Topic: Project Cafe & Pre-E3 HYPE Thread

[Ian Sane]

  What was their excuse last generation?

The Gamecube sold like crap.  The rules were different then.  They were much higher on the idea of exclusives.  While there are a lot of multiplatform releases from that gen (and the Cube was occasionally included like with SC2 and Ubisoft's games) exclusives were much more common.  The PS2 has tons of exclusives.  Even games that became multiplatform like GTA III and Vice City started off as PS2 exclusives and were only ported to the Xbox years later.

[Stogi]

Sounds like the goal posts keep moving...

[Chozo Ghost]

Sounds like the goal posts keep moving...

Indeed. Anyway, if Nintendo had done what Ian suggests and released a $400-$600 system which would have been powerful enough to handle multiplatform games it would have sold like **** and then it still would miss out on multiplatform games because it would have been in 3rd place.

[BlackNMild2k1]

What was their excuse last generation?

Mini-DVD.... not enough space. No game for you [/game nazi]

[ShyGuy]

Xbox wasn't much better than the Cube in sales, but Microsoft got the ports.

I remember the 3rd party excuse for not bringing the next Godzilla game to the cube was no online. I wanted to punch somebody right in their skyscraper.

[Shaymin]

Nintendo Gamecube: Less disc space, no sales
3rd parties: LOL

Nintendo Wii: Standard disc, outsells competition, but underpowered/with waggle
3rd parties: LOL

Nintendo Super Wii: Next-gen disc, just as powerful, standard controller
3rd parties: LOL

Nintendo can't win.

* Shaymin notes that Ubisoft *DING* telegraphing their shovelware should get their license to develop for Nintendo pulled

[NWR_insanolord]

Can we at least wait until Nintendo officially announces the console to start whining about third party support?

[Adrock]

@ShyGuy - Microsoft also liked to open its wallets from time to time. That's why Xbox got ports. And clearly, it wasn't enough for them to not give on their hardware after only 4 years and launch 360.

[Chozo Ghost]

Can we at least wait until Nintendo officially announces the console to start whining about third party support?

They may not have announced the console, but they did announce that they will announce it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/05/14/tecmo_koei_earnings/

Noting that Tecmo Koei is trusted by hardware makers as a third party that will always have a titles ready in time for a platform's launch, he said that he'd like have launch titles for Nintendo's Wii 2 successor platform.

http://www.1up.com/news/fatal-frame-producer-announcing-title

In the latest issue of Japan's Famitsu magazine, Fatal Frame producer Keisuke Kikuchi stated that he expects to unveil the title he and his team's currently working on sooner than later.

"I can't discuss exact details yet, but we are working hard on something right now," Kikuchi told Famitsu. "I think we'll be able to make an announcement soon, so I hope people look forward to it."

Nothing really exciting, just connecting some dots, but also adding some creamer to your cafe
Trying to make some froth.... are you frothing yet?

[Louieturkey]

I hope this means good things for Beyond Good & Evil 2 ::crosses fingers::

Ancel has stated in a recent French magazine that the game is on hold due to limitations of current hardware. Could this mean he wants to move it to the Cafe?

[Ceric]

I hope this means good things for Beyond Good & Evil 2 ::crosses fingers::

Ancel has stated in a recent French magazine that the game is on hold due to limitations of current hardware. Could this mean he wants to move it to the Cafe?

We all know he's waiting for the Nintendo On.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I hope this means good things for Beyond Good & Evil 2 ::crosses fingers::

Ancel has stated in a recent French magazine that the game is on hold due to limitations of current hardware. Could this mean he wants to move it to the Cafe?

We all know he's waiting for the Nintendo On.

We're all waiting for the Nintendo On.

[BlackNMild2k1]

A promising comment from Iwata regarding Nintendo's future & E3

Iwata: Next, regarding the subject of overseas, there was an era in the past, which was until the time of PlayStation 2, when games made in Japan sold well all over the world. However, I think that, over the past three or four years, the presence of Japanese software developers has become relatively small. Nintendo is doing what overseas software developers do not do, so Nintendo's software is selling relatively well also in foreign countries, but for the software oriented to enthusiastic game players, such as "Call of Duty," the ones created by overseas developers are more mainstream in the overseas markets. In addition, because the expressions in games are becoming more and more photo-realistic, I imagine that the cultural differences in acceptance have started to be reflected more clearly. I think this is the reason why western users tend to prefer software created overseas than software from Japanese software developers.

Of course, Nintendo will continue to run a business by creating Nintendo-like games, but we will not be able to meet the various tastes of consumers by only doing this, so I feel that it will become necessary to reinforce the development resources in the foreign countries. Therefore, I hope we will be able to show you something like that at E3.

Nintendo E3 Conference Countdown

[broodwars]

In addition, because the expressions in games are becoming more and more photo-realistic, I imagine that the cultural differences in acceptance have started to be reflected more clearly. I think this is the reason why western users tend to prefer software created overseas than software from Japanese software developers.

Yeah, that quote was posted as a news story on NWR a while back, and I still call B.S. on it.  Western gamers haven't started to ignore Eastern games because we want "photo-realistic" graphics, but because Eastern games have largely sucked or been fairly mediocre for quite a few years now as the Japanese games industry has rested on its laurels (as Inafune famously proclaimed).  I'm happy that Nintendo wants to work more with overseas developers, but without understanding why non-Nintendo Japanese games are having trouble finding a western audience these days they won't reach their full potential.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I wasn't posting it as new news, it's from the Investors meeting last month.

Just trying to add some frothing demand for E3....
more creme for your cafe so to speak.

[Louieturkey]

I like creme.  Foam!!

[Ian Sane]

Hey if Iwata's naive assumption that Western gamers prefer Western games inspires him to make Cafe attractive to Western third parties, then I'm all for it.

One thing I've noticed is that the REALLY long running videogame series are generally Japanese.  So maybe we're just tired of playing Mario and Final Fantasy games like we've been doing for over 20 years.  Yeah Activision will milk the **** out of Guitar Hero to the point that it becomes annoying, but then they just cut it off like that when it no longer was popular.  The big Western franchises right now are not that old.  We're not still playing Impossible Mission.  We seem to get something milked pretty hard but for a short period of time.  So while Nintendo is giving us one Mario platformer on the Gamecube, Naughty Dog released an entire TRILOGY of Jak and Daxter games on the PS2.  It seemed like overkill to me to have three games in one generation.  But we don't see Naughty Dog making Jak games right now.  They're making Uncharted games.  They milked one franchise and have now started another.

Halo is only in its second console generation.  Same with God of War and Call of Duty.  GTA is in the third but it has only been a big hit for two.  Gears of War is new this gen.  So is Bioshock.  Yeah franchises get milked as hard as anything in Japan but they seem to fit in new stuff quite a lot in between and franchises die out while new ones take their place.  It works well with different generations of gamers who identify and grow up with different franchises then their parents did.

Now Japan introduces new stuff, too.  But they are still cranking out Mario, Mega Man, Sonic, Final Fantasy, etc. decades running.  And even while some of those maintain a good level of quality the younger gamers don't connect with them.  Hell Nintendo should have realized this themselves when a whole generation was raised on Pokemon and was willing to buy a GBA for a new Pokemon but not a Gamecube for a new Mario.

Right now the Western scene has a lot of new faces and at the same time Japanese game quality has gone downhill.  In 20 years if Western devs are still relying on GTA and Halo, they're going to be the ones wondering why people are buying less Western games.

[Chozo Ghost]

I don't see why Nintendo can't design games specifically for the western market. I know Nintendo of Japan can't do that, but there is NOA and whatever Nintendo has in Europe. Why can't they be beefed up and given the autonomy and resources to do their own in house development of games tailored specifically to the tastes of their respective regions?

[BlackNMild2k1]

IGN collaborated with their "sources" and built a Cafe.
http://gear.ign.com/articles/116/1168222p1.html

Based on the information we received and with help from our sources, we found retail PC components comparable to the ones Nintendo is expected to use in their new system and built a mock console of our own.

We called upon our trusted sources to help us determine the retail products with the closest possible clock speed and power, as well as fill in some of the blanks for other components, like finding a suitable motherboard and appropriate amount of RAM.

Our system comprises of the following:
-CPU: 3.2GHz Triple Core AMD Athlon II X3 450
-GPU: XFX Radeon HD 4850 GPU with 1GBs of VRAM
-Motherboard: BIOSTAR A780L3L Micro ATX
-RAM: 2GBs of Kingston DDR3
-Power Supply: Rosewill RV350 ATX 1.3
-Hard Drive: 80GB WD Caviar Blue 7200RPM

Though the parts we used are comparable, our sources say there will be some significant variation in the final product. For one, the CPU is likely to be clocked above 3.2GHz and the GPU will feature a tweaked design but a similar speed to the HD 4850 we used. Most importantly, the Wii 2/Project Cafe's total RAM is likely to be 1GB, but we added an extra GB to offset the Windows 7 OS, which is pretty taxing otherwise.

In total, our system cost $423.93, which, of course, accounts for retail markup. In the case of Nintendo, hardware and production costs will be drastically lower given the high volume at which the components will be produced, though the final retail price could be upwards of $300.

I think the most interesting thing is that they (at the suggestion of their "sources") used a 4850 which is pretty much near the top of the R700 food chain. They said it was for similar clock speed, but I can only assume it's because of similar feature set and power too (in other words, because it's the base model that is being customized).


It was being speculated that Nintendo would go with a 4770 which was roughly 3-4x a PS360, but now IGN is suggesting a 4850 which would put it 3-5x as powerful as a PS360. Not a HUGE difference (from what I've been reading), but more is better. Lets just hope they are off on the RAM and Nintendo goes 1.5GB minimum for total system memory.


edit:---------------------
Don't read IGN's conclusions of their test. They put an unoptimized PC against an optimized 360 and were slightly underwhelmed. In a closed box with a tweaked 4850, the difference will be MUCH greater, but even still, only to those that are really looking for more detail.

[Luigi Dude]

Now Japan introduces new stuff, too.  But they are still cranking out Mario, Mega Man, Sonic, Final Fantasy, etc. decades running.  And even while some of those maintain a good level of quality the younger gamers don't connect with them.  Hell Nintendo should have realized this themselves when a whole generation was raised on Pokemon and was willing to buy a GBA for a new Pokemon but not a Gamecube for a new Mario.

I wouldn't use that as a good example since 3D Mario was never as popular as the 2D Mario's and the only Mario platformer on the Gamecube was a 3D one that also had one of the worst advertisements of all time that a lot of people think it was a cleaning simulator.  In comparison, the all new 2D Mario platformers, New Super Mario Bros on both the DS and Wii have gone on to each sell over 20 million copies and are the number 2 and 3 best selling Mario platformers behind only the original.  Not to mention the spinoff are also selling better then ever and Mario Kart Wii is guaranteed to break the 30 million mark by the end of the Wii's lifespan, which shows that the Mario franchise is still very relevant, even with today's young generation.

Actually most of Nintendo's series are doing better then ever or just as good as previous games.  This is why Nintendo shouldn't be counted with the rest of the Japanese industry since Nintendo has managed to make their longtime series still appeal to current gamers in all territories.

I don't see why Nintendo can't design games specifically for the western market. I know Nintendo of Japan can't do that, but there is NOA and whatever Nintendo has in Europe. Why can't they be beefed up and given the autonomy and resources to do their own in house development of games tailored specifically to the tastes of their respective regions?

The reason Nintendo doesn't do this is because like I said above, most of Nintendo's series are already very popular in America and Europe.  Nintendo designs most of their games to have universal appeal and can be played by everyone which is why they do so well all around the world.

[Chozo Ghost]

The reason Nintendo doesn't do this is because like I said above, most of Nintendo's series are already very popular in America and Europe.  Nintendo designs most of their games to have universal appeal and can be played by everyone which is why they do so well all around the world.

I agree, and I'm not saying that should be diminished in any way... all I was saying is that new IPs could be created to supplement that, not to replace it.

[Luigi Dude]

I agree, and I'm not saying that should be diminished in any way... all I was saying is that new IPs could be created to supplement that, not to replace it.

Yeah I do agree that there are some western genres, particularly the FPS genre that having a western studio would be good for.  Of course what I think Nintendo should do is just increase the size of Retro so they can handle more then one game at a time.  They need to turn Retro into something like Rare in there prime that can handle multiple project at once and are capable of releasing a dozen games each gen.

[broodwars]

I agree, and I'm not saying that should be diminished in any way... all I was saying is that new IPs could be created to supplement that, not to replace it.

Yeah I do agree that there are some western genres, particularly the FPS genre that having a western studio would be good for.  Of course what I think Nintendo should do is just increase the size of Retro so they can handle more then one game at a time.  They need to turn Retro into something like Rare in there prime that can handle multiple project at once and are capable of releasing a dozen games each gen.

Given the vast droughts on the N64 and long delays for especially Rare software, can we really say that Rare in their prime could actually handle multiple projects at once?   

I do agree, though, that Nintendo needs to invest in expanding Retro Studios.  They are certainly their best Western Studio, if not a strong candidate for their best overall studio IMO.  If they won't do that, acquiring or establishing new studios in the West would certainly be beneficial under the right guidance.

[NWR_insanolord]

IGN collaborated with their "sources" and built a Cafe.
http://gear.ign.com/articles/116/1168222p1.html

Based on the information we received and with help from our sources, we found retail PC components comparable to the ones Nintendo is expected to use in their new system and built a mock console of our own.

We called upon our trusted sources to help us determine the retail products with the closest possible clock speed and power, as well as fill in some of the blanks for other components, like finding a suitable motherboard and appropriate amount of RAM.

Our system comprises of the following:
-CPU: 3.2GHz Triple Core AMD Athlon II X3 450
-GPU: XFX Radeon HD 4850 GPU with 1GBs of VRAM
-Motherboard: BIOSTAR A780L3L Micro ATX
-RAM: 2GBs of Kingston DDR3
-Power Supply: Rosewill RV350 ATX 1.3
-Hard Drive: 80GB WD Caviar Blue 7200RPM

Though the parts we used are comparable, our sources say there will be some significant variation in the final product. For one, the CPU is likely to be clocked above 3.2GHz and the GPU will feature a tweaked design but a similar speed to the HD 4850 we used. Most importantly, the Wii 2/Project Cafe's total RAM is likely to be 1GB, but we added an extra GB to offset the Windows 7 OS, which is pretty taxing otherwise.

In total, our system cost $423.93, which, of course, accounts for retail markup. In the case of Nintendo, hardware and production costs will be drastically lower given the high volume at which the components will be produced, though the final retail price could be upwards of $300.

I think the most interesting thing is that they (at the suggestion of their "sources") used a 4850 which is pretty much near the top of the R700 food chain. They said it was for similar clock speed, but I can only assume it's because of similar feature set and power too (in other words, because it's the base model that is being customized).


It was being speculated that Nintendo would go with a 4770 which was roughly 3-4x a PS360, but now IGN is suggesting a 4850 which would put it 3-5x as powerful as a PS360. Not a HUGE difference (from what I've been reading), but more is better. Lets just hope they are off on the RAM and Nintendo goes 1.5GB minimum for total system memory.


edit:---------------------
Don't read IGN's conclusions of their test. They put an unoptimized PC against an optimized 360 and were slightly underwhelmed. In a closed box with a tweaked 4850, the difference will be MUCH greater, but even still, only to those that are really looking for more detail.

You're not even going to comment on the fact that IGN's sources indicated it would have an 80 GB hard drive?