Author Topic: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)  (Read 26734 times)

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Offline Pale

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Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« on: October 27, 2009, 11:45:15 AM »
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/blogArt.cfm?artid=20202

 


A relatively bizarre rumor about Nintendo releasing a new DS has been swirling around the web over the past 24 hours.  It's bizarre because the DSi is still a baby.  In fact, the new features that the DSi brought to the table have barely been utilized to this point.  What could they possibly add now?    


Bigger screens of course!  Do they realize this will actually make all of the games look worse? Without increasing both the resolution and horsepower, this new DS will likely feel like a downgrade. Yes, that statement includes a pretty big assumption.  It's a safe one though.  Assuming this new DS rumor is true at all, it's safe to say that if it did feature a significant performance hike, Nintendo wouldn't be quietly sneaking it out without a proper E3 unveil.    


The rumors have been referencing two reasons for this new system: to compete with the better screens on the iPhone and PSP, and to make the system friendlier for older players.  The first one is laughable.  It's not going to compete with those screens. In fact, it's going to do just the opposite.  It will emphasize the shortcomings of the DS screen even more.  The reason people like the DS/DSi screens so much is because of their crispness and clarity.  This has everything to do with the relative pixel size.  The DS's pixels are already significantly larger than those of the iPhone.  This rumored new unit will make that difference even greater!  Check out the comparison image below.  These images should be close to life size if your monitor is close to 72 DPI.  Notice how the larger dimensions make the game feel more archaic?    


New DS Rumor Screen Comparison
   


This is the primary reason the Game Boy Micro is such a great device.  It did the exact opposite.  Shrinking the screen size makes the relative pixel size smaller, which improves the visual fidelity of the experience.    


This all says nothing of the increased bulk this rumored device would require, which would take the DS farther way from another competitive advantage of the iPhone and PSPgo, that being the ease of carrying the device around in a pocket.  Just look at what would have to happen if the same clam-shell design and button sizes were maintained ("new" DS mock-up on left, DSi on right).    


New DS Rumor Hardware Comparison
   


Maybe this mystery machine is the true "DS2", and Nintendo is bucking tradition and going for a surprise launch.  If that's the case and the four-inch screen spec is true, they need to leave the vertical resolution and height alone, and instead move to a wider format.  This would allow for original DS games to run at the same DPI that the DSi does.  Newer games could then take advantage of a larger screen without the ugliness inherent with larger pixels.  Assuming a clam-shell design and equivalent button sizes, it could look something like the image below.  As you can see in this mock-up, the top screen acts as if it were playing an original DS game, and the bottom screen acts as if it were playing a "DS2" game.  Pixels are all relatively sized to give you a somewhat precise feeling for what it would look like.    


New DS Rumor / What I want!
   


Sadly, this mock-up is nothing more than a pipe dream at this point.  As the astute reader may be thinking, it does not do anything to help older people see the screens better for original DS games.    


I've purchased every DS iteration up to this point, because I've felt that each one brings worthwhile new features to the table.  I will not be buying a system that makes all my games look uglier.  The DS is eating the lunch of the PSP and iPhone as a gaming platform because of its own competitive advantages.  There is no reason to attack their screens unless it is done correctly.

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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2009, 01:02:23 PM »
Better to increase the pixel size than the pixel count IF your graphic contents will never utilize the extra resolution, I'd say (ie. no real horsepower upgrade, DS continuing to be plain-old DS).  Scaling sucks.  SD on HDTV is awful smudgy-wudginess; 50" of native 480p was a beautiful thing, but the freaking industry took a step forward while taking a step back, fer cryin' out loud.

And your comparison shot doesn't accurately get your point across.  The pixel interpolation generated by the image scaling has introduced degredation.  IF increasing the DS screen size means increasing the physical pixel size, then a better real-world example would be holding up the actual DS Lite closer to your eyeballs to enlarge the image, or, use a magnifying lens.  You could've just posted an official DS game screenshot and asked us to stick our faces closer to our monitors to get the desirable effect.
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Offline Pale

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2009, 01:41:27 PM »
I think it's mostly my source image that caused the degradation.  I was doing proper scaling for the most part.  If anything, my images look better than what you'd actually see because it's possible that "steps" could be created in the scaling... but i guess that's the smoothing you are rallying against.

It's true holding the DS closer gets that effect, and holding the DS closer causes the image to break down.  The same can be said for sitting too close to a digital projector.  When you can start to count the pixels, that's all you see... not the image they are trying to create.

None of that hides the fact that Nintendo is counting on consumer ignorance with "tricks" like this.  It would be a ridiculous claim to say that this rumored DS screen is "as good" as the iPhone's screen because they are the same size in inches.

Pro, when you are shopping for a computer monitor, what do you value more? size in inches or maximum native resolution?

Obviously, I always look for both, but I would buy a 21" monitor over a 24" monitor if the 21 pushed a higher resolution.
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Offline vudu

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2009, 02:25:55 PM »
If this new DSi is targeted towards older players then who cares what Mario & Luigi looks like?  These people aren't going to buy that game.  Show me Brain Age or Cooking Training or Crosswords DS.  These games are going to be easy for your mom to read on a larger screen.  Resolution on these games really doesn't matter nearly as much as size.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2009, 02:28:06 PM »
"It's true holding the DS closer gets that effect, and holding the DS closer causes the image to break down.  The same can be said for sitting too close to a digital projector."

Yes, the width of the margins between each pixel become more noticeable, giving outline-definitions to the squares.  But really, that's holding the darn thing TOO close.  Treating the current screen like the proposed 4" screen is a matter of moving it a couple inches closer (maybe less than that), and keeping practical, we shouldn't be holding it to our face close enough to stab our eyes with the stylus; IT'S FINE at elbow's length, slightly bigger pixels or not, closer than that would be optically uncomfortable for me.  Just my assumption, if the pixels are manufactured to be larger, I don't think those margins would increase, therefore not magnifying the bad bits.

"When you can start to count the pixels, that's all you see... not the image they are trying to create."

How on earth did we get past the 320x240 MS-DOS age?  Game Boy Tetris?  How on earth are we still playing 8/16-bit games on our 50"+ TVs?

"It would be a ridiculous claim to say that this rumored DS screen is "as good" as the iPhone's screen because they are the same size in inches."

No argument here.  That's a marketing issue.  I'm zeroing in on whether bigger pixels means worse images; a flexible balance exists.  With regards to a new DS Game Player introduced to be a DS Game Player and NOT a web-browsing-GPS-smarty-cam-phone, consumer ignorance shrinks as an issue if consumer comfort is already met.

"Pro, when you are shopping for a computer monitor, what do you value more? size in inches or maximum native resolution?"

I was about to say PRICE, cuz the high-rez movement has been kicking dirt in my face for several years.  I'm trying to enjoy and work with video happily on a CRT for the sake of viewing video closer to their native resolutions so that I can achieve a comfy viewing size and maintain pixel-accuracy.  Then the HD movement comes along, with super-rez and smaller pixels without exception, and now all videos are suddenly smaller than post-it notes (standard text is even smaller now) such that I have to suddenly scale up more than 3-4X to fill up my screen (for comfy viewing), throwing interpolated junk pixels at me when I'm trying to analyze the image content?

I upgraded from a CRT this past January only cuz the <$200 deals on 22" 2ms 1080p LCDs started trickling down.  Industry, jump off a cliff.
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Offline Pale

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2009, 03:04:38 PM »
If this new DSi is targeted towards older players then who cares what Mario & Luigi looks like?  These people aren't going to buy that game.  Show me Brain Age or Cooking Training or Crosswords DS.  These games are going to be easy for your mom to read on a larger screen.  Resolution on these games really doesn't matter nearly as much as size.
The whole thesis of my post is based off the fact that one of the reasons floating around in the rumors is to compete with the PSP and iPhone screens.  If the sole reason for this new version is to fill a niche with old people, then yeah, I withdraw my argument.


To Pro:
Yeah it sucks for you because of all the work you've done on video over the past several years, but in the magical world where you did all that with a higher res version, wouldn't that make for a better viewing experience now?

I feel for your specific pain, but not letting go of the past is one of the technology industries greatest flaws.  It's the companies willing to throw stuff out that are gaining the most ground.

Apple threw out OS 9.

Nintendo threw out the traditional controller.

I am happy that we are in the process of "throwing out" standard definition.  While it can be frustrating now, it will make for a better looking future. =P  That's why I get so frustrated when I feel like Nintendo is ok with incremental upgrades in that regard.
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Offline Louieturkey

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2009, 03:22:10 PM »
If this new DSi is targeted towards older players then who cares what Mario & Luigi looks like?  These people aren't going to buy that game.  Show me Brain Age or Cooking Training or Crosswords DS.  These games are going to be easy for your mom to read on a larger screen.  Resolution on these games really doesn't matter nearly as much as size.
The whole thesis of my post is based off the fact that one of the reasons floating around in the rumors is to compete with the PSP and iPhone screens.  If the sole reason for this new version is to fill a niche with old people, then yeah, I withdraw my argument.
This was the rumor before the DSi was announced.  They rumored that a new larger screen DS was going to be released for the older crowd (ie 50 and above) so they could see the screen better.  They may have ditched that in favor of the DSi but are getting the same complaints from the older demos and are going to now do this with the DSi instead.

I really don't think they will replace the current DSi with this new model.  I don't think there would be much point actually. 

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2009, 03:48:17 PM »
I donno, larger screens sound pretty sweet to me.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2009, 04:03:55 PM »
This really isn't anything weird form Nintendo, remember the brighter screen GBA SP that was released shortly after the GBA SP? Nintendo just does this stuff with their handhelds.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2009, 04:37:03 PM »
"Yeah it sucks for you because of all the work you've done on video over the past several years, but in the magical world where you did all that with a higher res version, wouldn't that make for a better viewing experience now?"

Dunno, magical world costs MEGA$$$ in upgrades.  Higher rez means increased horsepower, increased file size, and increased bandwidth requirement, and therefore increased costs.  Part of my user-comfort/"good enough" tech philosophy is keep convenience up and costs down.  If the costs for the high-spec content reaches convenience, then the low-spec content is even MORE convenient and even cheaper -- why abandon that?

"I feel for your specific pain, but not letting go of the past is one of the technology industries greatest flaws.  It's the companies willing to throw stuff out that are gaining the most ground."

"2D" gaming might be a thing of the past, but it's proven to still be practical to this day.  Let's throw that out, why don't we.

Sony threw out physical, easy-swap in/out media for the PSP Go.  Nice one.

Sony threw out backwards compatibility for the PS3.  Nice one.

Nintendo threw out the traditional controller?  This is the WORST time to mention that!  The Wii Remote is one of the MOST traditional controllers today, just rotated to a different angle and given a 6million Dollar Man bionic upgrade so that it looks like the old thing but has a new Magick Murder Bag of tricks.  Nintendo's BIGGEST game this season is a 2D platformer that hardly uses motion magick and tells users it's OK to play games from a couch again (!).  Motion Plus, their "big" advancement, is old news at this point given the drought of products that could've utilized it (!).  Their MAJOR 3rd party partnership with Capcom went as far as promoting some CLASSIC CONTROLLER of all things alongside the biggest Wii 3rd party game of the year (!), painting a picture of what the primary interface should be.

I guess Nintendo is abandoning the Wii Remote to succeed, causing my message to fall apart.


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« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 04:39:37 PM by NinGurl69 *huggles »
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Offline Pale

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2009, 05:54:41 PM »
Higher resolutions are in no way synonymous with losing all those things you said.  Also, throwing out physical media IS a great decision for the PSP Go, there are just other issues with how they are doing that transition.

The past is the past.  The future is THE FUTURE!

=P

I just don't understand how you can really make an argument that hanging on to ancient technologies is a good thing.  That's one thing about all your posts on this subject I will never be able to comprehend.  Why abandon lower price points?  Because the higher price points are BETTER!

If someone can afford X dollars now and super fancy better technology costs 2X dollars, they obviously won't get it.

When super fancy better technology costs X dollars and the original technology costs .5X dollars they can afford both, why not get something that is better?

I mean, why do you even have a Wii now?  If you stuck with NES you would have been able to cheaply play hundreds and hundreds of games over the past 20 years.
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Offline AV

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2009, 06:34:31 PM »
Pale I agree with everyone you said, and you made some excellent pints.

That being said do older japanese population have larger sums of disposable income?

Maybe i'm looking at it in the eyes of an American, but upgrading technology and old people are not known for being one and the same. 

The bigger screens would be nicer, but why would they burn money upgrading when the unit they might already have that currently works just fine.
 

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2009, 06:35:42 PM »
I don't see an issue with this idea.  They're just trying to make sure their platform is open to whomever.  Please note that it'll also be easier to utilize the touch screen at this size, too, since buttons on it, as well as other things, will be larger.  They're not charging a higher price for it, if the rumor is true.  This is literally an issue of non-importance if you don't need a new screen, and the amount of time Nintendo is investing in the thing has to be abysmal for such a minor update.

So really, I think this is a matter where we should ask ourselves "Why don't we get it?"  As in, why can't we understand that we don't particularly have to care about this new version of the DS, as this type of consumer.

Unfortunately, this doesn't apply to Pale, since he's a gaming journalist, but with most anyone else, I don't see why we'd care, and I don't see why we can't just let Nintendo do it and just forget about it.

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2009, 07:52:45 PM »
I'm personally holding out for a five inch screen.

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2009, 07:58:40 PM »
Now we're talkin'.  It would display Wing Commander II with perfect fidelity.
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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2009, 09:18:57 PM »
Give it a break.  I love the Gameboy Player on my Gamecube!  I know we'll probably never get anything to play DS on a TV screen so I'm definitely looking forward to anything with a larger screen.  If Nintendo wants to increase the screen every six months it's okay with me!

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2009, 09:21:56 PM »
oh yeah... one more thing...  If we are so worried about graphic resolution then why are most of us playing the Wii?   It's not the pixel resolution that counts!

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2009, 09:39:25 PM »
Remember these creatures?


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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2009, 09:53:08 PM »
They make her boobs bigger?
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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2009, 12:15:43 AM »
ok, setting aside all the technical jargon I think just that Nintendo may be releasing yet another partial successor to the DS only a year after the last one is reason enough to think Nintendo "doesn't get it".  But hey, I suppose if people like buying new iPhones every year maybe it's not so crazy for Nintendo to allegedly try and milk the DSi even more.
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Offline that Baby guy

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2009, 12:48:04 AM »
Just like the Game Boy Micro was a partial successor to the GBA, eh?

Oh wait, these are just alternatives, and none-more expensive.  Buy it if you want, don't buy it if you don't want, but why really care?  Virtually no R&D went into this.  I can't figure out why it's such a big deal!

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2009, 12:59:46 AM »
I am willing to give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt here.  They must have at least checked how the bigger screens would affect the older games and see if anything can be done to prevent any issues.

I also have to agree with thatguy in that a big deal has been done over this. This is still just a rumor, with no evidence of how the screens would look. At this time, all we are doing is arguing over something that is non-existent.
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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2009, 01:15:45 AM »
I don't even mean that it's a rumor.  I just mean that if it's true, so what?  This literally means nothing.  Anyone with a DSi won't be missing out on anything, and chances are, unless you have some issues viewing small things up close or reading, you'd probably want to stick to the DSi's screen as it is now.  There's just about zero reason for us to care about this... What?  We don't want our grandparents to be able to enjoy games now?

I just don't even see the point in talking about this as a forum member.  This should be good news.  I was hoping to see something like headlines of "Nintendo could be looking to make the DSi more accessible." Or at least something like that.  I do agree with Pale, to an extent, because if you've got a DSi, you've got no reason to want this.  But... Just because you don't want something doesn't mean it's a bad thing.  It's like someone with a white Wii complaining about the new black model, saying how it'll show dust and dirt more than the white one.  Yeah, everyone knows that already, but some people like different colors.  It's not for the people with the original color, it's for people who like it, and both can get along just fine.

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2009, 02:46:58 AM »
Remember these creatures?



Wow.  Totally forgot I had that!  Playing games through that thing made me queasy for some reason.
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Offline Pale

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Re: Why Nintendo Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2009, 07:46:56 AM »
Again, I want to emphasize that really the entire assumption/concern behind this post is that Nintendo will be doing this to "compete" with iPhone and PSP and will be replacing the current DSi with it... ie Stop manufacturing the current DSi.

As I said before, if it does end up just being a niche product, I withdraw my statement that they don't get it.  I just think it's a valid concern that they think increasing the pixel size is all it takes to appear to be on an even keel (from a technological standpoint) with the PSP and the iPhone.
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