Topic: Nintendo Removes Name from List of SOPA Supporters

[BranDonk Kong]

SOPA is the biggest step backwards in entertainment history. This type of legislation would never even be considered if it wasn't for the mega corporations and their cronies buying congressmen. Nothing will heal the economy like making everyday internet users into criminals...

[oohhboy]

Please watch KDRs video. It explains very clearly why law makers will continue to fail in perpetuity.

It parallels the War on Terror and the War on Drugs, both of which are failures. In both they are fighting concepts, ideas with physical force. Instead of treating both as a law enforcement issue that are already covered under existing laws, like Murder or intoxication, they elevate these mundane crimes and give themselves powers that violate the very reasons, the very history the country was founded upon. When they invariably fail as reality spits back in their face, they double down, still thinking they didn't fight hard enough and it's the glory days of World War 2 where punching Hilter means you win. The cycle continues. More surveillance, more controls, more checkpoints, drills, security sweeps, color coded alerts, ever smaller "free speech zones".

SOPA and PIPA are part of a war against general computing. When you slap a processor inside something, if you give it the appropriate signals, it does what you want. What companies seek is to have complete control over that processor, what it does, who can use it. The problem is, to borrow from KDR's video, is that the General Processor and the networks they run on have become the wheel. There are processors everywhere and everything is networked. No longer are thing filled with switches and springs, or clockwork. If I was to fly a modern plane these days, I wouldn't be flying the plane, I would be flying the computer and the computer flys the plane for me. The same increasingly applies to cars (with speed/acceleration limiters, ABS, traction control, power steering, differential and soon, self driving cars), radios have processors now instead of crystals. Hearin aids no longer have amplifying circuits, but sound processors that can not only amplify, but enhance hearing.

Imagine trying to outlaw specific functions of a wheel without breaking it. You can't. Imagine instead of dealing with the offender when it comes to speeding like we do now days, you write a law that says wheels cannot go faster than X speed. I don't have to tell you why it's stupid. What happens to wheels not attached to cars?, what if it's a bicycle? What of all the wheels that already exists that must function by going over x speed? Imagine declearing war on the wheel?

I could go on, but please watch KDR's video. It explains it so much better than I can. There is no "The truth is somewhere in the middle South Park BS". There is reality and there is fantasy.
---
From my observations of Americans, they have no idea what socialism means, let alone look it up in a dictionary. As the American media continue to frenzy, soon there will be a point where sharing would be considered "socialism" as the country runs headlong into "**** you, got mine".

[Chozo Ghost]

It parallels the War on Terror

What we need is a War on Horror. Terror is bad and all, but Horror is even worse. Why aren't we fighting that?

[broodwars]

I don't know if SOPA will be as bad as people think, bills are ALWAYS over blown. Heath Care Reform is not socialism.

Well, regardless of whether you think Obamacare is socialism, it is unconstitutional (Giving the government the ability to order a private citizen to purchase a desired product.  Good lord, that's one slippery slope.).  Hopefully, the Supreme Court will agree when ruling on it later this year.  By the same token, SOPA and Protect IP are terrible laws that give government a whole new level of control over Free Speech with pretty much no Checks & Balances, and so should be unconstitutional as well.  I hope we won't have to rely on the Supreme Court to handle that matter as well.

Unfortunately, all these companies supposedly "backing out" of supporting these terrible bills aren't really doing so.  They're merely removing their names while allowing the Electronic Software Association (their main lobbying body) to continue lobbying for the bill.  I won't believe these companies have changed their minds in supporting these bills unless we see them actively signed against them.

[ThePerm]

this thread has gotten too political and im closing it, wait goddamnit im not a moderator....

[Chozo Ghost]

Whatever anyone's feelings are on Obama, Socialism, or Health Care, this is definitely not the forum to be discussing it. We are now entering an election year so I predict its going to be worse, but try to suppress it please. Try to stick to the video game stuff.

[KDR_11k]

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Even if SOPA is defeated now they will rename it and put it back on the table. Blackmail is not the answer either, all that does is make the opposition to the bill look like it's composed of criminals who just don't want the govt to stop their crimes.

The only way to win is to make the politicians truly believe that tampering with the internet in such drastic ways is a terrible idea. And that's not possible (discounting brainwashing here, the cure must not be worse than the disease!).

Banning lobbying would be a first step though, that's just legalized bribery.

[TJ Spyke]

Well, regardless of whether you think Obamacare is socialism, it is unconstitutional

That is not even the slightest bit true, and multiple court rulings (including from a conservative udge appointed by Reagan) have ruled it Constitutional. Health care reform is a good thing and I hope the Supreme Court is smart enough to make the right decision.

Lobbying does not need to involve money or gifts or anything, it can be as simple as going to the Congressman and telling them why they should act one way or another.

[Kairon]

Updated with language detailing ESA, Sony game division details.

[ThePerm]

funny thing is: i love talking about politics...on reddit

[UncleBob]

and multiple court rulings (including from a conservative udge appointed by Reagan) have ruled it Constitutional.

I don't want to get into politics on here, but Spyke, this is a half-truth.  Sure, multiple courts have ruled the individual mandate to be Constitutional... but multiple court rulings have also declared it to be Unconstitutional.

If you're going to get into a political debate on here*, then you need to be completely honest with your statements.

*Don't get into a political debate on here.

[Morari]

Health care reform is a good thing [...]

It absolutely is. However, giving the insurance and pharmaceutical companies even more power and business by forcing customers upon them is not. If you want real reform, you need to look toward other first world nations. Don't let industry lobbyists draft your bills... whether it's on healthcare of IP laws.

[NWR_insanolord]

What part of "no political discussion" do you people not understand? You can talk about SOPA, because that's relevant to gaming and the subject of this article, but anything else is off limits.

[oohhboy]

An update has come in. ESA still supports SOPA. Statement follows:

"As an industry of innovators and creators, we understand the importance of both technological innovation and content protection, and do not believe the two are mutually exclusive. Rogue websites – those singularly devoted to profiting from their blatant illegal piracy – restrict demand for legitimate video game products and services, thereby costing jobs. Our industry needs effective remedies to address this specific problem, and we support the House and Senate proposals to achieve this objective. We are mindful of concerns raised about a negative impact on innovation. We look forward to working with the House and Senate, and all interested parties, to find the right balance and define useful remedies to combat willful wrongdoers that do not impede lawful product and business model innovation."

Source.

[Ian Sane]

The internet is freedom.  It's anarchy, only safe.  In an anarchaic society there is the risk of "might making right".  With no law to protect you there is nothing to stop anyone from hurting or killing you aside from your own physical resistance.  But the internet has no such problem.  Yeah there are viruses but no one can physically harm you.  You get the freedom of anarchy without any danger.  Even most theft on the internet isn't theft in the typical sense.  While credit card information can be stolen most internet theft is piracy of IP.  But in that case nothing is literally taken from the victim, like it would if someone in the real world stole your possessions.  The damage IP theft does is devaluing your product.  You still have all the IP to sell but huge chunks of your market are taken away because they can get it for "free".  It's like someone leaking a trade secret.  It's the equivalent of blabbing about Coca-Cola's secret recipe.

Because the internet is freedom I figure it is inevitable that it will be taken away at some point.  Now we shouldn't give up and not fight to keep this freedom but I think someday it will be taken away (or willingly given away by a public that doesn't know better).  I don't think my future children will have access to the internet in the same way I do and I feel lucky to have truly lived in its golden age.

No matter what happens we are moving into a different age.  If the internet remains free, IP is worthless.  Music, movies, TV shows, books, videogames - all of that ceases to have any value from a business perspective.  Now some think that that is a good thing, that it will take the corporations out of it and give the art back to the artists.  The thing is that these things take time and money to create.  If businesses aren't doing it anymore, less people are going to do it.  The average person has a mortgage to pay and kids to feed.  They have to spend 40 hours of their week working a job.  They don't have the time and money to create artistic works at the same pace and scale as someone who does that professionally.  In the old days the working class made DICK ALL for art unless they were specifically professional artists because the Aristocracy were the only ones with the money and leisure time to do it for kicks.

So we either get a world where IP is worthless and the internet is free or one where the internet is greatly restricted to a point where it can make IP worth something.  And while one might think that the government truly can't control the internet, do you not rely on your ISP for internet access?  Don't we all rely on computers and operating systems?  If ISP companies and the hardware and software companies are all on board with this (and you know the software companies are; their whole business is IP) then getting ahold of the equipment to even access an unrestricted internet will be incredibly difficult.  Now it won't block everyone out but as long as it blocks the mainstream user, then it will work.

Which future do you want to live in?  We can't have the free internet with all the movies and music and videogames we have now.  Something will change.  I'm in favour of the free internet because I'm all in favour of liberty and freedom, even though as a musician I'm a little bummed out to realize I was born in an era where music is financially worthless and I likely can't make a living doing what I love.  But freedom is more important.  The market changes and products and services can become worthless as history changes.  We didn't outlaw cars to protect the jobs of farriers and horse breeders so we shouldn't outlaw the internet to protect sellers of IP.

[BlkPaladin]

Well it doesn't look like the ESA is backing down. So the three console manufacturers and most US developers are still indirectly supporting the bill. (The thing I find funny in this is perennial "bad-guy" publisher Activision/Blizzard isn't a member and I don't think supports the bill, which will be a first time they will not be on the receiving end of hate of something going down in the video game market.)

http://kotaku.com/5872766/the-video-game-industrys-lobbyists-support-sopa-but-they-understand-why-you-might-not

[Morari]

If the internet remains free, IP is worthless.  Music, movies, TV shows, books, videogames - all of that ceases to have any value from a business perspective.

At least that's what the old dinosaurs trying to push things like SOPA and PIPA through think. In reality, IP becomes more important than ever. IP becomes the product. Whereas right now you are sold a DVD or a book, in a digital economy you are sold access to the content itself. Making that access simply and ubiquitous is what will make or break most services. Unfortunately, making sure that such an economy fails is beneficial to institutions like Hollywood and the Record Industry. They make their money off of being middlemen. That may have worked when distribution was a major hurdle, both physically and financially. That's not the case in this brave new world, and that's what scares them. There's still room for corporations to make content and profit off of it, there's just no way to translate over the current system from meatspace... the one that has made entire industries lazy.

[oohhboy]

A must read open letter sent to the House of Representatives at November the 15 and originally drafted In July 5 2011 by 110 Law professors against SOPA/PIPA. Not a long read at 6 pages, but it is in plain english and it spells out not just why it's bad, but how bad SOPA/PIPA is. Below is the cover letter summarising the document.

An open letter to the House of Representatives:

We write to express our concerns about H.R. 3261, the so-called Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA). Avery similar bill is pending in the Senate under the name PROTECT-IP Act. In July, more than 100 law professors focused on intellectual property law wrote to express our concerns with that Act; we attach a copy of that letter below.

While there are some differences between SOPA and PROTECT-IP, nothing in SOPA makes any effort to address the serious constitutional, innovation, and foreign policy concerns that we expressed in that letter. Indeed, in many respects SOPA is even worse than PROTECT-IP. Among other infirmities, it would:

Redefine the standard for copyright infringement on the Internet, changing the definition of inducement in a way that would not only conflict with Supreme Court precedent but would make YouTube, Google, and numerous other web sites liable for copyright infringement.

Allow the government to block Internet access trademark infringement a term that the Department of Justice currently interprets to require nothing more than having a link on a web page to another site that turns out to be infringing.

Allow any private copyright or trademark owner to interfere with the ability of web sites to host advertising or charge purchases to credit cards, putting enormous obstacles in the path of electronic commerce.

Most significantly, it would do all of the above while violating our core tenets of due process. By failing to guarantee the challenged web sites notice or an opportunity to be heard in court before their sites are shutdown, SOPA represents the most ill-advised and destructive intellectual property legislation in recent memory.

In sum, SOPA is a dangerous bill. It threatens the most vibrant sector of our economy Internet commerce. It is directly at odds with repressive regimes will seize upon to justify their censorship of the Internet. And it violates the First Amendment.

We hope you will review the attached letter, signed by many of the most prominent law professorsin the country, and register your concerns about SOPA.

Very truly yours,

Professor Mark A. Lemley Stanford Law SchoolProfessor David S. Levine Elon University School of Law Professor David Post Temple University School of Law

If a hundred and ten Professors of Law can't convince you that this bill is not only bad, but is dangerous, get off this planet now, you're clearly not human, you don't belong here and you're not welcome anymore. More often than not, the dangers that SOPA/PIPA carries is understated, not over-blown like some would dismiss out of hand.

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In related news, Epic games has posted a letter in their forums openly coming out against SOPA despite belonging to the ESA, although not unequivocally. With the PR speak, they are still on the fence, but at least their legs are all on one side now.

Hi folks,
 
 Some people have asked how Epic feels about the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA). This post is meant to provide answers.
 
 Epic Games supports efforts that would stop overseas websites profiting from pirating our games, but we have to do that in a way that's compatible with freedom of speech and due process of law.
 
 Thus, we do not support the current version of SOPA.
 
 We are members of the Entertainment Software Association (ESA), a trade organization that is working with legislators to refine the bill.
 
 Best regards,
 
 Dana Cowley
 Senior PR Manager
 Epic Games, Inc.

[TJ Spyke]

You also have lawyers who support stuff like racism.

[Ian Sane]

If the internet remains free, IP is worthless.  Music, movies, TV shows, books, videogames - all of that ceases to have any value from a business perspective.

At least that's what the old dinosaurs trying to push things like SOPA and PIPA through think. In reality, IP becomes more important than ever. IP becomes the product. Whereas right now you are sold a DVD or a book, in a digital economy you are sold access to the content itself. Making that access simply and ubiquitous is what will make or break most services. Unfortunately, making sure that such an economy fails is beneficial to institutions like Hollywood and the Record Industry. They make their money off of being middlemen. That may have worked when distribution was a major hurdle, both physically and financially. That's not the case in this brave new world, and that's what scares them. There's still room for corporations to make content and profit off of it, there's just no way to translate over the current system from meatspace... the one that has made entire industries lazy.

I'm of the idea that product only has financial value if it has scarcity.  I don't buy air or sunlight because it's free and it's everywhere.  I buy things that are hard or impossible for me to obtain myself.  The reason I don't pirate is entirely because I'm a nice guy.  Or maybe I want the physical item with all the packaging and such.  But I don't NEED to buy your game or your music to get it.  I can essentially reproduce it out of thin air.  It thus has no real financial value because it isn't scarce in any way.  Now, the initially creation of the IP doesn't come from nothing, but once it is out anyone can obtain it for free.  It's like those machines in Star Trek that make food out of nothing.  Once something like that exists, there is no reason to go to the supermarket other than essentially subsidizing the grocer out of the kindness of my heart.

You can sell the access but not with the internet as is.  I can access essentially ANY IP I WANT without paying a dime if it has been released to the public at some point so that someone can leak a copy.  How do you control access to IP while leaving the internet as free and open as it is now?  The best you can charge for is convenience and quality control.

The IP has always been the product.  The phyical media was just how you transferred it around.  I bought the music and then if I burned a copy for my friend he got the music as well, without buying it.

[oohhboy]

You also have lawyers who support stuff like racism.

You're not even trying anymore TJ. Really, a South Park equivalency talking point the best you have got. I have seen trolls put in more effort. I have seen kindergardeners have deeper thoughts than that statement while molding cat droppings in the sandbox.

Go chew on this for a while TJ, don't worry, it's right up your alley, you will like it and don't come back until you have something worthwhile to say.

[TJ Spyke]

I was merely pointing out that you have lawyers supporting every issue. I don't care if you agree or disagree with me. Form all the petty little insults you want, I couldn't care less since how a stranger on the Internet feels means squat to me.

[Chozo Ghost]

I'm of the idea that product only has financial value if it has scarcity.

The value of something is determined by a subset of supply and demand. Scarcity falls into the supply category, but there has to be demand also. For example, what is the value of a dog turd? In a way every dog turd is unique I guess, like a snowflake, but there is no demand for it so even if they are one of a kind there is zero value to it whatsoever.

I should have just said a rock instead of dog turds. Every rock you find on the ground will be different from every other rock in some way, whether it be shape or composition or whatever. But are these rocks valuable just because they are one of a kind?

[lolmonade]

I'm of the idea that product only has financial value if it has scarcity.

Scarcity of product for software is dependent on how much it costs for a company to produce x copies for y assumed buyers.  It costs companies something to produce copies of the product on compact disc, and it also costs something for them to provide a source for you to download a copy of the product from legitimately.

You're welcome to assert that you downloading from a torrent doesn't technically cost them either, which is true in the sense that you're not costing them a disc pressing or bandwith, but you are also being entertained for something which legitimate means of ownership have an explicit price to enjoy.  I don't believe in the logic of each pirated copy of a game is a lost $50-60 sale, but I do believe there is a price point for most people where they would gladly pay for a legitimate means of owning it.

As someone whose father used to make copies of Amiga discs and return the bought games the next day for us, I still find the concept of downloading a game and not compensating the makers for their work a bit morally murky.  I personally feel better about waiting until a price is more palpable than full retail.

[UncleBob]

Can we put a stop on all the pointless name calling and such?

And don't reply to my post with some half-witted justification as to why it was okay for /you/ to name call.  I'm not interested.