Topic: Controller Evolution: Is It Necessary?

[OldMan Nintendo]

I personally believe that the SNES and the GCN controllers are the best controllers ever made for a console system -- they even rival PC game controllers.

I understand that by changing the way a gaming controller looks and feels, that that controller can be immediately identified with the system it was made for.  However, there is some doubt in my mind as to whether or not the industry has to create entirely new controller layouts when former layouts were, in a sense, flawless as they were?  When it comes to controllers the quote, "Why fix something when it ain't broke?" really doesn't mean much in the gaming industry.

Once you have the formula down for a controller that fits snugly in your hand and has all the buttons easily accessible why change it??

[ThePerm]

ou know if they had two buttons underneathe the d-pad and c-stuick they would be absolutely comfortable...you could do like a pinball game....

[Grey Ninja]

Personally, I don't think that any controller will ever be perfect.  I definately like to see new controller designs with every console.  It takes advantage of what the console does best, and the designs are further refined as they go along.

I think the GameCube controller is the best controller ever designed as well, but I know that Nintendo can and will do better with the next generation.

[mouse_clicker]

I didn't realise that PC game controllers were good at all- none I've ever used can compare to most console controllers. After all, with a PC game you usually use a mouse and keyboard while on a console you can be holding the same chunk of plastic for hours on end- they HAVE to be comfortable, and most of them are. PC controllers, to me, are just imitations designed to get console gamers to play more PC games.

[Stex]

No, it's not necessary.  Sony has shown this with Dualshock.  It worked for PS1, itis working for PS2, and I'd bet that it'll be used and work for PS3.  Another thing nice about using the same controller is that older ones work with the new systems.  Good stuff.

[mouse_clicker]

Yeah, but the problems that existed with the older controller still exist with the newer controller. If someone could achieve controller nirvana, I'd actually prefer they keep the same controller. Otherwise, I support controller evolution so they can continue to find the best design. Luckily the Dual Shock 2 is very ergonomic and has very few problems.

[Grey Ninja]

Quote
Originally posted by: Stex
No, it's not necessary.  Sony has shown this with Dualshock.  It worked for PS1, itis working for PS2, and I'd bet that it'll be used and work for PS3.  Another thing nice about using the same controller is that older ones work with the new systems.  Good stuff.

I hate the Dual Shock.  The new one they made for the PS2 is even worse (I HATE the analog face buttons).  Try playing SSX sometime with the dual shock, then try it with the GameCube.  Tell me which one cramps your hand up.

[Syl]

I also HATE the dual shock.
it has so many flaws, and its so uncomfortable..

and those joysticks are horrendous.


I love the gamcube controller, it feels so good in your hands, it kinda feels like it melts in... I don't really like the face buttons much, but it feels so perfect.

[rpglover]

the gamecube controller is the best one comfort wise- i play nba street vol. 2 without ever feeling uncomfortable with the controller
the ps2 one is alright- i just dont like the placement of the 2 joysticks-
i like how the gc has the main one on the left near the top on the controller and the c-stick at the lower part
the original xbox controller sucked- too big and cluncky
but the new controller s is great- feels good in your hands and plays well

but i dont think anything will ever beat the snes controller- it was the most well designed ones ever
it had the perfect size, good face button placement, and good triggers

[Gamefreak]

The PS2 controller is just deluxe version of the Super Nintendo controller, with the added "features" of much to loose analog sticks and being less comfortable than the GCN controller. But at least it has a D-pad that's not leftover from the Game Boy Advance factories..

[oohhboy]

Yeah but the D-pad is missing the middle which disaollows to to just simply roll you thumb slightly(Unless you have big thumbs) to produce movement. Also the two analouges are hell on the hands as it forces you to streach both your hands to play FPS's. When I play on any PS controller, I tend to have to hold on must tighter than any other controller bring the pain faster than using PC controls. As for the d-pad on the GC controller it's too small if you were using in exculsively for directional control, but other wise it serves it's funtion as an item seletor. The shoulder buttons on a PS controller if you were required to use more than one of them, it forced you to leave only two fingers under the controller than the normal three, with all that leading to village if the pain. That was probaly why the GC controller only has the z button and funtions assigned to it are not ones used often or neededing to be held down long.

The thing between the PS control and the Xbox control is that with the xbox you atleast had something to hold on to.

The SNES buttons were too soft and when you pressed it you didn't quite know when to stop leading quickly to pain. So I when and brouhgt one that clicked and felt solid.

[K-Man]

I also like the GCN's controller except I don;t like the L and R buttons. I keep thinking that they are going to break one day and be rooted. I also like the Xbox's hand control. And the PS2's controller, hurts my poor thumbs when plaing for to long using the D-Pad.

[EggyToast]

My only complaint about the GC controllers is that the deadzone for the analog sticks and the shoulder buttons seems abnormally large.  Or the games I've played that use them well have their sensitivity screwed up.  But it seems hard to just nudge them and get a response on the screen -- I seem to have to move them further in the direction I want to than is reflected in the movement on screen.  

Other than that, I love the design and how everything works together.  Shoulder buttons are great -- bigger and curved is better!  I think it'd be cool if they added some extra buttons on the underside, on the part where the 3 extra fingers on your hand wrap around, so you'd only have to squeeze in order to click them.  But it would probably create problems in hand-size differences.  Still, it'd be cool if they let you use more fingers for controlling various things.

[nitsu niflheim]

Quote
Originally posted by: Stex
No, it's not necessary.  Sony has shown this with Dualshock.  It worked for PS1, itis working for PS2, and I'd bet that it'll be used and work for PS3.  Another thing nice about using the same controller is that older ones work with the new systems.  Good stuff.

If Nintendo did this they would be ridiculed.  But Sony does it and it's like innovative or something.  There is a double standard in the industry.  Nintendo could do something and get lambasted for it, then Sony go and do the same exact thing and get acclaim for it.

[Gamefreak]

The deadzone differs per game...

[EggyToast]

Oh really?  Then it is a software problem then.  I'll take up my complaints with the devs from now on

[GoldShadow1]

I don't really think each system needs a brand new controller.  Just minor tweaks here and there would be nice.  On the GCN, I think I'd want a better z-button and a bigger c-stick, but that's about it.  The GCN controller is awesome - the huge a-button is mesmerizing to my fingers.

[AERO]

The grip of the original xbox controller wouldn't exist if they just stopped making new designs after 1993 as you suggested. So I dissagree.  

[Termin8Anakin]

Quote
Originally posted by: Grey Ninja

I hate the Dual Shock.  The new one they made for the PS2 is even worse (I HATE the analog face buttons).

What? The PS2 controller has analog face buttons?

[Pale]

I want to see a controller with a flip around stick that has a dpad on the other side.    Granted you couldn't play with both at the same time, but at least they'd be in the prime position when you did want them.  Thats why I loved the design of the N64 controller.  The two hand placements were the perfect solution, I dont' know why so many people hated this...

[oohhboy]

Evolution is going to happen as there is no such thing called perfect controller unless it uses your mental impluses, even then how accurate could it be without taping right into your brain? Who ever says there is a perfect controller is lying.

Yeah, the dual shock 2 has analouge face buttons(Not really, like it has hard and softer), but they are pretty worthless to use in game. As there is only like 1-2 mm of space from your thumb to the face and in the heat of the game, you are not going to press the button right.

[Stex]

Quote
Originally posted by: nitsujdark


If Nintendo did this they would be ridiculed.  But Sony does it and it's like innovative or something.  There is a double standard in the industry.  Nintendo could do something and get lambasted for it, then Sony go and do the same exact thing and get acclaim for it.

Um, ok....when did I or anyone else ever say that using the same controller is innovative?  I just that it was a good idea.  And yes, Nintendo would have gotten lambasted for using that garbage controller for the N64 for the GC also.  That's my opinion of course, but I thought the N64 controller sucked nuts.

Anyways, why do people around here get so defensive?

-Stex

[oohhboy]

By keeping the same controller they are saying it is "Perfect". Which it is not. The N64 did a good job at what it did. It had two flaws. One, analouge stick would get losse after a year or so. Two, one could not access all the buttons at any given time. GE would not have been GE without that controller.

[JoeSmashBro]

Quote
I want to see a controller with a flip around stick that has a dpad on the other side.  Granted you couldn't play with both at the same time, but at least they'd be in the prime position when you did want them.

good idea.

Yeah, the GC controller is confy and the control stick rules, and i like the button placement on the right, but it still has some flaws:

- it should have another "z" type button on the right so that games that have too many thigns to do won't be so awkward, or at least they won't be any more awkward than they are on PS2 games.
- the directional pad is not good at all. It's awkward to reach for (at least to play a whole game with) and its too small for where it is. I know it's the same size as the GBA one but it doesn't matter as much on the GBA because it's in a much more comfortable place to hit. The d-pad on the Dreamcast is great, they should use one like that. I also like the XBox d-pad
- The c-stick SOMETIMES doesn't work that great for aiming in FPS because it's a little extra stiff and the "c" part where you put your finger MIGHT be a little small. that one's preference though, i think.

the z-button is easy to use once you get used to it, so i like that. I also like the shoulder buttons. the analong stick is easily the best ever. I hate PSX/PS2 analog sticks.

[EggyToast]

The c-stick sensitivity is actually entirely based on how the development team codes it.  You saw the reports from E3 about how sloppy some controls were, right?  It's all modifiable in code, and I've noticed the same non-responsiveness in Timesplitters with the C-stick.  It works fine overall but the "dead zone" seems particularly large.  Yet, in a game like Mario Sunshine, I just have to nudge it slightly and the camera responds immediately.

So fudge that one up to coders not testing enough or bad devtools.