Author Topic: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face  (Read 44522 times)

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Offline Mario

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #100 on: September 03, 2008, 04:38:03 AM »
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I still think they'll be tech leaders though...it's their niche, like Nintendo's niche is low-priced and mass-market.
Mass market is a niche? LOL. Also isn't this the first time in history the Sony platform has been "tech leader"? How is that a trend?

Offline Arbok

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #101 on: September 04, 2008, 01:13:07 AM »
Mass market is a niche? LOL. Also isn't this the first time in history the Sony platform has been "tech leader"? How is that a trend?

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Offline Infernal Monkey

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #102 on: September 04, 2008, 07:58:31 AM »
Of course this is a Nintendo driven website, so the preference of most readers of the site is Nintendo.

Ahahahaha

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #103 on: September 04, 2008, 05:38:34 PM »
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I still think they'll be tech leaders though...it's their niche, like Nintendo's niche is low-priced and mass-market.
Mass market is a niche? LOL. Also isn't this the first time in history the Sony platform has been "tech leader"? How is that a trend?

I mean the future.  I think Nintendo will continue its current "sacrifice power for price" approach, while Sony will have better tech, but eschew the needless bells and whistles that plagued the PS3's early years.  I think PS4 will be more stripped-down in that department.  Sony won't out-Nintendo Nintendo, so they'll need better technology and an appeal to gamers with "higher-end" audio/video setups as their differentiator.

"Niche" was probably the wrong word..."specialty" is probably better.  Everybody's ultimately aiming for the mass market, but at this point it's pretty obvious that Nintendo is catering to that market almost exclusively.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #104 on: September 04, 2008, 07:36:44 PM »
Everybody's ultimately aiming for the mass market, but at this point it's pretty obvious that Nintendo is catering to that market almost exclusively.

Heh. I love the English language. Nintendo is exclusively catering to the most people?
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #105 on: September 04, 2008, 07:41:02 PM »
A business strategy like that is unheard of!
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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #106 on: September 04, 2008, 08:38:50 PM »
OK, Nintendo is catering to 5-Year-Olds, Soccer Moms, and Grandmas.  Sony is catering to adult gamers with discerning tastes, like myself.

 ;D

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Offline Halbred

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #107 on: September 04, 2008, 08:40:17 PM »
Nail on the head! :-D
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #108 on: September 04, 2008, 08:49:20 PM »
And with your new understanding, there's no confusion as to why PS3 is failing.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #109 on: September 04, 2008, 09:52:39 PM »
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I did that in one thread and I admitted it, but if you insist on trolling me for eternity then knock yourself out.

Simply stating what you said before and comparing it to what you say now is not "trolling" you.  Trolling is jumping up and saying the console of choice for the majority of the forum is for kids, soccer moms, and "grandpas" and the one you seem to like better is for "discerning adults."  You just keep getting into threads where your words come back to bite.

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I wasn't talking about load times.  I was talking about the effect that cartridges had on third-party relations, causing developers to bail only AFTER people had already bought the console.  Blu-Ray driving up the cost of the PS3 prevented people from buying it, but  they didn't spend any money.  The fact that the N64 used cartridges caused companies like EA to bail in the middle of the console's life cycle, essentially pulling the rug out from under gamers that assumed the console would have an acceptable amount of third-party support.

The cartridges had little to do with third party relations.  Cart vs. CD was just a convenient reason that was palatable to the burgeoning internet at the time.  It was actually the royalty fees AND the fact that the PS1 had a very hefty lead on the N64 by the time it released.    Believe me, market leadership will start meaning a whole lot in the near future.

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I don't think it applies because those DS cartridges likely cost a heck of a lot less to create in 2008 than the N64 cartridges did in 1996.  I'm sure that Nintendo has revised their royalty structure due to the N64 debacle, as well.  And I doubt that PS1 were much cheaper to develop than N64 games, either.

Here's where you actually contradict yourself.  Cart vs. CD SHOULD be working here.  But isn't.  It is actually the simple fact that the DS is the market leader by a wide margin and this is coupled with the PSP's horrible game ratio, meaning people are buying PSP's and not buying games, which is probably not conducive to winning over third party support.  And PS1 games were certainly cheaper to make because the graphical demands were very low.  While the N64 was pushing boundaries, the PS1 stood behind it every step of the way looking like a fossil.  Analysts expected that any day now the N64 would win because of graphical graphics.  Didn't happen, and the PS1 zoomed ahead.

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Yeah, as a matter of fact I do know what I'm saying.  I'm saying not to put Nintendo a pedestal, because they got into the industry for the same reasons that Sony and Microsoft did, and can exit the same way you claim Sony and Microsoft can.  If there's one thing that's permanent in the video game industry, it's impermanence.  At one time Atari was just like Nintendo - on top of the world and insurmountable.  Now they're all but gone.

Yes, Nintendo is in to make the money.  So is MS and Sony.  However the makeup of the companies is what sets them apart.  The only thing Nintendo does is make games, it's mostly all they've ever done, ever.  Their company as a whole is dwarfed by Sony and MS's (although they probably are bigger than their game divisions.)  Nobody has been put up on a pedestal by simply stating the facts about the companies and the likelihood of them pulling out, of which Nintendo's is the least because of their continued profitability even in tough times and cash-flushed-ness, and Sony and MS's is greater, because of their current profit problems and missed goals, no matter what magazine reviewers say about the subjective quality of their games nor the passion of the people involved on the game side.

And each of the companies that left the hardware industry left doing SMART AND INNOVATIVE THINGS, not many were that "inept."  No, not even Sega.  The Dreamcast was the first console with a very robust online service (and DLC.)  They attempted to take Madden head-on, which was a smart move because at the time Madden was weak.  All of the "ineptitude" was attributed AFTER they left.  And look how it will apply to this generation.  Blu-Ray (while good for Sony until another Disc Format comes out) drove the price of the PS3 up greatly.  They tried aping Nintendo with the Sixaxis, discontinued that, re-issuing the rumble controller.  They keep screwing around with the basic model of the PS3, which greatly confuses the marketplace (MS for this too).  These will all be considered "inept" should Sony continue to flail about and lose another billion.

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OK, Nintendo is catering to 5-Year-Olds, Soccer Moms, and Grandmas.  Sony is catering to adult gamers with discerning tastes, like myself.

I know this was a joke, but I'll bet ya that the Wii will end up with the most "discerning adults" by the end of it.  For example, the PSP is obviously catering to the 18-29 male demographic, but they don't have the most males 18-29.  DS does.  The DS went through such a "identity crisis" of catering to "girls and grandpas" (with NWR piling on) and survived and is the darling of industry, the REAL Moneymaker, and will soon the best console ever released, just by the sheer number of new, different, and/or awesome titles (and MOUNDS and MOUNDS of shovelware timid third parties released because they were so sure the graphically superior PSP would win) that came out for it, no matter what demographic it's more-meaningful E3 shows were aimed at (hint: Nintendogs was the major theme for the DS in 2005.  And Electroplankton.  And everything else got a blurb)
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #110 on: September 04, 2008, 10:48:20 PM »
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OK, Nintendo is catering to 5-Year-Olds, Soccer Moms, and Grandmas.  Sony is catering to adult gamers with discerning tastes, like myself.

I know this was a joke, but I'll bet ya that the Wii will end up with the most "discerning adults" by the end of it.  For example, the PSP is obviously catering to the 18-29 male demographic, but they don't have the most males 18-29.  DS does.  The DS went through such a "identity crisis" of catering to "girls and grandpas" (with NWR piling on) and survived and is the darling of industry, the REAL Moneymaker, and will soon the best console ever released, just by the sheer number of new, different, and/or awesome titles (and MOUNDS and MOUNDS of shovelware timid third parties released because they were so sure the graphically superior PSP would win) that came out for it, no matter what demographic it's more-meaningful E3 shows were aimed at (hint: Nintendogs was the major theme for the DS in 2005.  And Electroplankton.  And everything else got a blurb)

It's ironic and amazing at the same time, ain't it?
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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #111 on: September 05, 2008, 11:17:12 AM »
I think that the DS is moving over to "girls and grandpas" right now, what with Nintendo stating that something like 46% of DS users are now female.  I never associated the "Nintendogs period" with a specific  aim at females.  If anything, I think that game was undermarketed, and wasn't targeted at females enough.  When I saw the commercial with Carrie Underwood playing Nintendogs on her DS, I wondered what took Nintendo so long.

What I've always liked about the DS is that it's always had a healthy quantity of games to choose from across all genres (ever since Christmas 2005, of course).  With the DS there's never been a point at which I've said, "There are no games that interest me on this platform".  There's always something to look forward to on the DS in terms of my tastes, whether it's Bangai-O Spirits, KORG DS-10, Moon, or Tecmo Bowl.  On Wii I honestly can't name one announced game that I even care about...MadWorld intrigues me, but like No More Heroes, if I never played it I wouldn't feel like I missed out.

Maybe at some point Wii will start to get the high-quality niche titles that I crave, but I'm skeptical.  I haven't seen any indication of that happening on WiiWare, and I can't see developers taking a chance on making something really obscure on Wii when they could just as easily make money with another Carnival Games.  I hope to God that isn't the case, but again, I'm skeptical.
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Offline NWR_Neal

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #112 on: September 05, 2008, 11:43:42 AM »
OK, Nintendo is catering to 5-Year-Olds, Soccer Moms, and Grandmas.  Sony is catering to adult gamers with discerning tastes, like myself.

 ;D



Then why do I play my Wii more than my 360? Why do I know countless people my age, younger, and older that are all raving about the Wii....

What the hell am I saying? There's a reason why any multiplatform title I want I get for Xbox 360 and it is not because of the achievements. Silks, you might have a bad way of saying this, but your argument holds some truth.
Most of the people that rave about the Wii are people buying only Wii Sports, or getting Carnival Games, or even that freaking EA Playground game.
That doesn't mean that I hate the Wii though. I love the system and I do get a lot of play from it and I'm looking forward to close to 10 games this fall (I think, I kind of threw out a random number). I guess maybe the best part about the Wii is that there is a lot of good local multiplayer whether it be Wii Sports, Warioware or Brawl. Besides Rock Band, there's not a game on 360 that I own that has great local multiplayer.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #113 on: September 05, 2008, 11:52:41 AM »
"Then why do I play my Wii more than my 360?"

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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #114 on: September 05, 2008, 11:59:58 AM »
True story: my company is having a "Wii Tournament" next week.  I was going to reply to the announcement email to ask what game they were going to use, since it wasn't mentioned.  But then I realized how silly that question would be; of course they were going to use Wii Sports.  Because, to the SUPER casual audience, that's really the only game of note for the Wii.  Speaks to how good that game really is.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #115 on: September 05, 2008, 04:30:49 PM »
What I've always liked about the DS is that it's always had a healthy quantity of games to choose from across all genres (ever since Christmas 2005, of course).  With the DS there's never been a point at which I've said, "There are no games that interest me on this platform".  There's always something to look forward to on the DS in terms of my tastes, whether it's Bangai-O Spirits, KORG DS-10, Moon, or Tecmo Bowl.  On Wii I honestly can't name one announced game that I even care about...MadWorld intrigues me, but like No More Heroes, if I never played it I wouldn't feel like I missed out.

While I do believe that the DS does prove a useful model for considering how the Wii will grow in the future, I also acknowledge that their circumstances are not the same: the Wii is in a different space with more competition. Still, I think back to the early days of DS (which was a heck of a drought, lemme tell you) and no matter how much I adored launch games Sprung and Pac-Pix, my system did NOT get regular play until late 2006. I propose that just like you don't see any games of striking interest on the Wii in the near future, neither did I see many such titles for the DS for an entire TWO YEARS.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #116 on: September 05, 2008, 04:32:39 PM »
Yep, the DS had a horrible start.

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #117 on: September 05, 2008, 05:11:05 PM »
Well, with the DS you had a slew of big game announces around mid-2005.  I remember looking over a release list, seeing all of these awesome-looking games coming out, and thinking, "Holy crap, Christmas 2005 for the DS is going to be LOADED".  With Wii, I'm still waiting for that to happen...or maybe it already did, between August 2007-May 2008.
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Offline IceCold

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #118 on: September 22, 2008, 05:54:51 PM »
Besides, I'd argue that the industry needs those blockbuster "event" games to draw attention to itself.

Whose attention? I sure don't see the MSM reporting on the new GoW, MGS, etc. I do see them report about low budget games like Wii Sports or Fit. You mean the gaming press? Why do you need their attention, there's nothing else they can cover anyway.

Exactly.

The whole "they invested so much" argument is silly, it's like claiming you shouldn't fold when half your money is in the pot. If you have to fold then fold, you may have lost half your money but you still have the rest, if you throw it at a pot with no realistic chance of winning then you're just losing even more.

Again, exactly. It's a sunk cost. KDR, winner of the NWR sensibility award.


Also, as for the topic at hand, I'm kind of in the same boat as vudu and ButteryPat. First off, I just don't have time to play games much. I'm more than occupied with the Wii and DS. But more importantly, I've given games on other systems a chance.. and I just haven't liked them much.

I guess I'm an atypical gamer in that I don't like RPGs at all, most FPS games bore me (Wii control helps a lot though!), and non-Nintendo action/adventure games (Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, God of War) just don't do it for me. So that basically eliminates the 360 and PS3 for me.

I'm interested in some stuff on other consoles of course (NHL 09, Too Human because of my ED love) but it isn't nearly enough to make me buy a system.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 06:03:49 PM by IceCold »
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #119 on: September 22, 2008, 06:00:43 PM »
SHINOBI'S BACK
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #120 on: September 23, 2008, 02:09:41 AM »
I guess I'm an atypical gamer in that I don't like RPGs at all, most FPS games bore me (Wii control helps a lot though!), and non-Nintendo action/adventure games (Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, God of War) just don't do it for me. So that basically eliminates the 360 and PS3 for me.

I'm interested in some stuff on other consoles of course (NHL 09, Too Human because of my ED love) but it isn't nearly enough to make me buy a system.

You make it sound like Ico, SotC and GoW are the only non-Nintendo action games out there (personally I'd avoid any classification beyond action for the beat'em up-platformer-shooter hybrids that almost all "platformer" games are now). There's a huge list containing loads of different styles.

Offline IceCold

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #121 on: September 23, 2008, 02:20:30 AM »
I was listing those as examples - I thought I added an "etc".

Still, I've played a lot of the "well-received" games on other systems, and most of them just aren't that interesting to me.
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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #122 on: January 25, 2011, 12:02:24 AM »
YOUR CRIMES DO NOT GO UNNOTICED, FORMER NINTENDO FAN STAFF

NEVER FORGET
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #123 on: February 03, 2011, 05:22:30 PM »
and you guys thought i bumped really old ****....

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Offline TGM

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Re: Fanboyism, or Cutting off Your Nose to Spite Your Face
« Reply #124 on: February 26, 2011, 10:48:47 PM »
Crud, I ran out of popcorn. I guess I'll post something to take my mind off of my hunger. I bet it'll be a philosophical rant about the truth behind the ugly truth behind the video game industry.


In the industry as we know it good games don't matter since the term "good" is almost completely subjective. Sales hardly matter either since success is fleeting. Just ask Atari or Sega. My own personal preference matters to me, most definitely, but to the industry as a whole I am but one consumer among countless. I understand why we discuss quality, sales, and personal preference. We want to know if our favorite developer or publisher is doing well, we want to defend our interests, and we want to know that we are not alone in our convictions. Plus it can be fun. Kevin Butler can deliver a nice speech about how we need to embrace the bigger picture, insinuating that there should not be divisions among gamers, but many of us look at the bigger picture, ignore or fail to embrace its flaws, and we're suddenly back to arguing. Human nature, as it seems.
But what really matters in the grand scheme of things? What really shapes the industry and pushes it forward? Vision. People involved in the video game industry tend to have it. A creator's vision makes or breaks a game, since the perception of the vision determines the game's legacy.
I don't believe that there are good or bad games, just strong or weak visions. A truly revolutionary vision can spawn a beloved franchise that contributes much to how video games are designed. A vision could also be too different, failing to resonate with most. Sales are not necessarily a great judge of vision, however. Wii Play's vision was accepted so greatly because it came with a Wii Remote. While it made money, sales are fleeting, and Wii Play's legacy, unless it resonates with someone who can carry the torch, will not last. Critical acclaim is not a judge of vision either. Subjectivity denies absolution.
The only judge is the individual gamer. The only thing that matters in the long run is a legacy. A vision can create a legacy. Gamers and future creators can support the legacy.


What does any of this have to do with fanboyism? This isn't about who is screwing you out of your money or which game is better or what you like. This is a struggle against the cold, hard truth that nothing is permanent (though it can last for quite some time) and each company wants to stay relevant and continue making an impact. This is about relevancy, and since each one of these corporations by universal nature cannot exist forever, they strive to make as much of a difference as possible. The only war here is the Big 3 tripping over each other. Accept that everyone has a different means of staying relevant, realize that each of the Big 3 have already become relevant, and for the love of God try to coexist like Kevin Butler told us to.
The cake has been a lie ever since Super Mario 64.