Author Topic: 3rd Party Support Already Starting to Look Up (Read 12918 times)

ThePerm · « **Reply #25 on:** November 15, 2005, 07:53:32 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Weak grafx... no HD... unique controller... lack of buttons... tiku tiku tiku! image..."

Well technically the Rev doesn't have a tiku tiku tiku! image yet. It looks pretty cool and hi-techy actually.

and it will have shooters

ruby_onix · « **Reply #26 on:** November 16, 2005, 02:00:37 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Well technically the Rev doesn't have a kiddy image yet. It looks pretty cool and hi-techy actually.

It is cooler than the Cube was at this point in it's lifespan. However, in this generation Nintendo seems to be intent on putting even less effort into maintaining their image than they did with the GameCube. And I think that's saying (and means) a lot.

I mean, Nintendo actually liked the handle. They thought the handle was cool. They were actually trying to make the console appealing to people.

But then again, maybe that's the key. Less "Nintendo" in the Rev means less "kiddy" in the Rev. Or maybe it's just how the real "cool" people are the ones who aren't trying to be cool (although that really doesn't always work). The Xbox360 and the PS3 are overdesigned. They're trying too hard.

Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
And it doesn't exactly have a lack of buttons, with the shell it actually has more. Making this the simpliest yet most complex controller ever.

With the analog nunchuck, the Rev has one button, and three triggers (because everyone always liked that part about the N64 and Cube's controllers, and told Nintendo it was the one thing about their design that was simple enough to attract non-gamers). And it (mercifully) has two-or-three "administrative" buttons.

That's the (already expanded) basic standard. I don't think we know enough about the shell to say that it won't be the next GameCube Broadband Adaptor. I'm not putting any faith into it.

vudu · « **Reply #27 on:** November 16, 2005, 08:00:38 AM »

I like the handle. You got a problem with that?

Michael8983 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 16, 2005, 08:33:41 AM »

As unique as the Rev's controller is, I think just about every respectable third-party is going to want to create at least one exclusive title to test the waters. They may not even mean for it to be exclusive but it would almost certainly have to be as I imagine a game built around the REV's controller would lose most of its appeal if ported to a competing console with a "normal" controller. Now IF these titles are well recieved, it would most certainly lead to a huge shake-up this coming generation. We'll see entirely new genres and franchises that will only be possible on the Rev. At least for a decent amount of time until the competitors find a way to work around Nintendo's copyright to make a similar but legally different enough controller with the same functions. But if things go Nintendo's way by then it will have carved out a sizeable portion of the third-party pie and will, for the first time since the SNES days, be able to use its first/second party titles as a true advantage in addition to great third-party titles as opposed to a substitution for them. If Nintendo does manage to get back the advantage it had in the pre-N64 days, it will be interesting to see just how major a player it will be even up against the likes the MS and Sony. Two competitors who have thus far only competed with Nintendo when it was at a major disadvantage starting with the N64 and its expensive carts and difficult development cycle which take most of the blame for the massive third-party exodus.

zakkiel · « **Reply #29 on:** November 16, 2005, 08:56:27 AM »

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That's the (already expanded) basic standard. I don't think we know enough about the shell to say that it won't be the next GameCube Broadband Adaptor. I'm not putting any faith into it.

, ah, the sweet tones of arbitrary skepticism. Honestly, just go buy an Xbox. Microsoft it putting thought into virtually nothing except their image. You should be delighted.

I have never given, and will never give, a damn about Nintendo's image, and have nothing but unadulterated contempt for those that do.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #30 on:** November 16, 2005, 09:07:43 AM »

"That's the (already expanded) basic standard. I don't think we know enough about the shell to say that it won't be the next GameCube Broadband Adaptor. I'm not putting any faith into it."

I think it depends on if they include it as a standard with every controller. Like both the remote and the shell are collectively considered the "controller" and neither part is sold seperately except for as replacements parts at Nintendo's online store. If the shell is just an accessory then, yeah, I have no faith that it will be used in any serious fashion at all. Nintendo themselves will probably NEVER use it for anything but the download service, unless the remote doesn't take off and they're forced to go back to the "old way". They consider this a new standard so they're going to use it like one. How often did they use the N64 d-pad? So if Nintendo doesn't use it no one else will unless it's included with every controller. When Nintendo doesn't use one of their own accessories it might as well be a paper weight.

JonLeung · « **Reply #31 on:** November 21, 2005, 08:44:57 AM »

If they include a shell that makes the controller seem more like a standard two-handed gamepad, then they may be sending mixed messages. Do they support a radical new way of controlling games, or do they say, "meh, use it if you want". I don't think it's very revolutionary if it's a merely an option.

I'm not saying they couldn't or wouldn't. I recall Nintendo themselves saying a shell was in the works. If they include it, it dilutes some of the revolutionary aspect of the controller. If it's not included, it won't be used much or ever be necessary in most games. Which may be fine in this case, actually...but then who would buy it? Unless a controller shell is like "training wheels" to learn how to use a simpler controller. Which also doesn't make sense. Errrgh.

Leave it to the third-party accessory makers to design the traditional controller shells, then. Though first-party ones should be designed for playing retro games on the virtual console...

Ian Sane · « **Reply #32 on:** November 21, 2005, 10:18:57 AM »

"meh, use it if you want"

I see it more as "Use it HOW you want. We at Nintendo feel it's important to provide options and let you the developers do whatever you want with whatever controller method you want. We encourage the use of our innovative new remote but if you feel that a more traditional design better suits your game's design then feel free to do so knowing that 100% of our userbase can play your game regardless of how you want to bring your vision to life."

It's called flexibility. It's why Sony is the market leader and Nintendo isn't. Nintendo's "our way is always the best do what we say" junk is exactly why their market share is so low and keeps dropping.

If the controller is so revolutionary and innovative third parties will WANT to use it so there's no harm in providing a flexible alternative. The N64 controller had both an analog stick (Nintendo's new method) and a d-pad (the old standard). Most games used the analog stick because it truly was a great idea (so much so that Sony redesigned their controller to include it) yet the d-pad was still there as an option and got used when appropriate. Removing the alternative to me suggests that their controller isn't that great of an idea so they have to force it down everyone's throats because otherwise no one would ever use it. Including the old method shows confidence in the new idea. It shows that Nintendo thinks it will succeed even when directly compared to the old method.

I think the message Nintendo sends to third parties will be based on the actual games they make over anything else. If Nintendo shows off some amazing games that use the remote then that will be enough to prove the concept and third parties will follow just like how Super Mario 64 sold the analog stick. They would only send a mixed message if they had both traditional and remote controlled games at launch and the traditional ones were WAY better than the remote ones.

Don'tHate742 · « **Reply #33 on:** November 21, 2005, 11:27:16 AM »

Ian, you think if Nintendo had it their way, a shell would be in existence right now?

Remember this is the same Nintendo that showed third parties the REV controller, then came back with the nunchuck attachment after a few outcries. They could give a damn about the shell. The only reason they would care is to allow compatibility with the Virtual Console. Strictly regarding next-gen games, they could give a damn.

However, it isn't up to Nintendo to say what's right and what's wrong. That's why a shell is essential. They know that third-parties would be pissed if they have to custom-tune the controls to the REV each time they wanted to port something. They'd rather not make the game then deal with it. Nintendo sees that as a big "no-no" and rightly made the solution.

Basically, Nintendo created the shell, for the most part, to stop any potential bitching or stupid reasons not to develope for the REV from surfacing.

Darkheart · « **Reply #34 on:** November 21, 2005, 11:35:15 AM »

Problem is, Nintendo has already agreed that they want to include the nunchuck with the remote. It would be murder to sales for them to release a shell, nunchuck, and remote for every controller purchase. As said before they would be sending mixed signals. Yet, like said before, if they did not include the shell, you would have to purchase one for 3rd parties who wouldnt want to use the revmote. So all in all its a pretty bad situation, and I want to see what Nintendo does about it.

kirby_killer_dedede · « **Reply #35 on:** November 21, 2005, 12:06:43 PM »

I don't think they said they'd include the nunchuck with the shell...I think they said they'd include the nunchuck with the console, along with a remote (obviously) and shell.

Michael8983 · « **Reply #36 on:** November 21, 2005, 12:16:30 PM »

I think the shell will likely work in conjunction with the "nunchuck" accessory. I mean the "nunchuck" is essentially just the left side of a standard controller complete with shoulder buttons. Creating a shell with a few more buttons (in addition to the ones the remote already has) and a more solid grip to transform the remote into a the standard right side of a controller would solve any problems. That would certainly be more cost-effective than creating an entire controller shell with its own analog stick and a dozen buttons. Publishers can simply include an icon on games showing what the preferred setup for each particular game is. I don't think that would overwhelm consumers. Lazy gamers could even keep the accessories attached full-time even if they're unneccessary and useless in some or most games.

Avinash_Tyagi · « **Reply #37 on:** November 21, 2005, 01:16:17 PM »

Whew, Ian's back to saying negative things about nintendo, for a second there I thought I had stumbled into some twisted alternate reality.

trip1eX · « **Reply #38 on:** November 21, 2005, 03:26:11 PM »

I think it's fairly obvious that the Revolution will be like the DS. While the 360 and the PS3 will be like the PSP.

The Revolution will have a unique user interface and be cheaper. The 360 and PS3 will have the multimedia stuff and better graphics and be more expensive.

Altho I think the games on the Revolution will look just as good as on the other consoles on a regular TV (unlike the DS vs PSP comparison) and the Revolution console itself will look as good or better than the other two (again unlike the DS vs PSP comparison.)

And like the DS the Revolution will get some flak for their weird interface (tho at the same time some aren't ripping on it as much yet because of how the DS is turning out) except with their new console I think Nintendo is going to launch some big titles a little sooner than they did on the DS.

I think Metroid Prime and SuperMario are definite Revolution launch titles. This is because I believe this titles have been in development for awhile now. SSBM I'm not sure about. According to some recent news that I've read that title was not underway until after E3. That doesn't give them much time to make a AAA Nintendo title.

slacker · « **Reply #39 on:** November 21, 2005, 03:37:15 PM »

Right now, I think the nunchuck setup is bogus. That string that is holding the two together has to be long enough for free movement, yet short enough so that the wires don't get tangled up. It should be wireless to begin with. Otherwise, I rather they bundle the shell with the remote, rather than just the nunchuck attachment. I don't think Nintendo has thought this through completely and by E3, we are definitely going to see some design changes to the controller setup. Although I like the controller's innovative features, I don't think Nintendo can execute the radical change cleanly, and thus will suffer for it. Until more details are released, I'm skeptical that Nintendo can move the industry to this new standard.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #40 on:** November 21, 2005, 03:53:41 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: slacker
Right now, I think the nunchuck setup is bogus. That string that is holding the two together has to be long enough for free movement, yet short enough so that the wires don't get tangled up.

People that have actually HELD the controller say that the wire is of perfect length...

Don'tHate742 · « **Reply #41 on:** November 21, 2005, 05:09:04 PM »

And even if it isn't at times, the nunchuck doesn't have a gyro, so moving wouldn't effect the game. So, you can move it as well to accomadate the super duper swipe or whatever your thinking you'll have to do.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #42 on:** November 22, 2005, 05:18:34 AM »

The wire looks to be the perfect length to me. Would a wireless solution be better? It has obvious advantages, but what I think is great about the existing setup is that there is exactly ONE way to reconfigure the controller. What scared me about a lot of people's ideas of transforming controllers and Lego controllers and touch screen controllers is that all of those could be extremely complicated. The beauty of Nintendo's current setup is that there is exactly one port to plug accessories in to. There's no question of what to do about that.

I don't see offering a traditional controller shell plus the nunchuck and the remote as being sooo expensive for Nintendo. As I understand it, accessories are actually a huge money maker for hardware manufacturers. I think Nintendo could pack all of that in for the price of a Wavebird while still making a profit.

Does anybody know if the analog attachment has rumble? For that matter, does the remote have rumble? I just assumed it did, but I don't know for sure.

NotSoStu · « **Reply #43 on:** November 22, 2005, 05:23:31 AM »

If I remember correctly, yes, the main controller unit has rumble. As for the analog attachment, I'm not sure, but judging by its' size I doubt it.

JonLeung · « **Reply #44 on:** November 22, 2005, 08:23:32 AM »

It should be possible. If they can fit force feedback in a GBA Game Pak, they should be able to fit it in the analog stick attachment if they really wanted to. Shouldn't they?

Oh, but I guess it would have to draw power from somewhere, though. I suppose a reason not to include force feedback is it would either require more batteries (making it bulkier) or it would have to draw energy from the main remote unit, which might not be efficient or something.

You know, I have no idea...

iMoron · « **Reply #45 on:** November 22, 2005, 11:08:29 AM »

Imaging... senario in game!

A game where you are using your flashligth... in an old house, in the game you can see your (virtual) arm holding the flashligth... sudenly in one corridor... a hand holds you arm in the game as the controller vibrates and the player screams like a girl... drops the controler... runs like crazy...

... If the game gets inmersive enought, that type of reaction is posible...

Asides from my off topic coment... Can anyone number the amount of developers interested in the Revolution?... I lost count...

Uglydot · « **Reply #46 on:** November 22, 2005, 11:10:28 AM »

Man, I can't remember the last time I used force feedback in a game. I could care less if they included it at all.

Although had you asked me this shortly after Starfox 64 came out, I would have claimed that no game should come without force-feedback, hah.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #47 on:** November 22, 2005, 11:31:55 AM »

Hey, rumble makes a great event cue in addition to other visual cues and sound effects. Rumbling helps remind me when my weapon is done charging up, while i'm busy analyzing the battlefield in Battalion Wars.

cubist · « **Reply #48 on:** November 23, 2005, 04:41:55 AM »

Back to UBISOFT and their FPS endeavors...Free Radical has just joined them.

Don'tHate742 · « **Reply #49 on:** November 23, 2005, 09:44:45 AM »

So I've heard.

The plot thickens.....

I read an article about it and its very interesting. The type of game they want to make is one where you make tough moral decisions based on instincts and cost and effect analysists. It's suppose to be very mature in that sense.

Nobody knows what type of game it's suppose to be (FPS, Adventure, etc.), but if they made a FPS I'd crap my pants. I dont know about you guys, but I think Ubisoft is a very competent developer, and we all know that Free Radical is as well. To see them join forces over what could be a REV game would be a dream come true. Whatever they produce, it'll be golded......maybe a killer-app even?

News:

Author Topic: 3rd Party Support Already Starting to Look Up (Read 12918 times)