Topic: Metal Gear on Wii (not an announcement)

[mantidor]

I completly hated Metal Gear Solid when I played it for the PC, its a horrible game and I don't see what the hell people see in this franchise. Stealth is done so much better in games like Thief.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: mantidor
I completly hated Metal Gear Solid when I played it for the PC, its a horrible game and I don't see what the hell people see in this franchise. Stealth is done so much better in games like Thief.

That is some pretty big hatred of the MGS games! Personally I think they are overrated but still quality games.

[Adrock]

I agree with GoldenPhoenix. The Metal Gear series is overrated, but they're still good games. Honestly, I think Zelda is overrated too. However, I still buy and enjoy the games. I'm sure Nintendo or many Wii owners wouldn't be too upset to have Metal Gear on the console.

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Galford wrote:
Pay close attention to what's not being shown.
Namely every Nintendo based Metal Gear ever made.

I doubt that's a sleight against Nintendo. The AC!D games are missing. With Substance (which includes Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2), every canonical game in the series are available in that anniversary package. I think that's the point of it... and to cash in before MGS4 comes out.

[BlackNMild2k1]

It could also be that MG and MG:SR is gonna come out on VC in the near future and they don't want to ruin the sales of those releases by re-releasing them here first.

[mantidor]

Maybe I should try to give it a second chance, but it was so boring I couldn't continue. MGS gave me the impression of endless sets of a grayish/greenish repetitive hue painted over squared rooms that never seem to end and they all look alike, with a completly lame stealth gameplay (its like the deku palace entrance in Majora's Mask, only that its not a five minute minigame but the whole damn game!) and a laughable story and acting. I know games overall have laughable stories, but MGS enphazizes into it way too much thinking the have something good when they don't, at first I was hoping it was some sort of satire, but no, they take their ridiculous storylines and cliched characters seriously! The footage I've seen of the other games looks to me like more of the same endless tear-inducing repetitiveness, if theres such a world, with more silly cutscenes.

Maybe it is really satire, with Kojima wanting Snake in Smash Bros and all, but is so well hidden it just gets lost.

[Terranigma Freak]

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Originally posted by: mantidor
Maybe I should try to give it a second chance, but it was so boring I couldn't continue. MGS gave me the impression of endless sets of a grayish/greenish repetitive hue painted over squared rooms that never seem to end and they all look alike, with a completly lame stealth gameplay (its like the deku palace entrance in Majora's Mask, only that its not a five minute minigame but the whole damn game!) and a laughable story and acting. I know games overall have laughable stories, but MGS enphazizes into it way too much thinking the have something good when they don't, at first I was hoping it was some sort of satire, but no, they take their ridiculous storylines and cliched characters seriously! The footage I've seen of the other games looks to me like more of the same endless tear-inducing repetitiveness, if theres such a world, with more silly cutscenes.

Maybe it is really satire, with Kojima wanting Snake in Smash Bros and all, but is so well hidden it just gets lost.

I... I LOVE YOU MAN!!!

[Kenology]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: mantidor
I completly hated Metal Gear Solid when I played it for the PC, its a horrible game and I don't see what the hell people see in this franchise. Stealth is done so much better in games like Thief.

That is some pretty big hatred of the MGS games! Personally I think they are overrated but still quality games.

I agree.   I think the MGS series is highly overrated but there's no denying the amount of polish and production values that go into the games.  My discontent with the franchise has more to do with it's design - A 12 hour game with only about 5 hours of gameplay and the rest being movies and codec speech is not my idea of fun.  I would like to see an MGS game on Wii though.

[oohhboy]

Well, atleast it isn't MG:Ac!d. The idea was cool, but it just doesn't work. With it's card based gameplay, it is too random to do any of the stealth stuff except for the first level or two. The card count limitations makes it hard to run n gun through he levels without purposefully spamming your deck to set yourself up.

Having brought and played MGS:TT and the original PSX version, I am not at all attached to the series. It was fun, but I wouldn't look forward to more of the same. The cutscenes were for most part fairly awesome though. I wonder when is some one is going to make an non-interactive game. Just hours and hours of game engine generated cutscenes.

[ThePerm]

having played the last splinter cell on regular xbox i remembered that had stellar graphics, and it looked pretty much like this gen graphics

[Terranigma Freak]

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My discontent with the franchise has more to do with it's design - A 12 hour game with only about 5 hours of gameplay and the rest being movies and codec speech is not my idea of fun. I would like to see an MGS game on Wii though.

LOL, 5 hours of gameplay? You probably spend 2 of those 5 gameplay hours standing around waiting for the guard/camera to turn the other way.

[oohhboy]

It looked alright most of the time, but really, it got away with it because everything was so dark. When you can't see anything, you can throw away alot of the details. Also, most of the game was fairly confined.

[Svevan]

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Originally posted by: ShyGuy
MGS4 will have none of that. It will however have seven hours of HD video that fills up the bluray disc.

None of the previous MGS games have featured full motion video cutscenes - the cinemas were completed using the in-game engine, save some opening title sequences. So, the cutscenes will take up as much space as Zelda's.

As for all the MGS hate, since we're not really defending our statements much, let me throw out my unqualified opinion: Metal Gear Solid is one of the best games ever made. Those who measure games based on how much they get to play need to step back and re-evaluate their priorities when playing a game. Those who want only "fun" in games probably only go see movies like Spider-Man 3, Pirates 3, and Shrek 3, and read Danielle Steele, Tom Clancy, or Dan Brown. Art isn't measured in fun and enjoyment; games aren't measured by amount of gameplay time.

[ShyGuy]

Zelda had seven hours of cutscenes? in HD?

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Art isn't measured in fun and enjoyment

Art is measured in the feeling of superiority one gets from looking down on the simple, stupid sheep.  

[IceCold]

*sigh* Why do I disagree with Svevan so much?

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Originally posted by: Svevan
As for all the MGS hate, since we're not really defending our statements much, let me throw out my unqualified opinion: Metal Gear Solid is one of the best games ever made. Those who measure games based on how much they get to play need to step back and re-evaluate their priorities when playing a game. Those who want only "fun" in games probably only go see movies like Spider-Man 3, Pirates 3, and Shrek 3, and read Danielle Steele, Tom Clancy, or Dan Brown. Art isn't measured in fun and enjoyment; games aren't measured by amount of gameplay time.

I've said this before, but man.. you really need to find another medium to force your views on. You're trying to find things in games that just aren't there, or are present in a tiny fraction of them.

Let's talk about Metal Gear Solid. It's interesting that you mentioned Dan Brown. I agree with you wholeheartedly about him, by the way.. The Da Vinci Code reads like it was written by an eleventh grader who inexplicably used text plagiarised from a history book in the dialogue.

But the thing is.. MGS is as bad, if not worse. Do you honestly think that the story is a brilliant piece of prose? Well, it's not. In actuality, it's a laughably bad, pretentious, pseudo-intellectual "political commentary" which doesn't deserve that title. And the worst part is that the games take themselves so seriously, as if they are actually bringing something to the table. Like mantidor said, it's unintentional satire.

I don't want games to become like Metal Gear. I don't want games that sacrifice gameplay for presentation, like you apparently do. Most of the time, when this happens, everything in the game deteriorates in quality. Again, look to paintings or movies or books for the things you want, Svevan. I enjoy the occasional game which actually gets the presentation right (like Eternal Darkness), but in general, Miyamoto's philosophy on gaming is far and away the best one.

You see, in a Mario game if you see it, you can reach it. If you imagine it, you can do it. And that matters to me infinitely more than the story or any "art" in the game.

PS: The thing that I took the most offense to (like I think ShyGuy did) was your implied superiority when talking about the people who watch Spider-Man 3 and read Danielle Steele. That was uncalled for.

But since you wrote it, I had to use the Metal Gear example to show you how flawed your argument was, plus how other people can sh*t on your tastes too.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Icecold is right Evan, you do sometimes come across as "superior", people find fulfillment out of different things. So you think MGS is some great piece of artwork, good for you, but don't expect everyone to feel the same way, some of us for some indescribable reason actually find PLAYING games more rewarding than watching them . In regards to movies, so what if someone finds Spider-man 3 or Shrek 3 fulfilling? It doesn't make their tastes any less defined than yourself. Just because someone doesn't find pleasure in reading or watching "deeper" stuff, does not make their viewing habits less than your own. Books fall under the same category, it once again depends on the reader, if they get satisfaction from reading authors like those that you listed, that is great, if you get satisfaction from reading, I dunno, "Big Words, Pompous writing style" author X, great for you. I know I've read books on that level you listed and have found some wonderful things that make me think.

[ShyGuy]

I donno if I took offense really, just exception. Evan is so much fun disagree with on the message boards.

[Smoke39]

Svev, wouldn't you say that the degree to which a work of art utilizes its medium is part of what determines its quality?  What makes games unique is their interactivity.  It's possible that a good movie might masquerade as a game.  In that case, you could call it a good movie, but not a good game.  For a game to be good, it needs to take advantage of the interactivity the medium allows.  I.e., it needs gameplay.  Otherwise it isn't really a game at all.

Having said that, I liked MGS, despite some cut-scenes dragging on too long.  I haven't played any of the later MGS games, though.

[mantidor]

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Originally posted by: Svevan


As for all the MGS hate, since we're not really defending our statements much, let me throw out my unqualified opinion: Metal Gear Solid is one of the best games ever made. Those who measure games based on how much they get to play need to step back and re-evaluate their priorities when playing a game. Those who want only "fun" in games probably only go see movies like Spider-Man 3, Pirates 3, and Shrek 3, and read Danielle Steele, Tom Clancy, or Dan Brown. Art isn't measured in fun and enjoyment; games aren't measured by amount of gameplay time.

This is funny, because I think MG is in line with that hollywood crap, plus a huge dose of pretentiousness. If you are going to compare its story with any decent book or movie it completly fails, and as a game is also mediocre, because its gameplay gets old fast. Sometimes gameplay, even if its simple, can make generic stories seem interesting, and thats why I loved all those adventures games for the PC like phantasmagoria and the 7th guest, but it doesn't work in MG at all. Besides, I think that a game, above all, has to be fun, and I don't care if that make games art or not. Also art itself, even if its not fun all the time, it has to be at least interesting to be good, it has to make you look, to turn your head, and MG doesn't do that, for me anyway.

 

[Svevan]

Ice, Phoenix: I hope you weren't THAT offended. I'm trying to challenge some ideas, not give an air of superiority. Forgive me for that. I'll reply to the topic later.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Svevan
Ice, Phoenix: I hope you weren't THAT offended. I'm trying to challenge some ideas, not give an air of superiority. Forgive me for that. I'll reply to the topic later.

Yeah like the idea that if you like fun, you don't appreciate art because you indulge in "simple" things.

[UltimatePartyBear]

I got Twin Snakes dirt cheap.  I didn't make it through the first room before I quit in frustration.  First, I was spotted by a guard that I couldn't see or otherwise infer the presence of (edit:  actually, I remember the radar now, but my memory of the event is fuzzy; it's not the basis of the complaint, anyway).  Then, when I beat him to the ground, I couldn't take his weapon to kill the rest.  Then he stood up again and kept shooting me.  Then I realized they'd all forget I was ever there if I just waded out into the water.

I've played games that required stealth and enjoyed them, but when I do get discovered, I want things to play out just a bit more realistically than that.  My interest in any other games in this series couldn't even be measured with an electron microscope.  

[Kairon]

Surely YOU of all people Svevan can see that Kojima is stretching for artistic significance, as if he wanted to be a modern day Kurosawa?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Art isn't automatically good for the game since art itself doesn't have to be "good" to anybody.

And Twin Snakes...

It's sad when I fondly look back at a $50 piece of software because of its awesome cutscenes and not its gameplay.

What makes it worse is the disconnect between the physical reality of the universe within the cutscenes versus the reality of the gameplay.  A lot of the super-mad-sick-wicked things in the cutscenes didn't translate into the real game.  Snake and Ninja and all the other characters did amazing things during cinematics, but once the REAL GAME took over, it was all stripped down to stiff, grounded, "meh" brawler or sneaky combat.

"Why show me all that cool junk when we don't really get to do that in the game?"

[Kairon]

Sounds like Kojima has run smack up against a ghastly truth: games are not movies.

[Smash_Brother]

Something that should be noted is that Nintendo never does anything for free (which is just sound business practice).

3rd parties who want their characters in Brawl need to come to Nintendo, not the other way around, which makes it a "favor" situation.

MGS:TS was developed via Nintendo's resources because they got Konami to make a Mario DDR game (which sold surprisingly well) in return for the favor.

Adding Snake to Brawl likewise did not come without a price, I'm sure of it. Whether it's another MGS game on the Wii is anyone's guess, but Kojima owes Nintendo. That much is certain.