Topic: Super Mario 3D World: Almost the Best of All Possible Marios

[NWR_Neal]

Combine the style of 3D Land with the multiplayer of New Super Mario Bros. and then dream for the exploration of Galaxy.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/blog/34825

From what I've seen and played of Super Mario 3D World, it seems to combine a lot of what I loved about recent Mario games. It has the revelatory multiplayer experience that goes between cooperation and playful competition with ease. Unlike New Super Mario Bros. U, which lost a bit of the novelty factor since New Super Mario Bros. Wii did that multiplayer three years prior, it feels fresh. Each character controls differently and playing together in 3D space is, no shock, a ton of fun. Even the bubble system is a lot friendlier, letting players automatically bubble up when they're left off screen (or some jerk runs quickly ahead while you try to explore).

3D World also has the marvel of Super Mario 3D Land, which is easily in the same league as Super Mario 64 and Galaxy for me. It has that same freedom of 3D space while still retaining some more of the 2D Mario elements that were a little lost in the transition to 3D. The cat suit adds a sense of variety, especially since the suit has so many options. You can climb up walls. You can do a diving strike similar to the flying kick in TMNT arcade games. You can scratch enemies. You can look freaking adorable as a cat with a cute tail and a sweet headpiece. Hell, Luigi is like a spotted leopard. It is incredible.

The one thing that 3D World lacks, at least in demo form, that I miss about older 3D Mario titles is the sense of exploration. It’s what made Super Mario 64 and Galaxy such sublime experiences. Worlds had personality and were filled with colorful themes and characters. As much as I love 3D Land, the landscapes were a little sterile, and at first glance, 3D World might be more of the same. Of course, it might have that exploration, but at this stage, all we can do is guess.

Still, the wait until December will be unbearable. I can’t wait for Super Mario 3D World. Have you seen how cute the cat suit is? It is so cute!

[Webmalfunction]

A dog suit would have been better 

Regardless, I would be way more excited for this if 3D Land was never released. As it stands, this looks to be a better sequel to a really exciting Mario game, and in my mind not necessarily worthy of the same excitement in itself. I'll buy it I guess, but it's incredibly disappointing to me that they still locked the analog to 8 directions (it's only impressive if PokĂ©mon does it!)  and that it still has the same pop-in that 3D Land does despite being on a much stronger console.

We really don't know enough, but the demo I played just felt like a slight improvement over 3D Land with better graphics.

[alegoicoe]

it would be cool if Nintendo included 3d for those poor souls that have a 3d TVs.

[Pixelated Pixies]

Even though I know I'll enjoy 3D World, I just can't get excited for it (then again, I wasn't overly excited about 3D Land and that game turned out to be exceptional). I would lying if I said that I wasn't somewhat disappointed. When I think about what a HD Mario on a modern console could be, of the new possibilties that online offers, and of the scope and level of detail that's possible, NSMB U and SM3W aren't exactly what springs to mind.
 
I thoroughly enjoy exploration in games, so I hope Nintendo hasn't discarded 64's legacy altogether.

[Ian Sane]

As Neal stated it pushes the multiplayer and scales back the exploration.  Unfortunately I think Mario works better as a single player game (the more people I had playing NSMB Wii, the less fun I had) and, for me, the exploration of the 3D Mario games is the primary hook.  So they took out my favourite element of 3D Mario and added something I don't like.  You can understand why I wouldn't be interested.

Another problem is simply that I think the whole idea of 3D Land was to make 3D Mario more accessible by making it more like NSMB.  So the levels are made more linear and the gameplay loses a lot of its complexity to appeal to a wider audience that demands simpler gameplay.  So 3D World is like step two in the grand plan to dumb down Mario.

[Adrock]

So 3D World is like step two in the grand plan to dumb down Mario.

If that's what Nintendo did, they need to keep doing that because 3D Land was sexmazing. I invented a word to describe how good it is.

[Adrock]

Upon googling "sexmazing," it appears I did not invent it. Still an accurate description of 3D Land.

[NeoThunder]

the problem with a playable Peach character is, who are you rescuing? In all Mario games your always traveling through the worlds to ultimately save princess Peach. So what's my motivation now?

[Adrock]

Save Daisy. Save Subcon. Save kittens.

[NWR_insanolord]

Maybe they're rescuing Waluigi.

[nickmitch]

the problem with a playable Peach character is, who are you rescuing? In all Mario games your always traveling through the worlds to ultimately save princess Peach. So what's my motivation now?

IT WAS ALL A DREAM!

[Evan_B]

Galaxy had little to no exploration, and I consider that a poor example of the series' once strongest feature.

Though 3D World looks to have more variety and more options than it's god-awful predecessor, it doesn't excuse the fact that it looks to have no consistency in world theme AGAIN because of the trend that Galaxy started- AKA "order things by difficulty rather than aesthetics". Which will mean it will once again be a jumbled mess of a game from a visual standpoint, something of a trend with Mario games as of late.

I refused to buy Galaxy 2 because it was more of the same- and I refuse to buy this until someone can prove to me its level design is much different than 3D Land. I hated the structure of that game and though there seems to be more variety and less of that subpar level design, that alone is enough to turn me off.

I used to love Mario games, but this is another boring installment in a series far past its prime.

[azeke]

I am very excited for this game and seeing co-op makes me want the game even more (haters are free to hate on in their little hater corner).

NSMB games basically provided two games rolled in one, single player where i meticulously beat levels and collected all stars and multiplayer with crazy co-op **** happening.

And yet, this piece reads like justifying things from Stockholm syndrome victim. "Let's dream", "it might have". It feels like you're apologetic about your excitement.

[Spak-Spang]

I actually think Mario is best when its exploration element is focused.  In Super Mario 64 the levels you played were actually quite small.  So you got to explore, but if felt less like exploring...and more like running around in a virtual playground.  That is what made Super Mario 64 so enjoyable to me. 


However, Sunshine although they made exploration and play easier.  I felt the level design itself did not capture this element of play.  The tasks seemed more focused, and instead of playing in a playground to eventually find/get a star.  I felt I had to do tasks to earn the star...and it wasn't as fun.


Galaxy, focused the level design again...and allowed for the levels to be bigger.  However, it continued to have this feeling of earning the star instead of just finding it.  I felt like I couldn't just play in the world...that I had to actually accomplish something.  Which often in Super Mario 64, I would jump into a level and select a star I already got, because I wanted to run on the boat that was only in that star...or shoot myself in a cannon and fly around the level.  I didn't care if I got the Star or not.


So although all the Mario games are great.  None of the games have captured the brilliance of the original Mario 3D platformer. 


I do want to try 3D World and Land and see what the design for those games are like.  I think the approach is interesting...and I am curious to see where they can take Mario from here.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

And yet, this piece reads like justifying things from Stockholm syndrome victim. "Let's dream", "it might have". It feels like you're apologetic about your excitement.

Neal IS a Nintendo apologist (his last blog post was titled "Wii Party U Is Actually Really Fun"). But at least he wears it on his sleeve.

[azeke]

Neal IS a Nintendo apologist (his last blog post was titled "Wii Party U Is Actually Really Fun"). But at least he wears it on his sleeve.

But Wii Party IS fun! ;p

[NWR_Neal]

I won't deny being a Nintendo apologist, but considering I started that off with "my reaction to Wii Party U was a sneer," you could think of a better example, TYP.

When it comes down to it, I'm excited for 3D World. Very excited, in fact. But I hoped that the "3D Mario" on Wii U would be something that would blow my hair back. Like Galaxy. Like Mario 64. Hell, even like 3D Land. The fact that it's an iteration on a prior concept is a bummer when I still have the mindset that 3D Mario games should be genre-defining (like Galaxy, like Mario 64).

And while I totally used Galaxy as an example of exploration, I totally concede the points that it isn't as explorative as some might hope for. I went back and played some of Mario 64 after getting frustrated on some late game Galaxy 2 stars and realized how much I miss the exploration present in Mario 64. How each level was its own little world and you could do things out of order if you knew what you were doing. Galaxy had a kernel of that in its worlds and overworld (I actually missed the overworld when they sort-of excised it from Galaxy 2), but it wasn't as robust as Mario 64's castle and individual levels.

But seriously. Wii Party U impressed me.

[Pandareus]

You don't have to be a Nintendo apologist to like Wii Party U. The game's predecessor had a ton of fun multiplayer games and modes, and the Wii U version only seems better.

As for Galaxy having exploration, I'm helping the girlfriend to get through the game, and it is fantastic, but the levels are even more linear than I remembered.

[KeyBilly]

Well said, Spak-Spang.  Nintendo's focus for a while now has been on capturing and distilling the essence of what a Mario game is.  They've come to the conclusion that relatively short, linear levels without any fluff are what Mario games are.  I can't legitimately argue with the creators of the games, but that is not what Mario is in my mind.

Mario games used to be genre-defining, pushing the boundaries of creativity and control.  Now, they are stuck in the past.  It doesn't feel like someone really passionate pushed for their bold vision.  There is no grandness to them, making the whole industry hold their breath to see what Nintendo is going to do next.  They are safe, minimal games that are largely recycling old ideas.  When they make a game, I would rather they not feel so confined by the past and some strict concept of what a Mario game is.  To me, a Mario game should inherently be willing to break the rules.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I don't think anyone would argue that levels in the Galaxy games were expansive in terms of how large or non-linear they were. Those games did not concern themselves with presenting the player with large open levels, but I would argue that exploration and experimentation were still present, albeit in different forms. You didn't so much explore areas as you did concepts. The Galaxy games felt big because they provided so much variety. You were constantly being shown something new, not just in terms of gameplay, but also in terms of graphics, music, etc.
 
If 3D World proves to be as generous as the Galaxy games were, then perhaps I can do without traditional exploration. Basically, what I want is something that excites me and shows me what the Mario series is capable of on this new hardware.

[MegaByte]

It seems to me that Mario games are both. The biggest difference is that Nintendo is now willing to keep pumping out games without the genre-defining attributes in the interim, and Miyamoto or whoever seems to be having a harder time coming up with those boundary pushing creative mechanics.

[NWR_Neal]

It seems to me that Mario games are both. The biggest difference is that Nintendo is now willing to keep pumping out games without the genre-defining attributes in the interim, and Miyamoto or whoever seems to be having a harder time coming up with those boundary pushing creative mechanics.

Which I totally get. I doubt Nintendo can ever replicate something on the scale of Mario 64. I think my head exploded when I first saw that and played that. That doesn't stop me from wanting something on the scale of Mario 64, though. In the interim, I'm okay with getting some games in the caliber of a NSMBU or 3D Land (since they're fantastic).

[Webmalfunction]

I just hope that this isnt THE Mario game, and is just a basic 3D one to satisfy fans while working on the actual console 3D Mario game.

If this is it, then I'll be insanely disappointed in EAD Tokyo and especially Nintendo for thinking this is enough.

[MegaByte]

I don't think it is or they wouldn't have named it like that.

[azeke]

I just hope that this isnt THE Mario game, and is just a basic 3D one to satisfy fans while working on the actual console 3D Mario game.

If this is it, then I'll be insanely disappointed in EAD Tokyo and especially Nintendo for thinking this is enough.

Yoshiaki Koizumi mentioned that his main project is not Super Mario 3D World (if that spanish translation is accurate).

I can't wait to see his project. He is one of the greatest game designers in Nintendo right now and more than a worthy successor to Miyamoto even his vision clashes with Shiggy at times.