Topic: Sony bashing = laughing at a handicapped kid...

[Smash_Brother]

...an evil, imperialistic handicapped kid, yes, but handicapped, nonetheless.

Seriously, I used to revel in their failings because it meant better things for Nintendo, but now, with the most recent news that only 10-20% of cell processors manufactured will actually work, (thanks to BigJim for the link), it's all just too much for me to comment on anymore.

Was this their intention? To make such an assclown of the entire company that we eventually just couldn't laugh any harder at them?

Every piece of bad news just gets worse and worse. At this point, I've nothing left to say. It's all been said: their imminent problems are plain and obvious to even the most pedestrian of observers. Tearing Sony down is too easy. Before, you had to make a compelling argument as to why Sony was going to do poorly. Now, it's like citing common knowledge: you're perfectly safe in saying it because you won't hear a murmur of protest at its mention.

It's grown old for me. Bad news for them is so commonplace that I don't even react anymore.

Anyone else feeling the same way?

[UltimatePartyBear]

Last night I saw one of the Chappelle's Show lost episodes in which Dave went back to a club he had been banned from early in his career and found the owner in a wheelchair.  The owner expressed great sorrow and said he'd always known Dave would succeed.  Dave acted moved as he said, "Thank you," and then with an evil grin, "for making this so much sweeter!"  Then he shoved the guy down the stairs and blew the place up.

I think there are going to be plenty of people that feel the same way about Sony.

[vudu]

Maybe they think if we laugh hard enough we'll all drop dead like the Weasels from Who Framed Roger Rabbit?.

[JonLeung]

That chip yield thing was mentioned in another thread...if only 10-20% of them work, it makes me feel leery as to how long those'll function once put into a PS3.  I don't know much about chip manufacturing, like if chip failures are a common thing after the initial check after the manufacturing phase or whatever but if I was putting down several hundred dollars for something, I wouldn't want it to sound like a gamble.

Also, as I said in the other thread, there are more bad news about Sony lately than any kind of Wii news. it's actually pretty sad for Sony.

We take all this news as doom and gloom for Sony because they're sitting on top of the gaming world right now and any news about them screwing up is more likely to make headlines than any successes of theirs.  But yes, at this rate, it does seem like they're totally clueless, or almost deliberately trying to fail.

(Maybe Sony is actually run now by Nintendo fans, and the only way for them to get out of the business is to royally screw up their own console...well, they're on the same path as if they were, it seems.)

The casual gamer, who, dare I say, likely makes up most of the PlayStation userbase, probably doesn't care about all this stuff - yet.  Lawsuits?  Bad chip yields?  Taking out loans?  Who cares?  But when it trickles down to something they can actually see once the console comes out - like the price of the console, the price of the games, the fun that can be had on the competition...and I don't think anyone thinks the move to Blu-Ray or even HD-DVD is worth it yet.

I predict that the PS3 might do well for about a year.  I don't know if Sony'll be #1, it's possible that they won't be, but I do think they will still sell a fair number for the first little while.  I'm sure there are early adopters who still think Sony will be king.  Sales probably won't be as good as Sony will hope - and the price will slow people down - giving them time to see what the compeition has to offer.  After that first year, by Christmas 2007, I don't think PlayStation will be the "cool" brand anymore.

[Spak-Spang]

This biggest problem with this is until the yields are higher Sony will be low on product demand if the PS3 sales well.  Also, it means if chips fail in the actual units it will mean Sony is using units that they could sale to replace broken PS3s.  Look at the Xbox360 problems.

However, I am sure Sony realizes that they can't wait another 6 months they probably need to iron everything out with their Cell processors and manufactoring of the PS3.  They need to launch NOW.  

So I am sure they hope that this won't hurt them at launch and when manufactoring rates pick up they will be able to pump more product to the consumer.  

This whole thing scares me though.  Used to be, you could buy a new system day one and be ok.  (Gameboy, Genesis, SNES, NES, Nintendo DS, Nintendo 64, Sega Master System, Atari)  But now, the trend is that you should wait a year to make sure all production problems are ironed out after product launch.  

[nemo_83]

Sony is either about to jump off a cliff on a clear and sunny day or they are going to delay this POS.

[Kairon]

Don't weep for Sony. Weep for the third parties who will lose millions of dollars when their $15 million+ development budget games only have an install base of <1 million early adopters who can't afford to buy more than 2 games now that they dropped $500 or $600 dollars.

... then rejoice when those poor third parties shift their attention to Wii! ... or yowl in utter terror as Microsoft gains their support and turns videogames into Windows Vista-land.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung  But when it trickles down to something they can actually see once the console comes out - like the price of the console, the price of the games, the fun that can be had on the competition...and I don't think anyone thinks the move to Blu-Ray or even HD-DVD is worth it yet.

IMHO, the "strength of the PS brand name" is directly cancelled out by the "OMFG $600 price tag!!!".

In fact, I'm sure there will likely be millions of occurrences where a person who previously owned a Sony console will go to the store to buy a new PS3, learn that the thing is $600, and be completely and utterly put off.

Without Sony cutting the price down to $300, I can't see it succeeding for any length of time. Even the legendary Sony brand name will be smothered by the fact that most people won't be able to justify the price of the thing or might not be able to afford it at all.

Then, there are the parents who will go to the store come Xmas, see $600 as a price and immediately seek an alternative console.

[skyfire]

Quote
This whole thing scares me though. Used to be, you could buy a new system day one and be ok. (Gameboy, Genesis, SNES, NES, Nintendo DS, Nintendo 64, Sega Master System, Atari) But now, the trend is that you should wait a year to make sure all production problems are ironed out after product launch.

It's no surprise those are all Cart based systems that are the most reliable and I assume easy to manufacture.
Nothing against disc based media but damn, the flaws are just unacceptable.

[JonLeung]

Quote
Originally posted by: skyfire

Quote
This whole thing scares me though. Used to be, you could buy a new system day one and be ok. (Gameboy, Genesis, SNES, NES, Nintendo DS, Nintendo 64, Sega Master System, Atari) But now, the trend is that you should wait a year to make sure all production problems are ironed out after product launch.

It's no surprise those are all Cart based systems that are the most reliable and I assume easy to manufacture.
Nothing against disc based media but damn, the flaws are just unacceptable.

I'm really surprised that in the first batch of Xbox 360s, it wasn't a surprise if it scratched up your DVDs.  When that kind of thing is almost normal, you know some Quality Control people are slacking.

I don't know if it's because I take care of my things (or at least am not reckless with them), but all of my Nintendo hardware is still fully functional.

I like those old Nintendo Power Player's Pulse letters section when people talk about flushing their Game Boys down the toilet, dropping them off cliffs, leaving them in a fire, etc., and then they're still working fine.

I think the worst thing that ever happened to me with Nintendo hardware was getting a DS Lite a couple weeks ago, finding a dead pixel, and then having to go back to the store to exchange it.  Other than that, no problems here.

[Caliban]

This low yield info isn't bad news, that is if you heard a perfect explanation of what it is and its implications. I'm not gonna explain because I don't have the patience right now, but I will say that this low yield will only affect the number of PS3 available at launch and even so at a low risk.

If you want to know where I got informed, then please listen to podcast #96, time 8:30, from http://www.vgmfusion.com/ . Ryan gave a perfect explanation, at least based from the prior info I already had before listening to them.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
This low yield info isn't bad news, that is if you heard a perfect explanation of what it is and its implications. I'm not gonna explain because I don't have the patience right now, but I will say that this low yield will only affect the number of PS3 available at launch and even so at a low risk.

If you want to know where I got informed, then please listen to podcast #96, time 8:30, from http://www.vgmfusion.com/ . Ryan gave a perfect explanation, at least based from the prior info I already had before listening to them.

It's still bad news for Sony Caliban. You can't use a Cell processor with less than 7 (out of functioning SPEs in a PS3. It isn't useless, you can use that chip in, say, a cell phone or dvd player, but not in the PS3.

And then there's the question of, ok, let's say that Sony takes that 10-20% (doubled to 20-40% if you use logica redundancies...which they should be using) and uses those in PS3's. What if one of your SPE's blow? That's fine if you got an 8 SPE Cell chip... but... what if you were one of the unlucky ones who got a 7 SPE Cell chip?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[BigJim]

Basically the point about yields is this, for those that aren't familiar with it.

All chips are defective. They all have a "failure" point, but that point varies among the lot. When a chip is made, it is tested at higher and higher frequencies until it reaches a failure point. For example, if it works at 3.0GHz and 3.2GHz but fails at 3.4GHz, they'll call it a 3.2GHz chip. Thus, it's common to see more of the lower-clocked chips available on the market than the high end ones.

It's normal to have lower yields at first. As the production process is refined, the yields increase. But since all PS3's must be uniform and have at least 7 of the cores working, there's no leeway like the example listed above. They all have to work optimally, and thus they only have the 10-20% pickings to use. But 10-20% is kinda low, even for a new part.  This will definitely improve over time, but it reeks of limited supplies for a little while.

It's another nugget of evidence explaining why PS3 will cost $600. The manufacturing volume isn't there yet to make a mainstream product. I'll be surprised if they have the promised 2 million launch figure.

[KDR_11k]

(doubled to 20-40% if you use logica redundancies...which they should be using)

Not necessarily, that can easily double the chip size which means you'd still get the same number of chips out of a wafer.

[IceCold]

Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Maybe they think if we laugh hard enough we'll all drop dead like the Weasels from Who Framed Roger Rabbit?.

Or we'll float like the guy in Mary Poppins.

[Mario]

Quote
It's grown old for me. Bad news for them is so commonplace that I don't even react anymore.

Anyone else feeling the same way?

Hell no. After 10 years at the top, I will enjoy at least another 10 years laughing at them.  

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold Or we'll float like the guy in Mary Poppins.

Yup, right into the ceiling fans...those bastards!

[Kairon]

I think you've confused Mary Poppins' chimney sweeps with what fizzy lifting drink does in Willy Wonka.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Smash_Brother]

He means when the old guy (Uncle Charlie?) laughed so hard that he started floating away.

Though, Wonka did have a situation near identical to what I'm describing.

[BigJim]

Grandpa Joe.

Charlie was the kid. Hence the name of the book.

[Kairon]

Well, I guess it's time for my third DOH! in these past few days.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[wandering]

ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha HA! HA! HA! Sony sucks.

That felt good.

[Requiem of Darcness]

Hmm....there is a fourth doh Kairon. Sony is also having other problems. Evidently a diode required to read Blu-Ray disks is in very short supply. This means they that are going to have to further push back Blu-Ray players. I do not see how Sony is going to pull off a worldwide launch with just about ever aspect going against them.

[Smash_Brother]

After reading comments from Kojima and Nomura, I've changed my mind: as long as Sony intends to pay people to say good things about them (ie lie), then I've no respect for the bastards.

I guess I slipped and allowed some pity to come through. I've reconsidered. I'll enjoy nothing more than watching these f*ckers burn...

[IceCold]

Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
Grandpa Joe.

Charlie was the kid. Hence the name of the book.

No, but he and I were talking about the Uncle in Mary Poppins... can't remember his name either.