Topic: Hoping For Rain: Is Operation Rainfall a Failure or is There Still Hope?

[ejamer]

Besides laying the smackdown on a few niche titles, Reggie has done a fine job. ...

From a purely business perspective, Reggie has done fine work over the course of Wii's lifetime by consistently backing safe bets. I'm less interested in the business side of things than in the games I do (and don't) have available to play though.


That said, my comment isn't just based on a couple of games that could've been brought over - it's because I don't believe that he understands what core gamers want at all. If Nintendo actually wants to walk the walk with Wii U instead of just talking about offering a core gaming experience, then I'm not sure he's the man for the job. If Nintendo wants to stay on the same path (which has been profitable so far), then maybe I'm wrong.


Just not sure how much longer I'm interested on running that same path for a second generation unless I know that some of the things I'm currently missing out on will be made available. I've really enjoyed the Wii and believe it's been an excellent choice for my gaming tastes - but it has some gaping holes in genres that I enjoy and offered me nothing worth buying in the past 10 months. If Reggie doesn't take the blame, who should?

[Kytim89]

@ Ejamer
 
I agree with you that it seems that Reggie does not understand what Nintendo fans want. Honestly, the guy is getting a little long in the tooth in terms of his tenure at NoA, so what would be best for Nintendo is to replace with someone that more youthful and appeals to the core gaming demographics more easily. This person should be business savvy, of course, but at the same time understands that there are fans on your system, you just have to draw them out with quality games. Someone like Cliffy B comes to mind becuase he is young and at the same time knows how to appease the twenty and thirty something crowds that the Wii U needs despratly to survive.

[Mop it up]

I remember people cheering when Reggie first took the stage at E3, 2004, and now everyone wants his head. Funny how things change...

[ejamer]

@ Ejamer
 
I agree with you that it seems that Reggie does not understand what Nintendo fans want. Honestly, the guy is getting a little long in the tooth in terms of his tenure at NoA, so what would be best for Nintendo is to replace with someone that more youthful and appeals to the core gaming demographics more easily. This person should be business savvy, of course, but at the same time understands that there are fans on your system, you just have to draw them out with quality games. Someone like Cliffy B comes to mind becuase he is young and at the same time knows how to appease the twenty and thirty something crowds that the Wii U needs despratly to survive.

Not sure we agree entirely: Reggie does know what many Nintendo fans want. We just aren't the average Nintendo fans that he's catering to. That leaves us trying to decide if we are better off looking elsewhere for next generation gaming needs - and so far Nintendo of America isn't winning my dollars with the way that Wii and 3DS have been handled recently.

[Kytim89]

Nintendo is a unique company in that their IPs are both a hybrid of casual and harcore. Most of their franchises can appeal to both and what happens is that Nintendo does not understand how to cater to two seperat market schemes, or does not care to do it. Right the casual style gamers is the most appealing to Nintendo because its competitors have gobbled up all the core gamers. How Nintendo intends to revitalize its own core games is beyond me, but releasing more games such as Pandora's Tower, Last Story and Xenoblade would be a start. Hell, it might even get the ball wrolling for more fans of Nintendo's core style of gaming to return to their system once more. I mean it would certainly do it for me.

[Adrock]

/facepalm

Really? The guy doesn't release a bunch of niche games and he's suddenly unqualified for a job that no one did especially well until he was hired? He suddenly doesn't understand what fans want? What the? Here's a guy who DID bring over some niche titles and then they failed to meet expectations because people, including myself, didn't buy them. To name a few: Trace Memory, Hotel Dusk, and Elite Beat Agents. I bought 2 of those used which doesn't make NOA a cent. I count myself among the guilty but I'm not among those calling for Reggie's head or complaining why the Rainfall games aren't coming to North America. I know why. We didn't support niche games when we had the chance. If we had, we probably would have gotten the Rainfall games and the follow-ups to the previously stated DS titles: Last Window and Ouendan on DS and Another Code R on Wii. Please explain to me why Reggie/Nintendo of America should keep bringing over games that most of us aren't buying. There's no business sense in that. We are telling Nintendo what we don't want with the money we aren't spending on niche titles.

To say that Reggie doesn't know what core gamers want is absolutely ridiculous, especially when citing the Rainfall games as one of the reasons. Seriously? He somehow convinced Rockstar to support Wii and DS which is nothing short of pulling a live rabbit out of a sandwich bag. Sure, Manhunt 2 sucked, but from what I understand, Chinatown Wars was pretty good. No one bought it then everyone bitched when Rockstar ported the game to PSP. That doesn't make any sense and that's pretty much how I see this whole Operation Rainfall never-ending facepalm of a situation. People relinquish the right to complain when they don't get what they want when they did nothing when they did get what they want. Reggie brought over a bunch of niche games. No one bought them. Reggie convinced a 3rd party known for core games to support Nintendo hardware. No one bought those games either. Yet, when the games stop coming, no one stops bitching about it. That's so unfair. That's like asking for a beautiful gift, getting it, and throwing it in the garbage THEN having the audacity to ask for more.

[Kytim89]

What Nintendo should do is release these games in north America but in a limited quantity based on demand. Most of the cost of localization is already done, so all they have to do accomodate logisitics and they are done.

[NWR_insanolord]

It would be a good PR move without significant financial risk if Nintendo were to sell the game directly from their web site, allowing people to get the game without the hassles of importing, with Nintendo printing only as many copies as they sell. Just use the existing European localization, publicize the hell out of it through the gaming press, and make a bit of profit while also showing people that Nintendo listens to their fans.

[Chozo Ghost]

I remember people cheering when Reggie first took the stage at E3, 2004, and now everyone wants his head. Funny how things change...

Reggie was a flash in the pan. He liked to talk about kicking ass and taking names, but did any of that ever actually happen? NOA needs someone who not only talks about kicking ass, but actually goes out and does it.

[Ymeegod]

What kills me isn't the fact that NoA didn't want to translate the game but the fact their system is in a game DROUGHT and they have nothing lineup?  45 million+ WII in NA (more than the other two markets combined) yet it's the US that's getting the shaft?  As for sales, when it comes to RPGs the US market can surprise you (anyone recall ToS on the GC sales? 

I can see not getting a couple of these games that suck (Fragile comes to mind) but blocking Xenoblade and Last Story, two titles that scored 9's in Japan.   

[Ymeegod]

Here's a fun little fact--it terms of software sold the US is actually leading in the RPG:
http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=&publisher=&console=Wii&genre=RPG&minSales=0&results=50&sort=Total

You have to manual add Paper Mario sales (not sure why it's not counted as an RPG).

[broodwars]

/facepalm

Really? The guy doesn't release a bunch of niche games and he's suddenly unqualified for a job that no one did especially well until he was hired?

For me, it's more that he didn't release a bunch of niche games when he had **** all coming out for the Wii otherwise.  And despite their niche status, as I've stated before they could still have turned a profit for Nintendo of America because the vast majority of the localization costs were already paid by Nintendo of Europe.  Instead, Reggie spent the last year focusing almost exclusively on the 3DS (which, considering its failure for most of the year, doesn't inspire confidence in him).

That is why I have a great deal of respect for what Nintendo of Europe is doing: while Nintendo of America abandoned its fans and left the Wii brand for dead until Zelda's release, Nintendo of Europe has been taking risks and giving Wii owners something worthwhile to play during this long software drought.  And when you consider how much of a monetary risk NoE is taking localizing these games, it's pathetic that Reggie can't be bothered (so far) to piggyback on their hard work and give North American Wii owners the benefits of NoE's labors.

And I'm not going to apologize for not buying crap like Manhunt 2, a game that I was never interested in and turned out to be horrible.  It didn't deserve to be bought.  Sin & Punishment 2 was a good game as well, but I never got the impression that Nintendo of America really knew what to do with the game in marketing.  I did buy that game, though.

[Dasmos]

Haha god you people are idiots. Reggie isn't going anywhere. Look at where Nintendo was in 2004 to where they are now.

[Urkel]

[ejamer]

...
To say that Reggie doesn't know what core gamers want is absolutely ridiculous,
...

Really? So which is more core: Animal Crossing or GTA? Wii Fit or Smash Bros Brawl? New Super Mario Bros or Xenoblade? Reggie views them all the same: as numbers. He's a businessman who makes business decisions. Unfortunately I'm not an investor, so choosing to define "core games" as those that sell best doesn't work for me.


And if you really want to talk about core games that Reggie "released" that didn't sell, then be sure to mention that every other region managed to bring out more core gaming experiences. Maybe it wouldn't matter so much if there had been games release over the past 10 months... but Wii gaming has been dry as a bone.


If Nintendo is serious about providing more support for core gaming on Wii U then things need to change. Getting the face of North America to post Twitter comments about Dreamworks cartoon characters dancing to Thriller, 3D videos of Reggie's family, Hulu+, and Pushmo/Freakyforms aren't going to cut it.

[NWR_insanolord]

Reggie certainly knows what we want. Just because he doesn't always give it to us doesn't mean he doesn't know what it is. He makes decisions based on what he thinks will sell, not based on what a very vocal minority says they want.

[Chozo Ghost]

Although these games may be "niche", what exactly would they be competing against? Nothing. So niche or not, if there isn't anything else then they would win by default. If they were going up against 5 marios, 2 zeldas, and a partridge in a pear tree then yeah, they would probably get no notice whatsoever, but there's nothing else so it would be a bit harder for them to be ignored.

[marty]

I'd also like to point out that the GTA series didn't take off with GTA, it took two sequels and an expantion (maybe more) to take off as a franchise.  Call of Duty didn't explode until Modern Warfare (which was like the 7th or 8th CoD title).  The best thing companies can do to ensure they have a hit series is release as many quality titles as they can--Nintendo is refusing to do this.  There is ZERO chance for success by keeping a game out of market.  Nintendo is becoming more and more anti-gamer and it is and will continue to hurt them until they change their attitude.

[Adrock]

1. Releasing 3 niche titles that don't appeal to most gamers, let alone most Wii owners doesn't make the lack of games suddenly not a drought. They're a couple drops of water that don't satisfy the masses. Chances are people would still be complaining had these games been released because 3 games weren't 5 games or 10 or, more importantly, games they even wanted to play. This drought isn't even really Reggie's fault. NCL is ultimately in charge of all games in development and they clearly had very little planned for the Wii this year and next.

2. Localizing these games requires the most work in the process but shipping them out and marketing the games are the expensive parts. That's what NOA doesn't find worthwhile.

3. I don't see how Reggie could have done more with 3DS. He did the best he could with what Kyoto gave him. Again, misplaced blame.

4. +1 for insanolord. Reggie absolutely knows what gamers want. The sad truth is that most people don't care about these games, especially at this point in the console cycle. I'm disappointed that these games haven't been released but I'm hardly surprised that they haven't.

[Chozo Ghost]

Call of Duty didn't explode until Modern Warfare (which was like the 7th or 8th CoD title).

That was COD 4. Modern Warfare 3 will be COD 8. I miss the days when COD was set in WW2. Its been trapped in modern warfare hell for like 5 years now and its getting beyond old.

[broodwars]

That was COD 4. Modern Warfare 3 will be COD 8. I miss the days when COD was set in WW2. Its been trapped in modern warfare hell for like 5 years now and its getting beyond old.

No less old than World War 2 was as a setting before Modern Warfare released.  And I don't know how you can say that it's been "trapped in modern warfare hell for 5 years" when only 3 Call of Duties (counting this year) in the last 5 years have been set in modern times.  World At War was set during World War 2, and Black Ops took place at various times before and after the Vietnam War.

[Chozo Ghost]

That was COD 4. Modern Warfare 3 will be COD 8. I miss the days when COD was set in WW2. Its been trapped in modern warfare hell for like 5 years now and its getting beyond old.

No less old than World War 2 was as a setting before Modern Warfare released.  And I don't know how you can say that it's been "trapped in modern warfare hell for 5 years" when only 3 Call of Duties (counting this year) in the last 5 years have been set in modern times.  World At War was set during World War 2, and Black Ops took place at various times before and after the Vietnam War.

World at War was the last, but that came out in 2008 which okay was 3 years ago. But since 2005 or whenever COD 3 came out that's been the only COD game set in WW2, and WAW is very dated now. The COD series have moved forward in many ways with killstreaks and perks and so on which make it seem dated now. I want to see a return to the WW2 era using the advances and improvements that have been made to the series since then.

Black Ops is set in the late 1960s so it falls about halfway inbetween WW2 and Modern Warfare, but that's only in terms of the singleplayer campaign. The Multiplayer experience of Black Ops is probably more similar to Modern warfare than it is to WaW.

[Kytim89]

Didn't BlOps Wii sell farely well? If so, then if a game like that can sell with its bigger HD brothers on other consoles then surely Nintendo's own major production valued games can sell too.

[NWR_insanolord]

Didn't BlOps Wii sell farely well? If so, then if a game like that can sell with its bigger HD brothers on other consoles then surely Nintendo's own major production valued games can sell too.

Apples and oranges. Also, as much as some people don't want to admit it, there's a lot more of a market in the West right now for first person shooters than there is for JRPGs. COD will sell to a much wider crop of people than Xenoblade would.

[marty]

Call of Duty didn't explode until Modern Warfare (which was like the 7th or 8th CoD title).

That was COD 4. Modern Warfare 3 will be COD 8.

COD4 isn't the 4th COD game was what I was saying... finest hour, big red 1, plus 1,2,3, united offensive (i think was an expansion or a spin-off, maybe) and I think a psp title all came before MW... and now there are psp and DS games that aren't ports--but it took 7 or so games to come out before the series exploded.  Nintendo is giving itself ZERO chance at future sales and possible future blockbuster success by shelving games that are 99.9% paid for.