Author Topic: Your misguided sense of loyalty is hurting the games industry (Read 12970 times)

wandering · « **on:** March 07, 2007, 01:43:10 PM »

An open letter to Kairon (and people like him):

To whom it may concern,

Your loyalty isn't helping the games industry.

There are many legitimate reasons for not owning multiple consoles - not having enough money, for one. But if you refuse to buy any games or consoles that don't bear the Official Nintendo Seal of Sealiness on principle, to help your "team", you are not doing good.

Wanting to help Nintendo is understandable - you love their products, and have had to suffer through two generations of them struggling in last place. But Nintendo has proven, with the Wii and the DS, that they don't need your charity. So don't give it to them. Instead, do the best thing you can for both the games industry, and your fellow gamers: buy good games, no matter what system they appear on.

Get it out of your head that you need to help Nintendo by buying dreck like Call of Duty 3 for the Wii. Instead, you should be supporting the artists behind Ico, Silent Hill, Shadow of the Colossus and Okami....well, not Okami. Too late for that.

Help make sure more talented development teams aren't disbanded. Help make sure more great games are made. Help yourself learn more about video games and game design. And help Nintendo, by making them work for your dollar. Do all this, just by buying good games.

Sincerely,

Walter "Wa" N. During
WalterNDuring@mailinator.com

(edited the title to be a bit less rude)

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #1 on:** March 07, 2007, 01:54:32 PM »

I'll pass on anymore Ico/Shadow of the Collossus games, I didn't find them enjoyable and thought they were pretty shallow besides the art direction. In regards to the other games I agree, but I also feel a game doesn't need to be Okamiesque in art direction for it to be a great title.

UncleBob · « **Reply #2 on:** March 07, 2007, 02:07:46 PM »

No! Don't listen to him. Give all your monies to Nintendo. Heck, just write them a blank check and mail it to them. Nintendo deserves your life.

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2007, 02:16:09 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I'll pass on anymore Ico/Shadow of the Collossus games, I didn't find them enjoyable and thought they were pretty shallow besides the art direction. In regards to the other games I agree, but I also feel a game doesn't need to be Okamiesque in art direction for it to be a great title.

Hey! We finally agree on something! :p .

I bought ICO a few years ago because everyone was going batcrap crazy about it. I played it for like 3 hours and grew bored with it. The art style was great, yeah, but the whole was indeed shallow.

And wandering, why do you care if Kairon only buys Nintendo games or the Nintendo version of multi console games?

It's his money and he does whatever he wants with it. He has an odd sense of loyalty, yeah, but its his life.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #4 on:** March 07, 2007, 02:19:21 PM »

Yeah but Kairon is obviously a secret Sony spy by praising high unit sales in January, and dooming the Wii to oblivion (Ok I may have stretched that a bit!). He also praises Halo! Halo of all things.

Caliban · « **Reply #5 on:** March 07, 2007, 03:02:00 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Get it out of your head that you need to help Nintendo by buying dreck like Call of Duty 3 for the Wii. Instead, you should be supporting the artists behind Ico, Silent Hill, Shadow of the Colossus and Okami....well, not Okami. Too late for that.

100+ M-I-L-L-I-O-N PS2s were sold...do you really think they needed our support? If those games didn't sell enough you can point your guilty finger at the publishers that didn't do enough of a good job.

Arbok · « **Reply #6 on:** March 07, 2007, 03:59:57 PM »

A better solution: Wandering buys numerous copies of all of the games out there which he decrees have "artistic merit".

Problem solved.

segagamer12 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 07, 2007, 04:03:17 PM »

I like Halo its a fun game.

I don't agree with fanboyism either. I had an NES, switched to Genesis, got Ps1 and N64 same day, then GC, now a Wii and I want a 360. Good games are good games no matter who makes them. and COD3 was a good game btw.

Plus Halo 3 will crush ps3.

Mario · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2007, 04:04:05 PM »

We need to teach devs that their games should be on Nintendo consoles or they will go under.

Heck, I just want to see Sony actually try and support a system themselves for once.

wandering · « **Reply #9 on:** March 07, 2007, 04:04:39 PM »

Quote
I'll pass on anymore Ico/Shadow of the Collossus games, I didn't find them enjoyable and thought they were pretty shallow besides the art direction.

I find them deep...

Quote
And wandering, why do you care if Kairon only buys Nintendo games or the Nintendo version of multi console games?

It's his money and he does whatever he wants with it. He has an odd sense of loyalty, yeah, but its his life.

Other people's purchasing decisions indirectly affect me.

edit: also, I think I get annoyed with Nintendo-only gamers because I used to be one myself. I'm annoyed with myself for cutting myself off from so many great games on the PSX and PS2. And I feel guilty about not buying a copy of Okami before Clover was disbanded (even though, of course, one copy wouldn't have made a difference.)

Quote
100+ M-I-L-L-I-O-N PS2s were sold...do you really think they needed our support?

It couldn't hurt.

Quote
We need to teach devs that their games should be on Nintendo consoles or they will go under.

Why?

Mario · « **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2007, 04:39:50 PM »

Because Nintendo = Good, Sony = Evil, duh.

Screw non-games like Ico, everyone go buy Toca Race Driver 3.

wandering · « **Reply #11 on:** March 07, 2007, 05:09:20 PM »

I know that Sony is evil, and they're just using gaming to further their diabolical plot of taking over the world, but....they did fund the development of Ico and Shadow of the Colossus, and Nintendo didn't. They did give Factor 5 the hardware they needed to make Lair, and Nintendo didn't. Sony enables good games to be made, isn't that worth supporting? And if it isn't, why do we even support Nintendo in the first place? And think about this: great as Nintendo is, would them having a monopoly on the console market really be a good thing? Didn't they kind of abuse their monopoly on the handheld market?

ShyGuy · « **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2007, 06:08:27 PM »

Yes, yes Great One, decree how we are to spend our gaming dollars. Wandering, you are sounding like a real pompous windbag; did you move to Oregon?

IceCold · « **Reply #13 on:** March 07, 2007, 06:29:20 PM »

Honestly.

King of Twitch · « **Reply #14 on:** March 07, 2007, 08:10:35 PM »

"Sony enables good games to be made"

This is funhouse material

KDR_11k · « **Reply #15 on:** March 07, 2007, 08:35:48 PM »

I'm more worried about Kairon giving publishers the idea that Nintendo fanboys will buy anything thrown at them as long as it's exclusive to a Nintendo console.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #16 on:** March 07, 2007, 10:14:06 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I'm more worried about Kairon giving publishers the idea that Nintendo fanboys will buy anything thrown at them as long as it's exclusive to a Nintendo console.

But isn't that already true?

Mario · « **Reply #17 on:** March 07, 2007, 11:25:34 PM »

Alright, PICK ONE

a) Nintendo fans don't buy third party games because compared to Nintendos own efforts, they usually suck.

b) Nintendo fans buy third party games because compared to Nintendos own efforts, they usually suck.

Shift Key · « **Reply #18 on:** March 08, 2007, 12:12:32 AM »

Posting in a legendary hilarious thread

Shift "Shifty" Key
shufty@nwr.com

KDR_11k · « **Reply #19 on:** March 08, 2007, 12:24:49 AM »

But isn't that already true?

No, Nintendo fanboys buy everything that is MADE BY Nintendo. Kairon buys every crappy game that's released on a Nintendo platform. In fact, Kairon is more likely to buy a game the crappier it is.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #20 on:** March 08, 2007, 04:41:00 AM »

Buy games because you think you'll like them. The end.

ShyGuy · « **Reply #21 on:** March 08, 2007, 04:45:40 AM »

I agree with Ian.

Arbok · « **Reply #22 on:** March 08, 2007, 05:39:13 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Sony enables good games to be made, isn't that worth supporting?

Over a company that makes good games themself? ...wait, isn't that a counterpoint to this whole argument?

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Buy games because you think you'll like them. The end.

We have a winner.

segagamer12 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 08, 2007, 09:12:47 AM »

To be honest I do it, but not Nintendo, SEGA. Sometimes I buy a game just cuz Sega made it and dont even play it after the intial purchase. I go back and forth on who I like more, Nintendo or Sega but its always pretty close. Niether come close to Midway though, the're my all time favorite just cuz MK is my favorite series period.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #24 on:** March 08, 2007, 09:28:16 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
To be honest I do it, but not Nintendo, SEGA. Sometimes I buy a game just cuz Sega made it and dont even play it after the intial purchase. I go back and forth on who I like more, Nintendo or Sega but its always pretty close. Niether come close to Midway though, the're my all time favorite just cuz MK is my favorite series period.

Sega is a shell of its former self though.

King of Twitch · « **Reply #25 on:** March 08, 2007, 09:37:59 AM »

If you can blow $$ on a game you don't even want to play.. you have way too much money on your hands, give some to me

Arbok · « **Reply #26 on:** March 08, 2007, 10:21:16 AM »

I've just discovered something else related to this: apparently game developers don't get any revenue from used game sales. Shocking I know. So we are all hurting the game industry everytime we buy a used game, making the majority of us awful, awful people... I hardly know how we all sleep at night considering our share of sins.

wandering · « **Reply #27 on:** March 08, 2007, 02:08:22 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Buy games because you think you'll like them. The end.

That's what I'm saying!

Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Sony enables good games to be made, isn't that worth supporting?

Over a company that makes good games themself? ...wait, isn't that a counterpoint to this whole argument?

Not over, in addition to.

Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
I've just discovered something else related to this: apparently game developers don't get any revenue from used game sales. Shocking I know. So we are all hurting the game industry everytime we buy a used game, making the majority of us awful, awful people... I hardly know how we all sleep at night considering our share of sins.

I don't know how you sleep with yourselves either.

No, seriously, look at this way: If you asked a game designer if he minded if you sometimes bought some of his games used, or rented some of them, or borrowed some from a friend, he'd probably say not to worry about it. But if you told him you deliberately tried to make sure not a cent of your money ever went to him, because Sony is evil, he'd probably say he wished you wouldn't do that.

MarioAllStar · « **Reply #28 on:** March 08, 2007, 02:31:15 PM »

The only non-Nintendo system I have right now is a Sega Saturn (only because it came my way and I was not going to turn it down). If my financial status permitted, I would buy many classic systems, a PS2, and an Xbox 360. Of course I want to play the best games that I can. For me, Nintendo systems offer a greater selection of appealing games than any of their competitors, so they are the default choice.

I must admit that I felt really torn when considering an Xbox purchase about 4 years ago. I felt that I was betraying Nintendo after all these years. I was 11 at the time, so I had been playing Nintendo for a good 6 or 7 years. Eventually, I bought the system, but then sold it a couple years later. I only owned a couple games and never bought mega hits like Halo. I didn't follow the Xbox scene closely and few games captivated my interest. Now, I want an Xbox 360. Not desperately, but enough so that I would buy one if an excess of money came my way.

The moral of this story is that, although I feel a certain amount of loyalty to Nintendo, I can not let that stop me from exploring other options. You shouldn't either.

ShyGuy · « **Reply #29 on:** March 08, 2007, 02:46:14 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Buy games because you think you'll like them. The end.

That's what I'm saying!

That's not what you are saying, just admit that Ian pwned you.

wandering · « **Reply #30 on:** March 08, 2007, 03:21:16 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Buy games because you think you'll like them. The end.

That's what I'm saying!

That's not what you are saying, just admit that Ian pwned you.

I think you are guys are misunderstanding me a little. I'm not saying that Okami or Shadow of the Colossus are objectively Good(tm), and you need to buy them. I'm not saying you need to buy any specific games at all. I'm saying your purchasing decisions should not be driven by the philosophy that buying games for the Xbox or PS2 or PC or NGage is somehow wrong.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #31 on:** March 08, 2007, 03:24:13 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Buy games because you think you'll like them. The end.

That's what I'm saying!

That's not what you are saying, just admit that Ian pwned you.

I think you are guys are misunderstanding me a little. I'm not saying that Okami or Shadow of the Colossus are objectively Good(tm), and that you need to buy them. I'm not saying you need to buy any specific games at all. I'm saying your purchasing decisions should not be driven by the philosophy that buying games for the Xbox or PS2 or PC or NGage is somehow wrong.

I would have probably chose another platform to stick in there.

Arbok · « **Reply #32 on:** March 08, 2007, 04:38:42 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
I'm not saying you need to buy any specific games at all. I'm saying your purchasing decisions should not be driven by the philosophy that buying games for the Xbox or PS2 or PC or NGage is somehow wrong.

I say let people spend their money the way they want to.

I hate to pick on Kairon for this, seeing as how wandering did in the main post, but if he gains satisfaction from knowing he is supporting a company is that wrong? A lot of economics is perception, and some people feel they are getting more mileage for their dollar in thinking that they are supporting a firm they themselves admire… much in the same way that this entire thread was originally created with the intent of supporting talented developers.

We could have a whole similar argument based around the concept of “only buy American made goods!”. Some people are willing to pay more or shop exclusively for American produced items. Are they wrong? Should someone stop them from their beliefs? The practice itself might seem odd to some, hell I import and penny pinch every chance I get, but I won’t go around acting like a higher authority and that I have some sort of right to call out their shopping mannerisms as “wrong” or "narrow minded".

wandering · « **Reply #33 on:** March 08, 2007, 05:22:37 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
I say let people spend their money the way they want to.

But when you review a film, aren't you trying to influence people's purchasing decisions?

Quote
We could have a whole similar argument based around the concept of “only buy American made goods!”. Some people are willing to pay more or shop exclusively for American produced items. Are they wrong? Should someone stop them from their beliefs? The practice itself might seem odd to some, hell I import and penny pinch every chance I get, but I won’t go around acting like a higher authority and that I have some sort of right to call out their shopping mannerisms as “wrong” or "narrow minded".

Well, I should think one of the two of you must be wrong.

Kairon has the perception that, by refusing to buy Xbox or Playstation games, he is having a positive influence on the games industry. That perception must be either right or wrong, right? Which is to say, if everyone bought the same things kairon did, either that would lead to more good games (games kairon considers good, I mean) being made, or less. I argue, perhaps more rudely and less tactfully than I should, that kairon's perception is wrong.

...Unless kairon's goal isn't to ensure more good games are made.

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
I think you are guys are misunderstanding me a little. I'm not saying that Okami or Shadow of the Colossus are objectively Good(tm), and that you need to buy them. I'm not saying you need to buy any specific games at all. I'm saying your purchasing decisions should not be driven by the philosophy that buying games for the Xbox or PS2 or PC or NGage is somehow wrong.

I would have probably chose another platform to stick in there.

Well, buying PSP games, that's different. I think we can all agree no one should do that.

wandering · « **Reply #34 on:** March 08, 2007, 05:26:29 PM »

double post

ShyGuy · « **Reply #35 on:** March 08, 2007, 05:28:23 PM »

Yup, definitely from Oregon...

segagamer12 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 08, 2007, 05:45:03 PM »

not even close. Im unemployed and running a dead end POS website just to have spending cash. I ususally get my parents to buy me videos games I wont play. Um getting back to topic at hand.

I have changed my loyalty once more. Since my first game systems was an Atari, and my sister got meone for my birthday I am now an Atari fanboy. Go atari. PLus that kick ass DBZ game is made by the company that bought (stole) thier name.

We should all petition Atari and SEGA to team up and make a new game system together. They can call it the Phoenix

BUY ATARI GAMES FORGET SONY

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #37 on:** March 08, 2007, 06:15:38 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
not even close. Im unemployed and running a dead end POS website just to have spending cash. I ususally get my parents to buy me videos games I wont play. Um getting back to topic at hand.

I have changed my loyalty once more. Since my first game systems was an Atari, and my sister got meone for my birthday I am now an Atari fanboy. Go atari. PLus that kick ass DBZ game is made by the company that bought (stole) thier name.

We should all petition Atari and SEGA to team up and make a new game system together. They can call it the Phoenix

BUY ATARI GAMES FORGET SONY

Hate to break it to you but Sega and Atari are basically names, not real companies anymore. It is sad but true.

Arbok · « **Reply #38 on:** March 08, 2007, 06:48:47 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
But when you review a film, aren't you trying to influence people's purchasing decisions?

Depends on the point of view I suppose, but I certainly don't approach it that way. I review films mostly to vent my own feelings about the production, while ending with a general rating in regards to how I think other people might enjoy the film, which has sometimes not been aligned with my own view due to nostalgia and other factors.

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Kairon has the perception that, by refusing to buy Xbox or Playstation games, he is having a positive influence on the games industry. That perception must be either right or wrong, right?

Could be argued that way, much like the whole "American product only" debate that I brought up. You could percieve the "pro-American" person as being anti "China", Japan" etc. From that point you could see it as wrong if you like, but I certainly wouldn't start calling them out and acting like a higher authority on the matter.

segagamer12 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 09, 2007, 04:12:26 AM »

>>>Hate to break it to you but Sega and Atari are basically names, not real companies anymore. It is sad but true<<<

I know, I think I mentiond that in my post too.

Well true for Atari anyways, Sega is still the same as its always been, they've changed owners several times since being established, so just cuz they have new ownership deosnt mean they dont exsist, they still operate in the same buildings, with the same staff and own the same property and have the same games.

Atari I agree is dead. Time Warner broke them into 2 divisions and sold them off seperatley, one to Midway, who gobbled up the IP and disbanned the name, and the other to divison swicthed hands a couple of times before getting bought by Hasbor and turned int Hasbor Interactive, sold that to Infogrames who only wanted the IP and NAME and decided Atari was a more viable name than thier own (sad I know)

Yet Atari and Sega both have a HISTORY and they hold special memeories for millions of people so thier NAMES alone will live forever.

I found that with the wiim being an impusle buyer I am now grabbing VC games like thier candy and have already more than I will liekly get around to playing but keep getting more. So Ill be the first to say this

*raises hand*
"My name is the rat and I have a problem..."

stevey · « **Reply #40 on:** March 09, 2007, 10:50:08 AM »

I agree about gamers should buy good games from 3rd partys, and I even own a xbox/ps2/dreamcast, but I'm still a nintendo fanboy at heart and fully support them because they make the best & greatest games out there. That and reggie=jesus. And do disagree about karion own views about fanboys only buying 1st party nintendo games, but I do think nintendo fanboys and gamer loyalty are 100% necessary. It's our jobs to defend nintendo from being bash by evil $ony/ms fanboys, and spread the word of nintendo to others, and to kill the infidels....

NINTENDO FANBOY FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

wandering · « **Reply #41 on:** March 09, 2007, 12:08:23 PM »

Quote
I certainly wouldn't start calling them out and acting like a higher authority on the matter.

I don't think I'm a higher authority. I have an opinion, that I obviously think is correct, and I want to convince other people to agree with me. But I'm open to changing my mind. That's why I made this thread - I wanted a discussion. I wanted to hear other people's ideas about what it's good and bad to spend money on. I wasn't trying to get everyone to point at laugh at Kairon. I should have expressed this better in my opening post. It was a mistake to start with an angry open letter.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #42 on:** March 09, 2007, 03:30:19 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering Instead, you should be supporting the artists behind Ico, Silent Hill, Shadow of the Colossus and Okami....well, not Okami. Too late for that.

That would require spending hours clutching the most horrid controller ever made.

I'll pass.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #43 on:** March 09, 2007, 07:57:28 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering Instead, you should be supporting the artists behind Ico, Silent Hill, Shadow of the Colossus and Okami....well, not Okami. Too late for that.

That would require spending hours clutching the most horrid controller ever made.

I'll pass.

It is really quite sad that the PS3 controller is basically the same controller since the original PS1 gamepad (Excluding the oh so innovative dual analog sticks). DERAILED!

KDR_11k · « **Reply #44 on:** March 09, 2007, 08:00:09 PM »

I think S_B wasn't around for some of the great innovation during the Atari 2600 period.

ShyGuy · « **Reply #45 on:** March 10, 2007, 02:52:10 AM »

The original PS1 controller was much better due to the fact that you just had a d-pad. Granted it's an uncomfortable d-pad, but at least you didn't have to stress your thumb tendons reaching for those analog sticks in the middle. I still haven't tried a Wii classic controller, and I'm kinda leary, but people says it's better because the analog sticks are closer and at a better angle.

segagamer12 · « **Reply #46 on:** March 10, 2007, 10:12:07 AM »

2600 maynot have been innovative, but 5200 *deserves* the credit for 2 concepts Nintendo always gets the credit for, first being analog stick, second being 4 controller ports.

See how influencial Atari was on thegaming community? Join me in my quest ot revive thier tainted *name.

*
(atari fanboyisms are all jokes dont take it seriously Im sega all the way.)

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #47 on:** March 10, 2007, 10:19:22 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
2600 maynot have been innovative, but 5200 *deserves* the credit for 2 concepts Nintendo always gets the credit for, first being analog stick, second being 4 controller ports.

See how influencial Atari was on thegaming community? Join me in my quest ot revive thier tainted *name.

*
(atari fanboyisms are all jokes dont take it seriously Im sega all the way.)

I may be mistaken, but wasn't the joystick for the Atari nothing like the one on N64 (and I don't mean size wise). If anything though that joystick on Atari is what helped cause the crash of gaming in the 80s, so it gets NO credit.

segagamer12 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 10, 2007, 10:27:52 AM »

Its actualyl better than N64 crappy analog stick. And 5200 didnt really contribute tot he crash, it came out late in the year and wasn't even a sucessful system.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #49 on:** March 10, 2007, 04:00:05 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I think S_B wasn't around for some of the great innovation during the Atari 2600 period.

It's still kicking around my parent's house somewhere.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #50 on:** March 10, 2007, 05:48:29 PM »

I don't mean specifically the 2600 but other stuff released at the time. Controllers with a number pad on them, anyone?

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #51 on:** March 11, 2007, 04:29:04 AM »

Intellivision and Coleco didn't cramp my hands like the dual shock.

darknight06 · « **Reply #52 on:** March 11, 2007, 07:28:33 AM »

The 5200 barely had any games that really used it in any meaningful way. There's a reason they went back to the original joystick design of the 2600 with the 7800. The N64 was one of the first real uses of it, YOU CANNOT DENY THAT!

As for this thread, it's trash. I'll buy what I want to buy within reason, and that's all there is to it. A 360 is not in reason and neither is a PS3. Both are way too expensive for something that supposed to be a leisurely pasttime after you purchase the system, the games, a live subscription in the case of 360, and an HDTV. I also didn't go buying all 3 systems last generation, mainly because outside of a couple games, there would be a favorite getting the majority of play while the others sit there collecting dust which is as far as I'm concerned it's a waste of money that could go to something far more important.

Release a quality GAME and I'll buy it, I'm not gonna care who made it. And when I say game, I'm talking quality design, not ART. All the art I'll ever want is on my wall and my movie collections, plus the work I do either for myself or for money. It's the very reason why whenever people bring up ICO, SoTC, Zelda WW, or even Okami I cringe. You want to talk about non-games, these are borderline. Yeah they look great, they're "epic", but the game design took a bit of a backseat in all of them.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #53 on:** March 11, 2007, 08:06:11 AM »

Did you play Okami before pronouncing it a non-game? Neither Okami nor Wind Waker are any less of a valid game than, say, Quake. You can make a good game while still going for an unconventional art style.

darknight06 · « **Reply #54 on:** March 11, 2007, 08:41:58 AM »

I played it, and I sure as hell didn't think much of it.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #55 on:** March 11, 2007, 09:05:23 AM »

So how did you reach the conclusion that it's borderline non-game?

segagamer12 · « **Reply #56 on:** March 11, 2007, 10:16:06 AM »

I never said it was great just that they *DID* have it first. It doesnt matter who used it best. I know they didn't have much faith in it as envidenced by thier crappy Jaguar controller. All I was saying is Atari had some pretty good innovations back in the day, regardless of what they did with it. YOU CAN NOT DENY THAT EITHER.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #57 on:** March 11, 2007, 10:21:42 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
I never said it was great just that they *DID* have it first. It doesnt matter who used it best. I know they didn't have much faith in it as envidenced by thier crappy Jaguar controller. All I was saying is Atari had some pretty good innovations back in the day, regardless of what they did with it. YOU CAN NOT DENY THAT EITHER.

You also cannot deny they were a big factor in gaming crashing either.

segagamer12 · « **Reply #58 on:** March 11, 2007, 10:32:31 AM »

Well yeah thats true to. I never said contrary to that thought. Well um, so how about that pac-man huh?

Kairon · « **Reply #59 on:** March 11, 2007, 10:43:26 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Buy games because you think you'll like them. The end.

That's what I'm saying!

Then where's the disagreement?

Besides, I barely have any time for all the Nintendo games I'm buying, so why do you think I should spend more money on more console hardware that in the end is ultimately redundant and takes up space, both physically and mentally? Heck, I HAVE a PC and the next PC game I'm anticipating playing is Age of Conan in like... 8 months!

Also, I enjoyed Call of Duty 3. I NEVER wanted to play that game online or multiplayer, and my dorm blocks the Wii online ports anyways. I'm not even a graphics whore. I wanted a single player experience because that's what I enjoyed from the first CoD on the PC, and I pretty much got it. I'm quite happy with that purchase, especially because I think dual analog FPS control is THE DEVIL. (though I'm having real trouble getting back into Red Steel after having fun with both Call of Duty and Far Cry... hmmm) I HIGHLY enjoy FPS games in the single-player vein (co-op too please? co-op makes almost anything an insta-buy for me!), ignore PvP aspects to them, (if I wanted that I'd play Planetside) and that's why I plan on buying Medal of Honor Vanguard and Brother in Arms in the future.

You may now cry into your chamomille tea with that last bit of news.

Actually, if anything, I feel that Nintendo fans should NOT be buying Nintendo games. Nintendo games sell well anyways, and last on the shelves for many months. Mario Galaxy will be on store shelves for a YEAR at least, but how about Space Station Tycoon? Third party games disappear sooner and have a rougher time of it. When in doubt, delay buying Nintendo-developed games and spend your money where it can make the most difference.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

P.S. And your supposed crappy-games actually succeed in this industry and its mainstream wandering. Dismissing them out of hand is, I believe, small-minded.

darknight06 · « **Reply #60 on:** March 11, 2007, 11:54:12 AM »

Quote
Actually, if anything, I feel that Nintendo fans should NOT be buying Nintendo games. Nintendo games sell well anyways, and last on the shelves for many months. Nintendo games sell well anyways, and last on the shelves for many months. Mario Galaxy will be on store shelves for a YEAR at least, but how about Space Station Tycoon?

That would not be mine, or anyone else's responsibility. Those developer houses are a BUSINESS, not your friend to nurse. They can't keep a game on the shelf for over two months, that is THEIR PROBLEM!

For me, a lot of the reason I buy a Nintendo system is to:
a. play quality Nintendo games (that doesn't mean all, I know which ones are throwaways)
b. play any quality 3rd party title that comes around.

You holding back your dollar vote on something like Mario Galaxy for a third party title isn't gonna stop me or the majority at least the hardcore audience with a Wii from getting that sucker on launch day. Doesn't mean I won't get the next Need For Speed or whatever other high profile game that might come out because it's third party, but the first new console Mario in years is definitely going to be higher priority. Also, I don't have money to throw away on trash. I know you like to tout Far Cry as being a good game, but there's no way in my right mind that I could justify buying that port of it. Played it in Gamecrazy and almost puked, which was disappointing to me since that was one game I was anticipating on the system, anticipating in the same sense that I would Mario Galaxy. I gave DS games more leeway because they were cheaper to get a hold of but I cannot do that for any console. I better damn well be sure I'm gonna like it before I throw down the cash.

segagamer12 · « **Reply #61 on:** March 11, 2007, 12:05:13 PM »

or buy them used and save money.

darknight06 · « **Reply #62 on:** March 11, 2007, 12:19:13 PM »

When a system first launches, typically used games are about $5 under retail, that's still mid 40s. By the time they do go down that far, chances are I've got another current title either out or about to be released that I'm looking to get.

Kairon · « **Reply #63 on:** March 11, 2007, 12:47:38 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: darknight06
Quote
Actually, if anything, I feel that Nintendo fans should NOT be buying Nintendo games. Nintendo games sell well anyways, and last on the shelves for many months. Nintendo games sell well anyways, and last on the shelves for many months. Mario Galaxy will be on store shelves for a YEAR at least, but how about Space Station Tycoon?

That would not be mine, or anyone else's responsibility. Those developer houses are a BUSINESS, not your friend to nurse. They can't keep a game on the shelf for over two months, that is THEIR PROBLEM!

For me, a lot of the reason I buy a Nintendo system is to:
a. play quality Nintendo games (that doesn't mean all, I know which ones are throwaways)
b. play any quality 3rd party title that comes around.

But it's a fanbois responsibility. That's what seperates us from regular fans or gamers. *shrug*

Also, I'm not saying you should enjoy FarCry. But the fact is that there are gems out there that are overlooked, and in addition to the difficulty that these games have getting noticed, nintendo gamers overlooking third parties almost instinctively is just another straw on the camel's back. All I'm saying is keep open-minded, even if you don't buy many third party games: don't get into the lazy-minded habit of waiting for the next mario title to the detriment of everything else. That's game prejudice.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

darknight06 · « **Reply #64 on:** March 11, 2007, 03:05:16 PM »

Your responsibility, yeah. Mine, umm, how about no. That's not lazy-minded, that's knowing what the hell you want. Now that I think about it, there are other games out there I know for certain I will get along with that. DDR Hottest Party. Guitar Hero. Those two are guaranteed. Strong consideration for Dewy. Possibly Mercury Revolution, the PSP game was interesting to me. If the rumor of Guilty Gear XX Accent Core is true, I'll have that as well.

By the way, Bandai Namco isn't some small company. The group making the game might be, but BN isn't. They should be able to adequately get the game name recognition and shelf presence for the sales to happen. If they don't THEY screwed up.

Caliban · « **Reply #65 on:** March 11, 2007, 05:36:10 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Quote
100+ M-I-L-L-I-O-N PS2s were sold...do you really think they needed our support?

It couldn't hurt.

Haha, you're funny...not really...wait let me scratch my armpit so I can giggle...*scratches*...nope, didn't giggle.

segagamer12 · « **Reply #66 on:** March 11, 2007, 05:40:13 PM »

Then it is matter of *choice* not nescesity. You could *chose* to wait until more games comeout and prices to drop, then buy more games at the lower price. You don't have to get every game you want right now.

If a game is good enough to pay full price, or if it's one you know is good enough to pay full price, then pay full price. If your not sure, then you can always wait for the price to come down, then get the game at a lower price and enjoy it more because you got what you paid for.

A used sale might be on less for Nintendo, but look at it this way, somebody had to own it first for it to be used.

TrueNerd · « **Reply #67 on:** March 11, 2007, 06:15:37 PM »

Except for the "ICO/SotC/Okami is a shallow non-game" comments, there's a lot to agree with in this thread, even if it isn't all presented ideally.

Kairon · « **Reply #68 on:** March 11, 2007, 07:04:09 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: darknight06
Your responsibility, yeah. Mine, umm, how about no. That's not lazy-minded, that's knowing what the hell you want. Now that I think about it, there are other games out there I know for certain I will get along with that. DDR Hottest Party. Guitar Hero. Those two are guaranteed. Strong consideration for Dewy. Possibly Mercury Revolution, the PSP game was interesting to me. If the rumor of Guilty Gear XX Accent Core is true, I'll have that as well.

By the way, Bandai Namco isn't some small company. The group making the game might be, but BN isn't. They should be able to adequately get the game name recognition and shelf presence for the sales to happen. If they don't THEY screwed up.

Why are we arguing? You're doing exactly the thing I'm advocating: not closing your eyes to third party offerings just because they're third party. Being honest with ourselves to know what we want, and being free to buy them (budget allowing of course)... We're espousing the same thing!

...Heck, I found Mercury on the PSP to be boring as hell, but that shouldn't stop you. Just like I bought FarCry, you can consider Mercury on the Wii!!!

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

WuTangTurtle · « **Reply #69 on:** March 15, 2007, 12:42:23 PM »

You know what everyone should do, get a friend and force each other to play a game they normally wouldn't try for a week or two. If your friend doesn't like it you guys could switch games. Call it "Gamer 101" i don't care, ppl are willing to play a game when a buddie gives a game some credit. It never hurts to expand your horizons guys, and this applies to everything not just games. For instance a buddy of mine got me into FLCL, and I got him into Invader Zim.

segagamer12 · « **Reply #70 on:** March 15, 2007, 01:06:10 PM »

It doesnt work, my friends like Halo, Madden and Mortal Kombat, everything else they could care less about. Everyone likes Zelda but nobody wants to get it. They all wanna barrow the 1 Gc copy in town.

News:

Author Topic: Your misguided sense of loyalty is hurting the games industry (Read 12970 times)