Topic: Killing Dragons and Stuff (Skyrim)

[Chozo Ghost]

All this talk of bugs is depressing. I really wanted the PC version of Skyrim and was considering asking for it for Christmas, but this kind of crap is inexcusable.

If you are getting the PC version you should be completely fine. You can fix any problems you might run into on the PC version by using the console and typing in the appropriate commands to reset things or whatever. This is only a problem if you are playing the game on PS3 or 360 because there is no console with which to fix these problems, but if you intend to play it on the PC you will be fine... so just go ahead and get it.

[broodwars]

Broodwars, there is an Elder Scrolls wiki and you may want to consult that whenever you get new items or whatever so you can find out if these things are needed or not. I guess you are probably close to being done with the game so it might not really matter, but here is the link anyway.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Skyrim

I've found this site extremely helpful when I was playing Oblivion. It is even better than any game guide you could buy, because unlike a game guide this is constantly being kept up to date, and unlike a game guide this wiki is completely free. You can also edit to it if you have anything new to add.

Yeah, I've been occasionally using that guide when the game is vague about certain quests.  I didn't think to look up the Thieves Guild Armor issue there until it had already happened, just because it didn't seem possible that something that trivial could screw up your game.  But hey, it's Bethesda.  Where there's a Will to screw up a game, there's a way.

The fact that people are recommending that players following internet guides to avoid running into game or quest-ending bugs is just a sad commentary on this whole situation.  If Bethesda ever fixes the Thieves Guild bug, I'll probably keep using that Wiki.

Speaking of which, IGN PS3 posted this Skyrim editorial today chastising Bethesda for releasing a "broken game" at launch.  There's some pretty inflammatory language in there, as well as reports of utter silence from Bethesda and Sony on the matter.  If I didn't know any better, I'd say IGN was attempting actual journalism for once.

[Chozo Ghost]

Broodwars, I edited that post just as you were replying to it.

[Morari]

All this talk of bugs is depressing. I really wanted the PC version of Skyrim and was considering asking for it for Christmas, but this kind of crap is inexcusable.

If you are getting the PC version you should be completely fine. You can fix any problems you might run into on the PC version by using the console and typing in the appropriate commands to reset things or whatever. This is only a problem if you are playing the game on PS3 or 360 because there is no console with which to fix these problems, but if you intend to play it on the PC you will be fine... so just go ahead and get it.

I was about to say the same. I didn't realize that the developer console was gutted from the PS360 version until after I had suggested it to Broodwars earlier in the thread. Too bad about that, as it would get you around just about every complaint listed here. Of course, I haven't had nearly the problems on the PC anyway, so it's kind of a moot point. I guess it's just another thing to put up their with superior controls. better graphics, and a modding community.

[broodwars]

Broodwars, I edited that post just as you were replying to it.

Reading what you posted in that edit, if I had known before the game came out that the PS3 version would be even worse technically than the PS3 versions of Fallout 3 and New Vegas, I would have gone with the 360 version.  But IGN comments in that article that Bethesda would not send sites PS3 copies of the game, so they had to buy their review copy at retail.  It didn't get the scrutiny it should have as a result.  All anyone actually said about the PS3 version when it came out was that it had better textures.  We didn't know until weeks later when the PS3 players finally hit the magic save file size that the game was completely broken.

But the die's been cast and I'm not starting the game over on a new system.  Besides, the bug that really irritates me right now with the Thieves Guild quest line is afflicting 360 owners as well.  That would have happened regardless.  I would just be seeing few crashes and less abysmal framerate issues in crowded areas.

[broodwars]

All this talk of bugs is depressing. I really wanted the PC version of Skyrim and was considering asking for it for Christmas, but this kind of crap is inexcusable.

If you are getting the PC version you should be completely fine. You can fix any problems you might run into on the PC version by using the console and typing in the appropriate commands to reset things or whatever. This is only a problem if you are playing the game on PS3 or 360 because there is no console with which to fix these problems, but if you intend to play it on the PC you will be fine... so just go ahead and get it.

I don't want to give Morari satisfaction for all his gloating, but the PC version really does seem to be the one to go with on this game.  I haven't heard any major problems with that version, and any of Bethesda's poor programming can easily be fixed by the community.  It is a good game when it's not being terrible to me, so by all means check it out on PC if you're interested.

[Chozo Ghost]

One thing Bethesda probably should have done differently with the PS360 versions is just have left the console in the game to allow players to reset problems themselves if necessary. I'm not sure why they took it out, but it might have been due to concerns about cheating with it, which is a valid concern, especially when trophies are involved. You would end up in a situation where 90% of the people with Platinum trophies didn't really deserve them. So maybe Bethesda ripped that feature out at Microsoft and Sony's behest.

[TJ Spyke]

Couldn't they have set something up where achievements/trophies were disable if you messed with it? That's what the smart developers do when it comes to cheat codes, they might put them in the game but set it up so if you use them then achievements are disabled.

[Morari]

I imagine the console was removed to "simplify" the experience, as opposed to prevent cheating. Certainly no one really cares about cheating in a singleplayer game?

[bustin98]

Micrososft puts the boot down on those who boost their gamerscore in any way other than expected game play. Sure, you can build a lego robot to push a button over and over, but that is just working the system. Access to the console would allow players to skip areas of the game altogether, or make certain achievments moot (collect 100,000 pieces of gold...).

[broodwars]

That 100,000 Gold trophy is pretty easy to get, though.  I already have it.  You can thoroughly abuse the system by just enchanting every weapon you get with the Banish trait, and it turns 8 gold items into 600-700 gold items easily.  A couple of days ago, I was easily making about 10,000 gold or more a dungeon just making repeat trips out to sell all the stuff I could carry once enchanted.

But yeah, it's scary how much Microsoft cares about the achievements in even single-player games.

[bustin98]

I'm still trying to figure out how not to be such a loser of a character. I just need better armor. And a weapon or two that deals a rediculous amount of damage.

[broodwars]

I'm still trying to figure out how not to be such a loser of a character. I just need better armor. And a weapon or two that deals a rediculous amount of damage.

I suggest devoting some points to Smithing, particularly the Light Armor path (the leftward path).  You can forge some more than acceptable armor and weapons fairly quickly, and Smithing isn't too hard to level-up as long as you just keep churning out Leather and Iron gear.

[Chozo Ghost]

I imagine the console was removed to "simplify" the experience, as opposed to prevent cheating. Certainly no one really cares about cheating in a singleplayer game?

It matters if trophies are involved. Imagine if the military gave out purple hearts to everyone just for joining. How would that make the people feel who actually earned them?

[broodwars]

Bethesda has released an update on their blog, stating that a new 1.3 patch is coming soon.  This patch will not fix the many PS3 issues, but merely the things they broke with their last patch (such as backwards flying dragons and magic resistances not calculating).

They also are begging for PS3 players to send them their save files, as they "can't" figure out what is causing the game to be near-unplayable the more players advance through it.  Yeah, suuuuuure they can't, considering this is pretty similar to how Fallout 3 and New Vegas play on PS3.

Finally, they note that they will not be issuing any patches with quest fixes until January, so sucks to be us if you run into one of the many quests that get locked by shoddy programming.  And of course, as always they are fond of reminding us that "it is a big game", as if it is not their fault that they made a game too big to competently QA.

[Chozo Ghost]

January is less than a month away. I know that sucks if you are left hanging in a game, but at least there is hope some or most of these problems will be fixed eventually. Ideally these should have been fixed up before the game was released, but if you  want to know why they weren't I think the answer is they wanted to get it out for a holiday release and capitalize on all that.

No doubt the game needed more time in the oven, but the holiday season waits for no man. So it had to be rushed out for the sake of sales. But a game like this I would expect to have extremely long legs, so they didn't really need to rush it, did they? A lot of games sell good initially and then they burn out and drop off the radar, but this game here will probably be like their other games in that it will have decent sales 5 years from now. Basically by spending $60 to play it now you have the honor of being an early beta tester for what will one day be an awesome game, but isn't quite there just yet.

[Morari]

I imagine the console was removed to "simplify" the experience, as opposed to prevent cheating. Certainly no one really cares about cheating in a singleplayer game?

It matters if trophies are involved. Imagine if the military gave out purple hearts to everyone just for joining. How would that make the people feel who actually earned them?

Those people who earned their Purple Hearts should already feel like fools.

Regardless of that though, you can't seriously compare the two. Maybe it's just a console thing, but I've always seen achievements as being throwaway indicators of manufactured progress. About the only time I've ever seen them used well is when they're inserted more as tutorial goals in the beginning. Certainly they're not worth sharing across profiles, trying to see who has the bigger e-penis, and definitely not worth gutting games of useful information and tools.

[TJ Spyke]

Really Morari? You think people who risk their lives to save their fellow soldiers are fools? Wow, my opinion of you has dropped even lower (which I didn't think was possible).

Achievements are a very nice addition to games this gen, and something that should be standard in every game from now on (it will be a fail if Wii U doesn't have a universal system for it). One good reason is that they encourage people to do more in games than they might have before. For example, I never would have bothered creating songs in Guitar Hero 5 if there weren't achievements involved.

[Ceric]

I just watched an Extra Credit relevant to this conversation.
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/achievements

[Morari]

Wow, my opinion of you has dropped even lower (which I didn't think was possible).

It upsets me so much to know that I've let you down. After all, your opinion means the world to me.

[TJ Spyke]

I wish there was a way to block other people (like Facebook has).

Back on topic. Skyrim looks interesting, but I won't be getting it anytime soon. For one, I have still not even play Oblivion. Second, all the bugs reported so far.

[NWR_insanolord]

I wish there was a way to block other people (like Facebook has).

I don't think you'd like it if we had that, given how many people would undoubtedly use it against you.

[Chozo Ghost]

Yeah, it probably would be best not to open that can of worms. The best thing to do is just manually skip over posts if you feel the need to, and you can also report posts to the mods when someone crosses the line (which I don't think has happened in this thread yet).

[Caliban]

So apparently there's this huge alchemy (like in Full Metal Alchemist) that can be performed, and I'm not talking about a small transmutation circle. It's a Skyrim wide transmutation circle.

Huge Spoilers

[Shorty McNostril]

So I hear the new patch broke the game even more?