I think I should comment on the Kairon-Mashiro exchange of views above:
"I think you're not really directing those at me but I'll answer =)
Q: In what specific ways are the boss battles creative and/or fun? And compared to, say, OoT's?
A: I enjoyed the first horseback fighting battle on the bridge, that was new and fun. The battle with the giant bone creature thing in the sand where you needed to use the spin top item was pretty cool as well and definitely new and different. Fighting a possessed princess Zelda was one of the high points of the game, I really had fun during the whole end Gannon fight."
My opinion:
There is no doubt that Nintendo has improved the fighting-system considerably in TLP. That aside, it is still far from the same feeling I get riding Epona this time around. For instance, I had high expectations for Faron woods. Riding Epona through it from beginning to end would have been nice, with no areas being off-limits. It would have felt unlimited, and thus more free in it´s options for movement within the forest. And they should have animated the trees so we could get the feeling that we moved through a living forest. I loved that scene in the beginning of Majora´s Mask where Link rides on Epona in the Lost Woods. It was beautifully crafted, but you couldn´t play in it. THAT is the kind of forest which I would like to have in future Zelda games. Link is a an Elf, and so he is from the Woods. So why can´t we see more to do in those same woods? Such should always be the same in my opinion. It sort of gives Link and the forest trademark value from a gamers point of value. I truly missed an upgraded Lost Woods!
I loved The Lost Woods in OoT for their deep exploration value. Even though they were just green mazes, as one forum member has pointed out in a post, it was like more exciting to go there. There was a sense of deth in it all. In TLP all I get is the feelig of something that just needs to be travelled through quickly, and be over with. It´s as if Nintendo has tried to recreate the magic of the Lost Woods but have forgotten that with the increase in size and scope plus graphical splendour of these new woods they have not gone and looked at how much they gave the gamer to do in those woods. Zelda is also about the woods theme, isn´t it`? I have not yet found anything to do in Faron Woods. Where is the deep lake to explore of OoT (and MM) that gave me a sense of belonging there. Where is the cave-labyrinth which had you frustrated yet intent of getting through for thirst for exploring the woods? The music in Faron Woods is far from the magical fairy music of OoT, and so the whole touch of a magical forest is gone. Thus is also the desire to stay there or go back there. Riding on Epona through, and AROUND a MM-like forest would be awesome. With updated graphics of course. OoT and MM woods would be the same, as MM starts after the end of OoT. So, an upgraded Lost Woods. Yes, That´d be best I think.
"Q: How are TP's character designs (aside from the admittedly awesome Midna) of more worth than OoT's?
A: The overall designs (I know the system is far more powerful than N64) are just a lot nicer. Even in the artwork for the game, you can tell they spend extra time adding more detail and new elements to the character designs. Links design is a huge leap over what he used to look like (on paper and on screen) and the supporting cast is also filled with a variety of new designs that make the world more interesting. Given, system limitations on the N64 make it hard to compare the two but looking at the artwork behind each series, I say TP received more detail and attention."
My opinion:
Yes, Mashiro, TLP received more detail and attention.... in certain ways o n l y. OoT on the other hand bears all the trademarks of a game that received attention in ALL of the vital areas of importance for reaching a perfect, thoroughly worked-through game. SGGM: STORY/quest, GRAPHICS, GAMEPLAY, MUSIC. These 4 elements must be matching oneanother to make a game feel completely balanced. If one, or two or more of these elements suffer in completeness it will show up somewhere, and give a lesser experience overall of that game.
You may hold that TLP received more detail and attention. I hold, as I have already outlined in my posts above in this thread, that it was with primary emphasis on GRAPHICS and GAMEPLAY alone. The MUSIC and the STORY/quest is boring, so the game feels of less value. With the increase in size and scope of the Hyrule we now look at, there is not enough life forms there to populate it. Not enough houses, ruins, lakes across the land, CAVES to go into and explore, and make it feel more like a living breathing world.
OoT´s Hyrule was way more dense, and full of life, being smaller than this new Hyrule, and so easier to fill up with lifeforms for the developers. But if you suddenly make such a world 4 times bigger, you ALSO have to increase all of the other elements by 4! It is only obvious, otherwise the feeling of emptiness, and accompanying boredom will very quickly become apparent. Not much to go back to later on. I played through OoT at least 20 times!!! This game I will not even play through twice again.
It is constantly so evident to me that from what I have read Miyamoto say about the discrepancy between the excelling efforts of the Zelda TLP 3D modelling team, and the rest of their developer teams. They were caught running behind in terms of cathing up!!! That feeling is apparent throughout the game, which feels more like a beta-version more than a final version. I state again, it is a fact that Miyamoto has lamented that they didn´t feel able to catch up with the 3D modelling team. AND they apparently never did!!!! The new Hyrule is too empty, and it shows. I don´t need to write again what I listed as missing out in TLP. I think it is obvious for anybody who played through OoT and loved it.
"Q: How can you claim a solid pace when myself and others have complained that the narrative peters out halfway through, and the game had many early complaints of an 1 or 2 of tutorial-esque gameplay?
A: I personally felt the game paced itself well, while the narration isn't as prevalent while you are searching for the mirror pieces the game itself still had very little down time. You are usually always supposed to be doing something and rarely find yourself wondering around saying "wtf do I do next?". The tutorial-esque part I didn't mind either, sometimes its necessary and far better than reading a manual."
My opinion:
Kairon is right. Because again one can see the lack of content coming from an inability of the rest of the developer group to catch up.
"Q: How can you say there's plenty of exploration when large swaths of hyrule field, principally the western section in the Wii version, are for all intents and purposes, empty?
A: I know that's for GoldenPhoenix but the western area is where you do the horse back fighting earlier in the game and it remains that same open field. I think the game has a nice number of locations The Sky, Hyrule Field, Hyrule Castle, The Lake area, the Desert to name a few. Not to mention the awesomely designed area with the master sword which was very much a homage to the ALttP. At least if you look at ALttP's japanese box art and other art pieces of the development."
My opinion:
It remains open yes, but it is very little that you can do there, see there, explore there. And you cannot go directly to the gates of the desert on horse back, and you don´t get a feeling of being shot up to that sky city like you did in the cannon sequences in Mario 64. I felt that this could have been added to the cannon sequences as it would have given a feeling of closeness with that travel sequence. And wouldn´t it have been awesome if one could have looked over the sides of sky city, and be able to see Hyrule down below. Look over the sides of cliffs in Hyrule field, and see rivers down there. Hear them roaring by deep down. Giving us a feeling of desire to stay there, and just lazily ride around the field and breathe in the beauty of it all? I think so. The lake where the Zora´s live has nothing in it worth exploring, and I even dislikes some of the textures in that area as they looked too washed out, to bleached out. Artdirection or not. I need to have a world look like a world that is real, and with a specific art style throughout like in OoT. Rocks that always look the same, in different colors, hues, shapes. Lakes that are full of life, danger, things to go get etc. It was like that in OoT and MM. Why not here?
"Q: How can you point out the horseback battles when it's featured in just two or three sections of the game, is gameplay-wise little different from the motorcycle minigame in FF7, and is promptly forgotten for the rest of the game?
A: The Horse Back combat comes into play while you're traveling on (you guessed it) horse back. While it's avoidable outside of the times you MUST fight on horse back, it is still there. Comparing it to the FF7 combat on the motorcycle is a little weak given that, for the horse battle segments, you are often chasing down your enemy and not just riding by the dodging and slashing away as they pass you. It's more of a pursuit and defeat system and it's not on rails, you control where you go. You can shoot your bow as well adding to it. It was a lot of fun turning on horse back and shooting enemies approaching behind me =)."
My opinion:
The horseback battles are cool, more advanced no doubt. But the horse is not used often enough to give a feeling of a truly needed, trusty old friend. I loved Epona in OoT, and I would always treat her good. Needing her as much as I did there was giving me a feeling of a relationship, and thus a sense of identification with being Link. That feeling I miss completely here in TLP. I believe that this again is proving how the sense of belonging, and connection with this gameworld suffers from the lack of properly implemented uses of items and characters in the game. OoT was like a hub you started from, and from where you could look forward to exciting places to go. Just get on your horse, ride in the sunset or sunrise, jump over fences or whatever, park it, and go in. In TLP I get the feeling of a lone desert dweller in hell looking out over an un-enchanted countryside - a vast emptiness full of enemy life forms only. No huts to do a shooting game in. No places to ride up to, and look over the field. Over with quickly, and get out. Don´t like to come back.
"Q: Also, how do you contend the charge that the vast majority of items in TP saw little use outside of their respective dungeons. Did you ever use the ball & chain again, for example? The spinner and dominion rod saw very limited uses in very constrained puzzles outside of their dungeons, as well.
A: In all Zelda titles there are items you just don't use except in certain situations. Example: The invisible cloak from ALttP as well as the magical block that would explode. How about the boomerang in OoT? Never use it unless you are a kid."
My opinion:
I didn´t need most of the items I got throughout the game, because I almost never could see where to use them! There is too little to interact with!
"Q: Also, the lack of sufficient breadcrumbing for players to use midna's warp abilities to fix certain puzzles in the game... AND the ridiculous over abundance of rupees in the game, so much so that they're trivialized as rewards for quests, and lesswen the enjoyment of exploring when the treasure chest you just opened has something you already have in spades?
A: I dunno none of those things really bugged me all too much, just personal tastes I guess vary."
My opinion:
I agree with Kairon that there is indeed a ridiculous over abundance of rupees in the game. I think again this is something done in a haste to attempt to fill out the emptiness of the gameworld already lacking in stuff to do.
My final comment: I think that they should get Miyamoto back to playing a more directing role in future Zelda games. Or the series will suffer. The sales numbers speak for themselves, as do the complaints. And I do hope for Nintendo that they will remember to listen to the fans of the series. And listen close to those who rightly comlain about abvious dissapointments and faults in Zelda games they make. If Nintendo wants to be the No. 1 console game supplier I think it would be wise to remember that. I don´t say that my opinion, or those of Kairons, are paramount, but we have some true points that serve to illustrate why TLP is not 120% Zelda as sought by the company.
Topic: LOZ: 2005 (Read 566811 times)
