Author Topic: Editorial: Playing By Party Lines (Read 21580 times)

Nemo4ever · « **Reply #25 on:** January 13, 2005, 01:47:42 PM »

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On the one hand, lots of guy gamers feel like girl characters are meant for the girls. They think that they're wimpy.

I think guys like that fall into the more "casual" category of gamer. I'm a huge Street Fighter fan and if I'm playing somebody who refuses to pick a girl, I know this isn't going to be a very fun match and I likely won't play them again. In a game where your character has little bearing on how the game plays or how you perform (i.e. FPS) I can see why a guy might avoid using a female character as it adds little to the experience. Otherwise, they're just missing out. I honestly have no patience for that kind of attitude.

As for the characters you pick, I say screw it. Pick your favorite or best characters and play like you would any other time. I personally despise doing anything other than what I would naturally do in a situation. It makes me feel fake and unnatural. I think your goal in any gaming situation is to get the guys to respect you and your skills as much as they respect each other's.

However, you're going to have to contend with stereotypes about girl gamers no matter what. Most girls aren't serious gamers and we guys are used to having to take it easy on them. The best you can do is just go into the situation with a good attitude and, if need be, inform the guys that, at least as far as the game is concerned, you're a player first and a girl second.

If you want to see the opposite of the stereotypical "quick, but weak" female character, check out Makoto in Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike. Not only is the girl quick, but she's got some real oomph to her combos. Watching a high-level player use Makoto is thrilling.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #26 on:** January 13, 2005, 02:02:52 PM »

My friend plays as Peach in Smash Bros. While one may, offhand, assume that this is was done in a joking manner, it has become a part of our friendship (between him, a few other friends, and me, not just the two of us). "Whoop-cha!" is a common catch-phrase of ours now (the sound she makes with her -> + B move).
I often use female characters, too, but like a woman can relate to females, I, being a guy, tend to relate to guys. I usually use Marth in Smash Bros, but Zelda/Sheik is the next runner-up.
As for adventure games, I don't find women to be overly feminine, and I think the editorial over-exaggerates the incapability of Peach and Zelda. In OoT, Zelda helps you out plenty (granted, as Sheik most of the time, but it is her), and in WW she's the tough Tetra (though as a princess she's more meek, but I'd be a bit stunned if I found out I was a princess, too).
Peach, less so. However, her role is not always that of the simple damsel in distress. In the Paper Marios she is captured, yes, but she assists Mario in every way she can, taking many risks. It is very reserved, but Peach isn't exactly the best example for tough gal extroardinaire anyway. Just wanted to point out she isn't a total wimp

Someone mentioned Fire Emblem. That's undoubtedly the best representation of girls I've seen in video games, surpassing stereotpyical princess or typical RPG girls (Aeris, Tifa, whoever from FFX) and not so far off the scale of bad-assness as Samus (who is pretty much tougher than any of Nintendo's male heroes).
Anyway, I just delved far too deeply into the idea of female characters in video games, and I'm feeling a bit ridiculous (not because they're girls, but because they're video games, mind you), so I'm off to study French.

SgtShiversBen · « **Reply #27 on:** January 13, 2005, 02:29:26 PM »

Hey, I may not relate to girls (even though I play as them in the games alot). But for some reason we're able to relate to a Fox (or in my case a Falcon/Tucan thing). To me, we're not supposed to really relate to them but we're just supposed to be taking over their lives for the simple part. Some games may seem a bit feesible (RE4, Halo) and all that, but when is the last time you saw an "El Gigante" or a little purple guy screaming "THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!" I think this is how games should be. I don't want a real life situation, aka GTA, or a game I can play outside, Madden. I want something where I know I can turn it on and immense myself in a sort of fairy tale that will never happen. That's why choosing a girl is something preferable. I don't want to be a girl in real life, but being one in games is pretty funny because of some of the things you get in Tales. Oh well.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #28 on:** January 13, 2005, 02:38:27 PM »

My stance should be clear. (i'm a dude, yes)

Peach is absolutely deadly in Super Smash Bros. Melee.

And Daisy is an undoubtedly incredible player in Mario Power Tennis.

Avinash_Tyagi · « **Reply #29 on:** January 13, 2005, 02:38:32 PM »

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What? Sheik is only refered to as a girl in Melee because Zelda and Sheik are known as one...Before her identity was revealed, her alter-ego definitely was playing as a male

Pretending to be a male and actually being one are two different things Bill, Zelda was pretending to be one.

Avinash_Tyagi · « **Reply #30 on:** January 13, 2005, 02:40:12 PM »

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Magical disguise. How deep did it run? Was she still Zelda underneath, and may have been physically attracted to Link? Or did she become male, in body and spirit, and develop homosexual feelings for Link? Or was Sheik just an effeminate guy, with a warrior's camaraderie with Link? And how much of any of those feelings did she retain? We'll never know. That mystery is part of the appeal of Sheik.

Of course we know, it already states it in the Sheik description, Zelda magically alters her clothes, hair and Eye color, but still remains a girl.

FYI: this isn't new in terms of japanese style animation, in anime cartoons there are repeated examples of girls masquerading as guys and vice versa.

NiGHTS · « **Reply #31 on:** January 13, 2005, 02:58:12 PM »

it wouldve be better if you actually took the time to read the article, as she expresses, Sheik is such a bad ass character because she changed her identity, as we all remember no one expected Shiek to be a woman, much less princess Zelda, which implies in some way that as a woman she's weak.

I did read the article but either way when zelda transforms all she is really doing is changing her clothes and maybe adding some hair spray. it does not make her a man or anything.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #32 on:** January 13, 2005, 03:11:51 PM »

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Originally posted by: Avinash_Tyagi
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What? Sheik is only refered to as a girl in Melee because Zelda and Sheik are known as one...Before her identity was revealed, her alter-ego definitely was playing as a male

Pretending to be a male and actually being one are two different things Bill, Zelda was pretending to be one.

You aren't getting it ;_;...I was saying that she was pretending to be male...(playing as male = acting as male = Zelda cosplaying as male) From your quote you made it seem as if Zelda was cosplaying as a female... (Sheik is refered to as a girl. Besides you can tell by the voice and the body structure that Sheik is female.) See?

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #33 on:** January 13, 2005, 03:30:55 PM »

Nuh uh.

Don't tell me Zelda broadened her shoulders, increased the muscular size and definition in her arms, and gained Bowflex-quality pecs and abs by putting on a catsuit. She's using her Triumph Fork to modify her physique as well as physical capability. It's beyond cosplay [or the ultimate cosplay?].

Refer to Super Smash Bros. Melee and Ocarina of Time, and SSBM's trophy mode for anatomical comparisons. Sheik and Zelda move and behave very differently. Frankly, I'm interested in seeing Zelda jump around like a Sheikah ninja in her usual princess' garb, but it just doesn't happen.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #34 on:** January 13, 2005, 03:35:18 PM »

I was giving a loose description...And you have no idea if what was on her was actually physical...Perhaps that's the reason why she wouldn't even let Link near her...(Sheik and Zelda move differently in SSB because it would be boring otherwise

)

KnowsNothing · « **Reply #35 on:** January 13, 2005, 03:38:12 PM »

If Zelda has the magical ability to change the physical characterstics of her hair and eyes instantly, she can change other physical things as well. Sheik is a man.

Dur.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #36 on:** January 13, 2005, 03:40:50 PM »

Thank You.

"It's not your Princess. It's a MAN, BABY!!"

oohhboy · « **Reply #37 on:** January 13, 2005, 03:56:02 PM »

I guess no body has met my sister. She will rip everybody a new one in SSBM. Although I can play with more charaters, she will take you down with Pikachu or Fox.

I also have a kick ass time playing CS with her since she is more than good enough to hold her own plus some against 75% of the players out there.

But from what i have gathered, this is the conclusion I have arrived at. Your gamer or your not regardless if your gender. I have met girls who will play games, but no matter what can't win.

Ms.Pikmin · « **Reply #38 on:** January 13, 2005, 04:26:18 PM »

I'm not sure it matters too much whether girls choose girl characters to play during party games. I play fighting games with guys who only use female characters. The women in Soul Calibur are definitely not weak. Although I suspect the loyalty to these characters during play has more to do with abundance of cleavage and lack of skirt than anything, the characters are still strong. I personally have no preference either way. I try to choose different characters so I can learn the moves of as many as possible.

Something that does bug me to no end is the type of games that are marketed directly to girls. WHY is it thought that girls want trash such as the Mary-Kate and Ashley games, Barbie or So Raven. It disgusts me to see "Real Games for Real Girls" on the boxes to that crap.

Djunknown · « **Reply #39 on:** January 13, 2005, 04:36:20 PM »

Interesting story. Its an issue I don't give much thought, since when I mention I'm a gamer to most girls, they go "uh...okay." or "Not you too!" One girl wanted me to stop playing my GBA if I were to date her. She was a real looker, but I wasn't going to stop something that I enjoy doing since childhood just so I could feed her ego.

At my 'local' arcade, I usally see girls mixin' it up at DDR, but are far away from SNK Vs Capcom. They're pretty damn good too.

As mentioned earlier, female characters in fighting games kick as much ass as their male counterparts. 'Nuff said.

My only interaction with a girl gamer was at gamestop a few years ago, she was a knowledgeable associate who reccomended many fine games to me. She wasn't a pushy salesperson either, so she got a lot of my business when she worked there.

But in the end, I'd like to belive its all about the skills. I don't think the buttons discriminate the person pushing them.

NWR_Lindy · « **Reply #40 on:** January 13, 2005, 04:41:14 PM »

I would love to have a girlfriend that was a competent gamer. I had an ex that used to pay SSBM with me and was pretty good, but eventually I pulled away and started consistently whipping her ass. Eventually she got on a "you need to grow up and stop gaming so much" kick, then I saw her recently and she was jawing about how she's addicted to playing Halo on XBoxConnect. Go figure.

Women.

silks

armedalliance · « **Reply #41 on:** January 13, 2005, 04:53:06 PM »

I really felt like commenting on this topic... it's kind of strange because I know a *LOT* of girls who love video games. Two of my Four best friends are girls (I'm male if anyone needed to know) and they both play. One of them has only really played a bit of Final Fantasy VII but knows the game inside and out from how far she's gone (she has no time to really sit down and play sadly). The other girl is an obsessive player. She holds competitions with who can beat FFVII the fastest (in real-time, not in play-time). Also... I feel a little proud to say this... I pretty much showed my girlfriend the light to video games. She had a NES and one game. Zelda. She hated Zelda at the time. Later she had a Playstation with a few games like Spyro and Croc. After I started dating her though, I introduced her to Gamecube and intrigued her. I also let hew borrow some of my Playstation games like Wild ARMs 2, Chrono Cross, etc. She after that bought FFVII, FFVIII and FFIX on her own, Animal Crossing on GC and so on. Afterwards I reintroduced her to Zelda once the Collector's Edition came out. She has her own copy now. I recently got her a PSTwo (Early Christmas present), and she's looking forward to a lot of games now. So in a way... I helped her to realize that games go beyond Spyro

Right now she's working on Baten Kaitos, Wild ARMs 3, Final Fantasy X, Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (GB verison) and Star Ocean III. I'm probably forgetting something, but she's doing pretty good considering. I don't think I've ever been that behind on my collection before. I'm used to beating game in less than a week... some of the easier games in two days. Baten Kaitos took me 6 days (48 hours) to complete. I slacked off one of the days though because I was tired and expected to get into the game with no problems. I put it down 20 minutes in because I was bored and overcomplicated it. Currently I'm working on Lord of the Rings: The Third Age on GC and Super Mario 64 DS. I'm also playing through Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past for my 6th time now but (yay me). Hope this post interested someone... if not... *fake-cries*

Renny · « **Reply #42 on:** January 13, 2005, 05:42:13 PM »

Good article, but every 'girl gamer article' forgets Cate Archer. She was strong physically and in character. And despite playing in first person, you didn't 'feel male' while playing. You often heard her voice while in-game, and you were subjected to lame pick-up lines from amorous NPCs. So appropriately its sales were abysmal. Even though she was hot. Just wanted to give props to Monolith for giving Cate two games in the face of financial failure.

"When you spot a girl confidently picking up a controller, it makes you go all fuzzy inside."

I think we all identify with this. ;¬]

S-U-P-E-R · « **Reply #43 on:** January 13, 2005, 07:56:24 PM »

I don't see a reason to not include female characters in a lot of games out. I'm thinking along the lines of Pokemon, where initially you only had the guy to play as, but they gave you a choice to play as an equivalent female character by Ruby/Sapphire. I don't see a reason not to do this in games where it wouldn't really matter, and it's win/win for the video game company whether it actually attracts some more girl players or just creepy internet fanboys. CHUN LI I LUV U!@!1111//

Terranigma Freak · « **Reply #44 on:** January 14, 2005, 05:28:14 AM »

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Terrinigma Freak - if you think no women care about or buy videogames, you're living in a hole. The girl gamer world may be small, but we're growing, no thanks to guys who stereotype women.

What in the world are you talking about? I was mainly complaining that Nintendo fans(male or female) ignores Nintendo's own franchises with strong female characters. It has nothing to do with whether or not women buy games. It's whether or not Nintendo fans buy Nintendo's games.

Avinash_Tyagi · « **Reply #45 on:** January 14, 2005, 07:57:11 AM »

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Don't tell me Zelda broadened her shoulders, increased the muscular size and definition in her arms, and gained Bowflex-quality pecs and abs by putting on a catsuit. She's using her Triumph Fork to modify her physique as well as physical capability. It's beyond cosplay [or the ultimate cosplay?].

Doubtful, in OoT we see very little that shows she has any expanded physical abilities while Sheik

In addition her gait in OoT doesn't look right for a guy (Women have a larger pelvic area)

Voice isn't a guy's voice it sounds faked (you hear her scream when she gets thrown while they are at the well)

As for her muscle structure simple explanation, molded plate under her costume combined with taping down her breasts.

As for the differences in SSBM, well you have to give her some moves in that game that were not in OoT otherwise her character would be a really poor fighter.

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If Zelda has the magical ability to change the physical characterstics of her hair and eyes instantly, she can change other physical things as well. Sheik is a man.

That's a logical fallacy, first you assume that changing gender is as simple as changing appearance when there is nothing to back that up, then you state that because of that it must be that she changed her gender, again nothing to back that up.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #46 on:** January 14, 2005, 08:29:09 AM »

"(Women have a larger pelvic area)"
What's your point? Sheik has virtually no pelvic area.

If you recall, when she changes back to Zelda there's sparkles and magical crap, so it's not so wrong to suggest that she altered her physique magically without actually changing her gender. That would explain how she looked, how she sounds, so everyone can stop whining.

Avinash_Tyagi · « **Reply #47 on:** January 14, 2005, 09:53:16 AM »

Actually she does, and you can see it in her gait as she walks, that's part of my point.

SgtShiversBen · « **Reply #48 on:** January 14, 2005, 09:56:43 AM »

Man, we're such nerds

arguing about Sheik's gender. I have no opinion on it because I thought that Sheik was a guy, but when I found out it was Zelda in a sort of "drag" I never gave it a second thought.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #49 on:** January 14, 2005, 03:54:27 PM »

Me neither, but it's fun to reason. Yeah, nerds is about right.

The sway of a woman's hips is an idiosyncracy that wouldn't disappear even after a change in physique. At that point in your life it's hardly physical, it's more mental than anything. And Sheik has hips, all people do, but they're not that wide.

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Author Topic: Editorial: Playing By Party Lines (Read 21580 times)