Topic: Comparing Wii U's Sales to GameCube, Wii

[Adrock]

I want Mop it Up, Uncle Bob and Adrock to back up their side, you love the wii u> WHY?

You're welcome to peruse my post history if you want.

Did you get your clarification on that?

No. Not really. You just quoted an obvious joke post meant to illustrate the repetitive nature of these arguments.

I just take issue with the "HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE NINTENDO ON A NINTENDO-CENTRIC WEBSITE" attitude.

I really hope this isn't addressed to me because I feel like I've been abundantly clear on this.

[smallsharkbigbite]

No. Not really. You just quoted an obvious joke post meant to illustrate the repetitive nature of these arguments.

It was funny, just grabbed your first quote.  I could have grabbed several of your other posts which weren't jokes and clearly blamed one side for this cluster and said we should target them with attacks. Like I said I generally like that you are balanced, but I don't think you've been on this thread.  You haven't been drawn into a back and forth argument about specific points, but you've not added much that is helpful in this thread and your side is clear so it's hard to pretend you are neutral.  If you want this and other threads like it to end,

This whole unending debate is pointless.

.  That's all you really had to say, not pick and root for a sick. 

[Mop it up]

Firstly, I never said nor implied that I love the Wii U, and even in this thread, I said I was conflicted about it. But I s'pose I need to make that post a few more times for it to not be ignored. Heck, I haven't seen a single person here who denies the problems of the Wii U and blindly loves everything that Nintendo do, and I have no idea where anyone gets an impression like that. When these sort of ridiculous generalisations pop up, I see little reason to say much.

Secondly, it isn't my job to convince anyone to buy a Wii U. That's Nintendo's duty and they aren't doing a good job of that. So I say the same thing as Arbock: check our posting history or go look through other sections. Everyone have difference preferences and one system can't please everyone. If one doesn't like something from Nintendo, they can state their piece and move on. It'd be nice if that last part happened more often...

[Adrock]

It was funny, just grabbed your first quote.  I could have grabbed several of your other posts which weren't jokes and clearly blamed one side for this cluster and said we should target them with attacks. Like I said I generally like that you are balanced, but I don't think you've been on this thread.  You haven't been drawn into a back and forth argument about specific points, but you've not added much that is helpful in this thread and your side is clear so it's hard to pretend you are neutral.

Whether you think I've remained neutral here is really beside the point. Obviously, I disagree, but more importantly, I'd really appreciate if you would kindly not twist my words around. I never said we should target anyone with attacks. The following seems to be what you're referring to so I'll elaborate.

Attacking just one side of the argument isn't going to solve the problem. 

Targeting the source of the problem might.

You used the word "attack" while I carefully chose the word "target" in that I am holding the anti-Nintendo side responsible for constantly driving discussions in that direction. That is hardly a call to arms, nor is it me absolving the other side for continuing the back and forth. It seems to me that the easiest way to solve the problem of these never-ending arguments is if we didn't have them in the first place. Since we're all aware of Nintendo's shortcomings, it would be super-fantastic if they weren't repeatedly brought up in so many threads. See? Target the source, nip the argument in the bud before it even blooms. Will it work? It might.

I haven't added much to this thread though I don't think anyone else has either due to the pointlessness of the discussion itself. However, in my defense, I've mainly been responding when me or my posts have implicitly been addressed. Such as:

So I say the same thing as Arbock

Oh wait, that isn't about me.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

I guess I misunderstood the argument then, for that I do apologize. I guess we can all agree Nintendo made us this way so maybe we can get a class action suit going then.

[UncleBob]

I want Mop it Up, Uncle Bob and Adrock to back up their side, you love the wii u> WHY? Explain it to me why it is so great, I already gave my reasons why it's not.

Sorry dude.  I'm too busy playing games on my Wii U to spend time rehashing the same arguments that's been on this website since the GameCube days.  It's not worth my time to repeat them over and over.  But you go right on ahead repeating the same arguments from the other side.  I'll just be here playin' mah video games.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

but thats the point, the Game Cube was a different scenario I already said I loved the Game Cube how is that relevent here? I could defend the GC all day long, I can't find anything to like about Wii U so it's not the same argument obviously

[UncleBob]

Argument: "Nintendo doesn't cater to my wants."

Response: "Go buy something else."

That is the same argument that has been hashed and rehashed since the GameCube days in some form or another.  I'm just not interested in it again.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

By this same point in time the Game Cube already had a library more than twice that of the Wii U and still was churning out major third party exclusives, by this point in time the Game Cube was still riding the hype train it had a year to go before Xbox stole it's thunder and moved past.

The only complaints I had about Game Cube were not playing DVD's and that was not a deal breaker for me. Wii U has at most five first party games that I might be interested in. Now even if you personally like the other what is it, four that are out that I don't care for, that is what nine games, please tell me you did not spend $350 bucks on a game console for less than 10 games. By this same point in Game Cubes life it was still getting all the major third party support minus the Sony faithful who were still drowning in Playstation money.



I am serious this is an entirely NEW discussion because first this is not the same as game Cube obviously and second um I wasn't here for that and third I LOVED the Game Cube and still do.


Even the people here who still support the Wii U bitch about the game selection, and the lack of features, it's almost like, to me, you just bought it because it was made by Nintendo and you don't care if it doesn't produce the experiences you want, or you have grown to believe you don't miss those experience despite likely still enjoying them on DS/3DS while shrugging them off on Wii U? If that is not true please tell me otherwise because I am dying to know why it is the same as owning a Game Cube when I don't see it that way at all, especially since looking back at my library that I had on Game Cube there are hardly any of those games anywhere to be found on the Wii U.


Right now it has Pikmin 3, Zombie U (as far as I know the only major if not only 3rd party exclusives), it has 2 New Super mario games people here have talked trash about, a Wind Waker HD remake, and a new DKC and a new 3D mario and what two Sonic games again people here **** all over. So enlighten me how spending money on a machine that has so few games is worth that kind of money? The Wii had games, I will give it that, but they were increasingly more casual and less the kinds of games I was into, all that aside at least it had support, it had games, Wii U has none of that, even the first year of Wii was better than all of Wii U till now.


I just don't see how saying you liked the Game Cube is enough to say you like Wii U when I LOVED the Game Cube too, somehow it's not resonating apparently.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

Argument: "Nintendo doesn't cater to my wants."

Response: "Go buy something else."

That is the same argument that has been hashed and rehashed since the GameCube days in some form or another.  I'm just not interested in it again.

Thats bull ****, the game cube did cater to my wants, the Wii U is not, I am curious what you like about it, seriously just name me ten games that make it worth owning, because that is why you like it right to play games, or is it you just like Nintendo and HOPE they will maybe eventually release a game or two twice a year? It is not the same GAME CUBE HAD GAMES.

[Ian Sane]

Within this pissing match a good point was made:

What I think is interesting is that Sony is "winning" right now by using Nintendo's playbook. That being, "provide games that appeal to everyone".  Nintendo's various decisions have pretty much backed them into the corner of their systems appealing to existing Nintendo fans and few others (with the sales numbers backing that up).

"Nintendo makes games for everyone" is a historical reputation that I think Nintendo has lost sight of.  I think their rep is more "games for the lowest common denominator" but I think that comes from a desire to make games for everyone but with Nintendo getting lost somewhere along the way.  On the N64 Nintendo often got accused of making kiddy games and while that wasn't a completely fair image, they did seem to have this mistaken assumption that because a kid-friendly game CAN be enjoyed by everyone that it appeals to everyone.  The idea that teenagers and adults might not want to play games with cutesy visuals didn't cross their minds.

This mistaken assumption continued with them expanding their audience to casuals.  They saw it as expansion, many more experienced gamers saw it more as a switch to a new audience.  Nintendo thinks a game like Wii Sports appeals to everyone because it has a low barrier of entry.  They don't pick on the fact that a more experienced gamer might find the game dull because it lacks depth and complexity.

The Wii and Wii U are both designed to, at least in theory, have a low barrier of entry.  The low specs are to offer a cheap product.  The wacky controllers are to make up for the diminished specs and offer a control scheme that is theoretically more intuitive to inexperienced players.  They're making the mistaken assumption that a low barrier of entry is the same thing as making a product for everyone because anyone can play it.  The problem is they're really making a beginner or casual product, the videogame equivalent of those Squire guitars you can buy in a box at Wal-Mart.  They're ironically being TOO inclusive where their product actually becomes more specialized to a specific audience.

But Sony gets this "everyone" approach and unlike Nintendo seems to know how to actually implement it.  And it makes sense that they would figure this out because they had "everyone" consoles with the PS1 and PS2 and then screwed it all up by making the PS3 more of a luxury item.  Once the price came down it became more of an "everyone" product and bounced back.  They screwed up and they learned.  The "everyone" console is a great idea and is exactly what Nintendo should make but they don't know how to implement that strategy correctly anymore.

[UncleBob]

GameCube had games you wanted.
Wii U doesn't.

So... buy something that has games you want.  What is so hard to understand about that?

I could list off the Wii U games I've purchased and what I like about them.  I could go into detail about the downloadable stuff that I've bought and enjoyed.  I could go on and on and rehash everything that's already out there in reviews, news articles, other forum posts... but none of it is going to change your mind.

Do I think the Wii U is a wonder machine that everyone should own and you're stupid if you don't and it's perfect for everything and everyone?  No.  Are there issues with the machine, the marketing and beyond?  Sure.  Does it suit *my* wants more than a PS4 and an XBox One?  Yes.  And that's why I bought it and that's why I'm happy with it.

If it's not giving you what you want (either because your tastes have changed or because you think Nintendo has changed) - then don't buy one.  Buy a PS4 or XBox One.  But don't sit there and act like I'm in the wrong because I enjoy my Wii U and that I owe you some kind of explanation as to why I enjoy it.  I owe you nothing.

Buy the system that gives you what you want.  Play games on that system.  Be happy with the games you're playing.  It's that easy.

I liked the soda Josta.  It was my favorite soda of all time.  I would seriously do a happy dance if Pepsi brought it back.  But they haven't and they're not going to.  Now, I could deny myself any soda because Pepsi isn't providing me with what I want.  I could go on Pepsi-websites and write multi-paragraph rants about how Pepsi isn't the company they used to be because they don't provide me with what I want.  But I don't.  I find something that serves my wants in the place of Josta, drink it, and be happy.  Am I as happy as I would be with a nice, cold Josta?  No.  But I'm much happier than I would be if I denied myself any soda or if I spent all my time focused on negative things like not having Josta.

Argument: "Nintendo doesn't cater to my wants."

Response: "Go buy something else."

[smallsharkbigbite]

-@Adrock, I didn't twist your words.  I've been very clear that I think your reply #99 was an attacking thread that incited several responses including mine.


I must be missing the joke in that post because you continue to argue you are the victim here, so I guess I'm the inciter. 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Wii U is a sales turd, but slightly less of one than you make out. GameCube had shipped 9.5 million through _March_, while Wii U was at nearly 6 million through _December_. We don't have a number for Wii U through March yet, and back in 2003 they weren't reporting numbers every quarter so we don't have GameCube through December either.

[NWR_Neal]

Wii U is a sales turd, but slightly less of one than you make out. GameCube had shipped 9.5 million through _March_, while Wii U was at nearly 6 million through _December_. We don't have a number for Wii U through March yet, and back in 2003 they weren't reporting numbers every quarter so we don't have GameCube through December either.

That's what we said in the original article that this comments thread is attached to.

To be more specific, Wii U sold 5.86 million units as of December 2013. By estimates, they might/maybe/possibly could be around 6 million units as of March 31, 2014.

We do know that Wii U has sold, at best, somewhere in the ballpark of 200k units in North America in Jan through Mar. That's likely the best-selling region for the system. I'll be surprised if the Wii U crosses 6m for the entire fiscal year.

[NWR_Lindy]

Within this pissing match a good point was made

Lord knows I tried to derail this thread back onto something that wasn't a pissing match.

I think Nintendo's philosophy of "making games for everyone" still stands. However, they only apply it to their own games and have lost sight of the fact that other companies (third-parties) can help them in this way as well. Too much navel-gazing and inward-looking from them (and that extends to other boats that they've missed over the past decade, like the rise of online multiplayer and smartphone anything).

[Mop it up]

The GameCube was a disappointment for me. Super Smash Brothers Melee and Metroid Prime are about the only two games that made it worth owning, and without them I would have regretted buying one and probably would have sold it off. I've come to appreciate it a bit more in retrospect, but it's still one of my least-favourite systems.

The Wii U may be a similar case, though. Mario Kart 8 is the reason I have one, and to a lessor extent the new Smash Brothers. The reason I bought one early was because I won some extra money from a casino, so I figured I'd play a few other games on the system in the mean time.

I've mainly been responding when me or my posts have implicitly been addressed. Such as:

So I say the same thing as Arbock

Oh wait, that isn't about me.

Oh, I'm sorry. I guess the "r" and the "d" are a little too close together... Except wait, that's a "b." Maybe I was thinking of the user Arbok? Hm, I'm probably just making it worse by explaining...

[pokepal148]

And as much as I don't want to stir this pot up:
http://tay.kotaku.com/dreamcast-outsells-wii-u-by-at-least-one-metric-1565298837

[smallsharkbigbite]

I think Nintendo's philosophy of "making games for everyone" still stands.

I think sometimes they apply it to their own detriment.  I.E. MK8 not having in game chat.  That's pretty much standard for every system.  There concern is obviously kids hearing things they shouldn't hear.  That's a valid concern, but they should have more parental lock features that can remove chat for children rather than strip a feature that a large portion of people would like.  You could make it the default off feature for parents that are too lazy to set up a game, but ultimately if parents decide they don't care if their 8 year old hears all that is going to be said on the internet then there isn't much you can do.  Nintendo can't be a parent for the parent. 


I also think making games for everybody may require multiple games to satisfy the demands of all groups.  I.E. Eternal Darkness.  That game was awesome and I'd love to see a sequel but current day Nintendo seems unlikely to try another game similar to that.  Tastes are just too unique nowadays to expect more than a few types of games to really target everybody.  I'd like to see Nintendo say yeah, we have some games that target everybody, but we also want to strive to satisfy people that want games that have more unique demands too.   

[Ian Sane]

I think sometimes they apply it to their own detriment.  I.E. MK8 not having in game chat.  That's pretty much standard for every system.  There concern is obviously kids hearing things they shouldn't hear.  That's a valid concern, but they should have more parental lock features that can remove chat for children rather than strip a feature that a large portion of people would like.  You could make it the default off feature for parents that are too lazy to set up a game, but ultimately if parents decide they don't care if their 8 year old hears all that is going to be said on the internet then there isn't much you can do.  Nintendo can't be a parent for the parent. 

That's a great example.  Even if they're thinking that Mario Kart is a kid-friendly series, and it is and should remain so, they don't have a more grown-up racing series that isn't concerned about protecting kids.  There is no Nintendo equivalent of Gran Turismo or Forza Motorsport.  They have F-Zero but that doesn't sell like Mario Kart so they don't bother with that anymore.  They could be excused for playing down to the lowest common denominator in their more family-friendly games IF they offered more games for older audiences but they don't.  So Mario Kart isn't the kids racing game with the restrictive voice chat it's the "everyone" racing game that's supposed to also be for adults but forces them to deal with restrictions as if they were also kids.

[NWR_insanolord]

I think it's pretty ridiculous to attribute the lack of in-game voice chat in Mario Kart to a desire to protect kids. I'm pretty sure they could run into whatever worst-case scenario you want to come up with in the pre-game lobbies. If anything, that would be worse, because there's no pesky gameplay to distract everyone from that kind of thing.

[smallsharkbigbite]

I thought lobbies were friend code only chat minimizing risk of a children hearing things they shouldn't. Honestly I'm open to ideas on why it wasnt included, but I can only come up with protecting children. It also seems consistent with other Nintendo decisions to me.

Black ops 2 does in game chat on the Wii U so it is certainly possible. Is your thought Nintendo is lazy or doesn't think it's important?  Among the list of available choices I don't think children is ridiculous.

[NWR_insanolord]

I was saying that it doesn't make sense to say that's why it's in the lobbies but not during gameplay. Limiting it to friends is likely at least somewhat due to that. Honestly, I'd probably never want to voice chat with people I didn't already know, so that's not really relevant to me.

[smallsharkbigbite]

Having moved several hours from some of my best friends it would be very appealing to me. Heck, I usually only get about an hour of time after I put my kids to bed so it would be appealing for my local friends too.

[NWR_Lindy]

Honestly, I'd probably never want to voice chat with people I didn't already know, so that's not really relevant to me.

For me, that's the irony of it: Wii U is the platform where I have BY FAR the most people I'd like to voice chat with.