Topic: No Backwards Compatability for Xbox 2

[RickPowers]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=116587

I've heard that Microsoft was trying to get the feature into the Xbox 2, and my guess is that some sort of internal deadline has now passed and that they couldn't get the functionality working.  Is this going to be a negative for Microsoft, or can Xbox 2 get by on the Holy Grail of Xbox Live?

[Ian Sane]

I figure it was because of the lack of a hard drive.  I don't think it's a make or break issue but it's still important to match the competition.  Just this won't screw them over but this along with several other things can.  Still I find that due to two "failures" Nintendo has to prove themselves to critics more so not having backwards compatibility would have been a bigger deal for the Rev.  MS did better than people expected with the Xbox so people probably will give them more slack.

Xbox Live though is the bigger issue.  People aren't going to want to have a new account for Xbox 2.  People aren't going to want to see some of their favourite Xbox games lose online play too soon (after all Xbox Live is only 3 years old so it's not like these are really old games or anything).  I've seen discussions about the Xbox in game stores where the clerk shills Live support for a game and the customer says it doesn't matter because his Live account ran out and he doesn't want to renew it when the Xbox 2 is being released this year and thus he might get screwed.  Due to their infamous reputation in the PC industry I think a fair bit of people EXPECT MS to screw people over regarding switching consoles and Live accounts.

I think Live is one of the first things MS should make clear at E3.  People are expecting to get screwed because it fits with Microsoft's past actions.  Releasing a new console after only 4 years and revealing plans to expand beyond games with the Xbox 2 suggests "evil plans" for the future.

[Don'tHate742]

Though I don't see this effecting their sales, it's one more reason to buy a Rev.  I hope to God that the Xenon fails, well because.......I don't want to buy another system, plus I hate supporting Microsoft.


Did you know that they are trying to launch 8,000 low orbiting satelittes?! They want to connect everything digital to a Microsoft network, even refigerators and such. Microsoft.....ruling the world? O.o

[Savior]

I think it would definetly hurt. People will want to play Halo 1 and 2 and not be able to.  

[nickmitch]

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Did you know that they are trying to launch 8,000 low orbiting satelittes?! They want to connect everything digital to a Microsoft network, even refigerators and such. Microsoft.....ruling the world? O.o

Megaman Battle Network universe ahoy!

[nemo_83]

score one for Nintendo.

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I figure it was because of the lack of a hard drive.

Not a chance... it's because of the complete change to IBM/ATI from Intel/Nvidia  

[Shecky]

Also, wasn't the new "Live" for Xbox 2 the one that's supposed to have support for micropayments...

example, want that upgraded weapon, it'll cost $1 (real cash).  I thought that was going to be incorporated into the next system generation for them.  

[allcaps]

I have a bad feeling this new Xbox is going to be horrible. I really liked what Microsoft did with the first Xbox, and other than getting somebody to make a traditional Japanese RPG, they've done pretty well. It seems as though with the next Xbox they want to take all the great features that people loved about the first system and get rid of them (since many features involve the HD), and release it in a short time frame that will alienate many Xbox owners. I know more than a few people who got their Xboxes around the time Halo 2 came out. I think releasing the new Xbox this soon is going to kill consumer confidence, and without it being backwards compitible it can't even play their biggest game ever

[BlackNMild2k1]

I'm sure somewhere down the line Microsoft will come up with a software solution that should be able to at least emulate the Xbox.

I actually heard(& posted) a rumor a while back that stated that MS would release the harddrive attachment that will come with Halo 2.5 and Xbox backwards compatability.  Its just a rumor, but I wouldn't put it past MS to milk thier #1 franchise in order to have a successful peripheral to console attachment rate (Nintendo attempts it all the time)

[Djunknown]

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Xbox Live though is the bigger issue. People aren't going to want to have a new account for Xbox 2.

In a live interview with Jay Allard with Gamespot (He delivered Microsoft's keynote address at this year's GDC), Xbox Live is a completely different thing. He said that if you're a suscriber now, you current account will work with Xenon. He went on to give an example where if your buddy's got a 'Box, and you don't, that won't stop you from  a getting an account, just so you can play at his house.  Got Xbox and Xenon in the same house? No problem.

From here, go the movies section, click on the J Allard interview

Its an interesting interview, he'll talks about Xbox live 4 minutes into the interview.

I'll guess we'll see if lack of backwards compatibility will come back to haunt them....

[BlackNMild2k1]

Backwards comapatibility for Xbox 360 maybe be closer than previously thought

TeamXecuter.com

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NewsWe've spent today doing a little more digging. It seems the Xbox 360 will use AES Encryption (XeCryptAesCbc), executable files are XEX and not XBE (xshell.xex) and after studying the kernel there is everything in place for backwards compatibility.

It can all change of course but interesting all the same.

I knew there should be some kind of software solution
Xbox 360 sounds more than powerful enough to emulate Xbox at least for most games (Kinda like PS2 and its ability to play some DVD's and not others)  

[Darc Requiem]

The problem with backwards compatibility is not whether the 360 will be powerful enough to pull it off. It will. I still haven't heard anything about MS solving the Nvidia problem. Nvidia said they'd sue MS if they tried to emulate their chipset with their next console. Nvidia wasnt' really happy about MS screwing them over the price of the X-Chip.

[KDR_11k]

They could try remapping the NVidia commands to ATi but that would mean a decrease in visual quality and potential bugs.

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
They could try remapping the NVidia commands to ATi but that would mean a decrease in visual quality and potential bugs.

^ Understatement ^  

[clevelandst124]

I don't think backwards compatiablity matters.  An xbox is a great system and it's only $150.  You could pick halo and halo 2 up for another $50.  If someone was a halo whore they'd already own the system and the games.  

Notwithstanding, but as others pointed out, microsoft will continue to whore out it's existing franchises.  I believe that halo 3, fable 2, and morrowind have already been confirmed for the xbox 360.  Who wants to play halo 1 + 2 when halo 3 is out and optimized for the new system?

Lastly an example.  Look at the ds.  It's backwards campatible with the gba.  How many people that own a gba went out and bought the ds?  The gba game library is great while the ds game library sucks.  But the people that have the gba already have the gba games, they want a good reason to buy the ds.  Which the ds has largely failed at in the game arena.  

I actually think that the xbox 360 will be very successful.  If it launches worldwide by the end of the year, it could have a 3M headstart on Sony and Nintendo.  Even if the 360 is the least powerful, it will just become the standard.  Do the game work on the 360 and port it over to Sony/Nintendo.  As stated xbox 360 has successful franchises which is something that xbox 1 didn't have.  And sony won't have thier head start.  Honestly, if ps2 and xbox had launched at the same time, who thinks ps2 still would of owned?  PS2 only had the games, and that took them a year to get thier games to the market.  The xbox was a much better machine and microsoft did a great job of getting several titles on thier system fairly fast.

Side rant.  I think the xbox 360 will do more damage to the psp than the ds did to the psp.  Here's the thing.  The psp is the new cool hip thing right now.  But people are largely buying it to use as another home console saying psp is almost ps2.  Well when xbox 360 comes, it will obviously own the psp.  And a price I saw was $300.  Seriously who would want to plop down $250 on a psp when they could enter the next generation of gaming for another $50.  This will cool psp sales because the psp will be forced to compete with ds for the handheld market and $250 +$50 games+memory sticks is too expensive for the handheld market.  

[nemo_83]

I think what would really be great is if all three of the next consoles supported PC gaming software compatibility out of the box.  This could restart all of the gov't talk of MS's OS monopoly over software.  This would open the flood gates for third parties who would nolonger have to port games if they were planning it to be cross platform.  Thus the console manufacturers would be more motivated than ever to persue exclusives.  Sony and MS could not survive without their hold on third party content.  Nintendo would not only have all the same 3rd party games but a large library of first and second party exclusives unlike Sony and MS.

[KDR_11k]

How exactly would that work? PC games are Windows games with very few exceptions. Current Windows versions aren't available for POWER processors and I doubt MS would port their OS to the other systems.

[Deguello]

I would imagine backwards compatibility is very important.  It was a big boon for the PS2.

[clevelandst124]

So the ps2 dominated because it was backwards compatable?  It didn't hurt but I don't think it helped that much.  Bottom line is there are two types of people that want to play xbox 1 games on xbox 360.

Number one, those that already have an xbox and want to be able to stuff it in the attic forever.  But they already have the ability to play xbox 1 games.  Therefore there's not an added benefit from getting xbox 360 to play xbox 1 games.

Number two, those that held off buying an xbox because it would be backward compatible.  If someone held off five years to get a to play a system how much did they want it?  Because the xbox is pretty cheap now.  My thought process is that these people would have picked up an xbox one and would therefore be in group one.  

I agree that may be a little generalization, it may have add some sales and it would be nice.   But if it adds $1 to the production cost then I don't want it.  I buy a next generation console to play the games that are made for it.  Not to play last generations games which I could be playing at a fraction of the price.  

[Deguello]

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So the ps2 dominated because it was backwards compatable?

Way to put words in my mouth.  I just said it was a big plus, and it is.

[Ian Sane]

Backwards compatibility is a good way to attract newcombers.  When I first found out that the PS2 was backwards compatible I became very interested because I didn't own a Playstation and could access a whole library of games I missed out on (but was quite curious about) while still being current and having a whole new generation of games to play.  In the end I didn't buy one but it caught my attention.

With the GBA my killer app was Link's Awakening DX.  I didn't have any Gameboys before, suddenly I was at an age where I had money, and here was this portable that could play every Gameboy game ever made plus brand new games.  I could get some of the new games and if there was a lag in the release schedule I could get over ten years worth of old games for cheap.

However backwards compatibility didn't sell me a DS so the appeal isn't as great for getting the "old" userbase to switch.  But it doesn't make sense to attract existing fans with that feature.  You attract the existing fans with must-own new games.  But that extra incentive for the newcombers (who in theory increase your marketshare) is worth adding backwards compatibility.

If you don't own an Xbox and the Xbox 360 launches with something that really grabs your interest that backlog of Xbox games you missed out on is going to influence your purchase of what otherwise could be a whole console for one game.

[Deguello]

Well, it's obviously important that a competing console should match "feature for feature", to quote a popular PGC poster.  this is the reason the DS has a leg up on the PSP, and why the PS3 and the Revolution will probably have a leg up on the Xbox uhhhh....  whatever it's called.

Backwards compatibility is also a way to avoid dimishing your late generation games and, in a way, increase the potential market for them.

[clevelandst124]

Ok I agree that backwards compatability will sell some extra consoles.  I just don't believe that it will sell a significant number.  

Example number one is you.  It made you think about buying a ps2 but you didn't.  I think if you had really wanted the ps1 games you'd just buy a ps1 I mean what are the $20 now?  

Example number two is me.  I bought a ds.  Not for the backwards compatability.  In fact, I would have bought the ds if it wouldn't have been backwards compatable.  Now I'm in the boat where I've supplemented the first round of games with gba games.  And now I just won't buy gba games anymore.  I want ds games or I'll buy games for my gamecube.

I think backwards compatability was a good way to attract newcomers.  But I don't think it works well anymore.  It's mainstream to own a video game system now.  I really don't know many males my age that don't have a ps2 or xbox or even a gamecube.  A good portion own at least two and there's some out there that own all 3.  I don't think there was this environment back in the dreamcast, n64, or playstation era.  I knew some people that owned one and a couple of people that owned a n64 and a ps.  So it was a good way to get the games to this missed generation.  

I don't think your gameboy example is a great one.  The gameboy, until ds, has been so cheap that it wasn't a big deal to pick one up for any reason.  The gameboy advance launched at $90 dollars, I think.  And I think that gameboy colors were $50.  So for a mere $40 dollars you were upgrading.  That's not the case with the xbox.  If the xbox 360 launches at $300( I think it will at least) and the xbox doesn't have a price cut(which I think it will as it hasn't in 2 years).  It's too much of a additional cost to if your killer app for owning xbox 360 is an xbox 1 game.  

[skyfire]

Not too mention Backwards Compatability is a great way for the manufacturer to drop support for legacy systems. This means no need to stock parts for these older systems. All you have to do is support your current system (which plays all your previous gens games) which would be cheaper then support it and all before it I would think.

So really BC is a win/win situation for both consumer and manufacturer. Sure it's tough to get it 100% but it's worth when you weigh against not having it.

I think the DS is a different case though. Since it's suppose to be bringing a new way of gaming it's understandable why your buying it for that reason and not to play your GB/GBC/GBA games on it (thats what a GBP is for ).