that there are options out there for people who wanted it.

Shorty McNostril · « **Reply #105 on:** January 03, 2011, 11:03:31 PM »

Quote

Shorty, I was just pointing out that there are options out there for people who wanted it.

I realize that. But the point I am in turn trying to make is that none of them are viable. You do one thing, you miss out on a heap of other things. Or you have to drop another $500 on a new PS3.

BranDonk Kong · « **Reply #106 on:** January 04, 2011, 12:52:17 AM »

Pirates are often kind of paranoid...

ThePerm · « **Reply #107 on:** January 04, 2011, 12:56:35 AM »

ah pirates

http://www.tetrametrics.com/whattoexpect.jpg

BranDonk Kong · « **Reply #108 on:** January 04, 2011, 09:30:24 AM »

Quote from: TJ Spyke on January 03, 2011, 10:48:03 PM

I would be upset, but if I really wanted it I could have just avoided the update (I know some people online who bought a second PS3 for this reason). I agree others had a right to be upset too, I am just not convinced that any of this outcry was because of it. I sure as heck don't think it had any impact on people trying to hack the system, they would have continued to do so even with OtherOS still on it.

Ok, now we should either avoid updates (which means you can't play any game that came out after they started included 3.21 firmware on games), or buy another console...

Quote

Chozo, way to pick certain parts of my post only. First, I said in general I am against modding (and I even said why); not against it all the time. Second, people can change their minds over time; do you feel the same way about everything as you always have? The fact that I had a modded PSP was why I never connected it to PSN when I had the system.

...it seems that against modding "in general" means that it's okay for you to do it, but nobody else can, and no one else has a "legitimate" reason like you do...

Quote from: TJ Spyke on January 03, 2011, 10:11:01 PM

For the record, I do NOT pirate games and the reason I am against modding in general is because sadly most people will use it to pirate games or do very shady/borderline illegal stuff (like ripping a game and then returning it). If there was a way to let people mod a system without being able to put copyrighted games on it, I would support it. That is why I am so against it, whether I modded in the past or not doesn't matter. I think it's fine, for example, to want to be able to play DVDs on your Wii since the ability is there and they promised it 4 years ago.

...and your reason to mod the Wii (as has been pointed out) was to enable a feature that it never had - but modding the PS3 to re-install a feature that was promised, included, and then taken away (and also to be able to play homebrew, just like you do on the Wii) is wrong. I'd like to point out that the PS3 was hacked by the same people that hacked the Wii (and allowed DVD playback), so you're "ulterior motive" theory seems to be either A. complete bullshit, or B. further proof that you're a hypocrite. I'd also like to point out that Reggie never promised that the Wii that you bought would *ever* play DVDs, he mentioned that there will be a version that does...in the future...in some markets. There's still time for Nintendo to release a DVD-enabled Wii in China or Korea (I don't think it'll ever happen either), but your justification is bullshit - especially since by enabling DVD playback, you're not supporting the people that Nintendo needs to license DVD playback from. Linux is free...no royalties. If you have the audacity to suggest that people either avoid updates (again, which means no new games), or buy another PS3, then you certainly could go buy a cheap-ass DVD player. You also never mentioned why you modded your PSP (to play pirated games, I imagine), but that leads me to this...

PSP keys found inside the PS3, PSP now 100% unlocked too

Way to go Sony. Someone's gonna get fired over this ****. It was bad enough with the PSP already, but at least they were making progress with the security.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #109 on:** January 04, 2011, 12:45:04 PM »

Boy did this thread blow up while I was away. The way I see it is like this.

Pirating games is stealing and is thus wrong. Sony disabling a feature on products people already owned is also wrong. I'm not even looking into laws here, this is just simple, rational "golden rule" kind of stuff.

Hacking a PS3 to access the feature that Sony disabled is not wrong and has no ill intentions. Regarding morals or ethics or whatever term you want to use, intent makes all the difference. There is no intention in such an action to hurt Sony. The intention is merely to get back what was taken away. I don't think you're a bad person if you steal back what was stolen from you. Now if you steal something extra as "interest", well, now things are open to discussion.

There is however a moral dilemma in hacking the PS3. By revealing the hack publicly, which would be for the benefit of others who wish to re-enable Linux support, the hack is open to pirates. You broke into someone's house to steal back what they took from you but left the door unlocked so that theives with bad intentions could raid the place. Even if you think that Sony had it coming (I personally don't) they are not the only ones affected. All of the third parties, who are completely innocent of the disabled Other OS feature, also suffer.

The way I'm thinking is that hacking a console should be a private matter. One should be free to do it if they know how and their intentions are honest. But it is irresponsible to reveal these vulnerabilities publicly where pirates can take advantage.

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #110 on:** January 04, 2011, 12:56:29 PM »

Very well said Ian.

oohhboy · « **Reply #111 on:** January 04, 2011, 01:06:08 PM »

One problem Ian. None of this has anything to do with stealing.

Edit: rubbish grammer

ThePerm · « **Reply #112 on:** January 04, 2011, 01:10:14 PM »

depending on the society different values are placed on the idea of intellectual property, and property ownership in general. The thing is that things don't get made as well without it. I watched a few East German films and they were really goofy. Some of them were pretty good though.

broodwars · « **Reply #113 on:** January 04, 2011, 01:13:38 PM »

Quote from: Ian Sane on January 04, 2011, 12:45:04 PM

There is however a moral dilemma in hacking the PS3. By revealing the hack publicly, which would be for the benefit of others who wish to re-enable Linux support, the hack is open to pirates. You broke into someone's house to steal back what they took from you but left the door unlocked so that theives with bad intentions could raid the place. Even if you think that Sony had it coming (I personally don't) they are not the only ones affected. All of the third parties, who are completely innocent of the disabled Other OS feature, also suffer.

The way I'm thinking is that hacking a console should be a private matter. One should be free to do it if they know how and their intentions are honest. But it is irresponsible to reveal these vulnerabilities publicly where pirates can take advantage.

That's really the only big problem I ever had with this: that this person (or persons) not only hacked their PS3 to re-enable Linux support, but that they then turned around and released this hack to the internet for everyone who could want to hack the system regardless of reason. Now we have root keys roaming around the internet, and what little security the PSP still had is gone now as well. That's two systems now completely open to pirates because someone wanted an ego trip (and, personally, I think it takes quite a bit of nerve to ask the Big 3 for a job after you just very publicly aided in opening up massive piracy on one console and making it worse on a handheld). If the hackers had kept this to themselves, that would have been fine by me. But they just threw all that information out there where anyone can do pretty much anything with it.

To expand upon your analogy, Ian, it's like breaking into someone's house to take back something you believe you legally owned (but don't), leaving the door unlocked, and then on your way home leaving a trail of signs directing anyone there interested in entering the house.

oohhboy · « **Reply #114 on:** January 04, 2011, 01:47:18 PM »

Man there are a couple of gits around here. This is like watching NASCAR, **** moving around in a circle, while everyone watches, waiting for someone to crash since they managed to make high speed motor sport one of the most things since the invention of watching paint dry.

Unintended consequences and abuse come from any and all forms of knowledge and technology no matter how inconsequential or harmless it maybe. You might as well ask humanity to un-invent the stick as I am sure it has caused massive harm from all the skulls they caved in.

Go take your "You wouldn't steal a car" cool aid elsewhere, we are already stocked up on crazy.

MaryJane · « **Reply #115 on:** January 04, 2011, 02:05:04 PM »

While I mostly agree with your argument, I highly disagree with you calling people who disagree with you gits. Their arguments are mainly ones of usage; yes a stick can cave in a skull, but there are better ways to use it.

ThePerm · « **Reply #116 on:** January 04, 2011, 02:16:52 PM »

*facepalm

BranDonk Kong · « **Reply #117 on:** January 04, 2011, 02:17:05 PM »

I don't think it's too much for George Hotz to ask Sony (or Nintendo or Microsoft) for a job - corporations like these hire hackers all the time. If there's anyone you want on "your side" it's the person that's smarter than everyone else on "your side." That would probably be the best thing to ever happen for any of the big 3 companies.

noname2200 · « **Reply #118 on:** January 04, 2011, 02:27:24 PM »

Quote from: MaryJane on January 04, 2011, 02:05:04 PM

yes a stick can cave in a skull, but there are better ways to use it.

Nonsense. Caving in skulls is the highest form of use any object can aspire to.

ThePerm · « **Reply #119 on:** January 04, 2011, 02:29:07 PM »

for a misnathrope

oh my look at this, a new page has dawned, now to change the tides

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #120 on:** January 04, 2011, 02:31:05 PM »

Quote from: Brandogg on January 04, 2011, 02:17:05 PM

I don't think it's too much for George Hotz to ask Sony (or Nintendo or Microsoft) for a job - corporations like these hire hackers all the time. If there's anyone you want on "your side" it's the person that's smarter than everyone else on "your side." That would probably be the best thing to ever happen for any of the big 3 companies.

If he had reported it just to Sony, myabe I could agree. The fact that he released the info to the public negates that though. Companies like Google have hired people that found lots of exploits in the software, but do you think they would have done so if they released the info first and then told Google?

Morari · « **Reply #121 on:** January 04, 2011, 02:40:18 PM »

Sony wouldn't have done anything about it had it been brought to their attention. Companies like to maintain security through obscurity because it's cheap. Of course, there are plenty of white hats out there that test systems specifically to help find and report vulnerabilities. What good would that have done the community though?

Stogi · « **Reply #122 on:** January 04, 2011, 03:19:34 PM »

The only reason I poked my head in here was to give you all a common enemy and thus the ability to find common ground, ending this cyclical bantering.

No matter what you think is wrong or right, the world is the way it is. Just lay this beaten horse to rest.

ThePerm · « **Reply #123 on:** January 04, 2011, 04:03:04 PM »

why cant it be a beaten camel, or llama? Never mind, that would just be sad.

ShyGuy · « **Reply #124 on:** January 04, 2011, 04:06:26 PM »

I pirate Nintendo World Report and their products. You should checkout the podcast I setup in China, it's just clips of the various RFN podcasts badly edited together.

I also impersonate Stogi on other message boards for fun and piracy

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Author Topic: HAY LETS TALK ABOUT PIRACY IN HERE (Read 23808 times)