Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[BeautifulShy]

A lot of the pessimism went away when many developers began talking about being pleased with the Wii U hardware. The only thing which has changed recently was the anonymous rumors that the system was weaker than the PS360. This ignited a fresh wave of pessimism that wasn't there a few weeks ago.

See, that is the part that people don't understand. That means any Joe Schmoe with an imagination and an internet connection can run his mouth without even a lick of evidence supporting his claims and pessimists are going eat it up. How does that even make any sense? How does some anonymous source invalidate months of good will and good news? That's what makes pessimism so exhausting to be around and why people (not even just the optimists) are like, "Uh, what just happened?"

If a complete stranger gave you a bowl of something and you don't know what it is or what's in it and they just insist that it's edible, would you eat that? I wouldn't and that's why I brushed off those reports. There's a mountain of evidence to the contrary. Then again, I suppose if you were hungry enough, you'd eat it so I understand the stance that we're starved for news and it's easy to grasp onto something that comes along even if it's unhealthy. I kind of wish some of the people who were praising Wii U weeks and months ago would step forward and say, "Yeah, I don't know what the hell that's about. All nonsense, don't listen to it."

You know you are right. In part the reason I haven't been in this thread much is because I have been focusing on my backlog of games and upcoming Wii games and quite frankly until the Wii U is a few months away I am not going to bother with it as far as rumors. I will try to look and differentiate between the news and the rumors but until there is a big reveal from Nintendo I am just going to enjoy this generation of games. It isn't over until the next console hits or the previous system stops being supported.

[Stogi]

If a complete stranger gave you a bowl of something and you don't know what it is or what's in it and they just insist that it's edible, would you eat that?

I would, but that's because I'm not a pessimist.

[Chozo Ghost]

Adrock, those anonymous rumors in and of themselves weren't a big deal and were easy to brush off. What made them most troubling was how Nintendo reacted to them. Instead of denying them, Nintendo seemed to get defensive about it and said "we care more about gameplay than technical specs". That's the thing which has raised some red flags.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Adrock, those anonymous rumors in and of themselves weren't a big deal and were easy to brush off. What made them most troubling was how Nintendo reacted to them. Instead of denying them, Nintendo seemed to get defensive about it and said "we care more about gameplay than technical specs". That's the thing which has raised some red flags.

Isn't that how they usually try to spin things? Nintendo, at least since the GC era (I don't even recall them bragging about the hardware of the GC) has emphasized gameplay over visuals even if the visuals are still apart of the package. Sometimes they come across as having more pride and focus over the true heart of a game, the gameplay, rather then visuals, always have.

Or the statement could have easily been more of a PR mistake. Either way there are lots of explanations other then them trying to cover up a severely underpowered system.

[Evan_B]

Nintendo's just on their own time-table. They don't care what other developers are doing, they'll take their sweet time in crafting whatever they want for release.

I am glad that they have acknowledged online gaming as a whole, though.

[NWR_insanolord]

Or the statement could have easily been more of a PR mistake.

I'm convinced that that is exactly what this is. If Nintendo had just said "Nintendo does not comment on rumors and speculation." like they always do I think they could have avoided a lot of this.

[Evan_B]

Or the statement could have easily been more of a PR mistake.

I'm convinced that that is exactly what this is. If Nintendo had just said "Nintendo does not comment on rumors and speculation." like they always do I think they could have avoided a lot of this.

Truth.

[Mannypon]

You can spin their respone any way you want I think.  If Nintendo were to say their system was beyond what the current gens are (which IMO is true) then people would've taken that statement and aimed for the stars with their expectations.  Nintendo would have never been able to live up to those expectations.  If Nintendo came out and were modest about their specs compared to the other gens, then the naysayers would've jumped all over that just as they are now.  I think if Nintendo is upset about anything, its not about specs but more so about having to reiterate their belief that gameplay trumps all.  A belief they have proved time and time again especially this last generation.  They released a significantly weak system and still managed to make compelling software, some more so than what you would find on the "high end" PS360.  The system with the weak specs managed to become the number 1 system this gen and one of the best selling systems of all time.  How many times does Nintendo have to tell people that specs don't mean anything in the end, the developers and their skills are what count.  That is what Nintendo is upset about if anything at all. 
 
All in all, I'll follow what I hear from our resident sleuths and the few reliable members at neogaf who know what they are talking about.  Based on what they are saying, the WiiU will not be a powerhouse of a system but it def will not be below a PS360.   In the end, that's good enough for me.  If Nintendo can produce games that look like the demos they showed off last year, the thing could have NES guts for all I care. 

[BlackNMild2k1]

If Nintendo can produce games that look like the demos they showed off last year, the thing could have NES guts for all I care. 

+1
Nintendium
En
Side

It's a magical substance capable of magical things.

[broodwars]

The Wii U's already a hard sell with me, as I found the Wii years just abysmal both in terms of 3rd party and 1st party software (outside a few select titles).  Nintendo seems to be targeting people like me who went multiplatform because of their bungling with the Wii, but so far they haven't demonstrated why I'd want to leave my PS3/360 for the Wii U.  It would probably be the final nail in the coffin with me if it turns out the Wii U is as powerful or less than the current Sony and Microsoft platforms.  At that point, I can play anything 3rd party I'd want to play on the consoles I already own with pretty much the same graphical fidelity and none of Nintendo's gimmicky B.S.  When Sony/Microsoft leapfrogged Nintendo again with their next platforms, the Wii years would just repeat themselves when it came to 3rd party support.  And as Nintendo's 1st party titles don't tend to appeal to me as much these days, I don't think I'd be losing much 1st party-wise.

The Wii U needs to be at least technologically on-par with where Sony and Microsoft are likely headed, or the 3rd parties will drop it again after a year or two.  I'll believe the stories about the Wii U's specs when Nintendo releases them themselves, but it's troubling that these rumors are starting to creep up now when Nintendo is very close to unveiling the finalized Wii U at E3.

[MagicCow64]

The Wii U's already a hard sell with me, as I found the Wii years just abysmal both in terms of 3rd party and 1st party software (outside a few select titles).  Nintendo seems to be targeting people like me who went multiplatform because of their bungling with the Wii, but so far they haven't demonstrated why I'd want to leave my PS3/360 for the Wii U.  It would probably be the final nail in the coffin with me if it turns out the Wii U is as powerful or less than the current Sony and Microsoft platforms.  At that point, I can play anything 3rd party I'd want to play on the consoles I already own with pretty much the same graphical fidelity and none of Nintendo's gimmicky B.S.  When Sony/Microsoft leapfrogged Nintendo again with their next platforms, the Wii years would just repeat themselves when it came to 3rd party support.  And as Nintendo's 1st party titles don't tend to appeal to me as much these days, I don't think I'd be losing much 1st party-wise.

The Wii U needs to be at least technologically on-par with where Sony and Microsoft are likely headed, or the 3rd parties will drop it again after a year or two.  I'll believe the stories about the Wii U's specs when Nintendo releases them themselves, but it's troubling that these rumors are starting to creep up now when Nintendo is very close to unveiling the finalized Wii U at E3.

That all may well turn out to be true, but I can't get worked up about it. If all of these rumors about PlayStation and Xbox next gen turn out to be true about constant internet and used game blocking and whathaveyou, combined with the integrity destroying DLC practices being embraced by all of the major 3rd party developers, then I will not be partaking of any other consoles. I think the Wii had the best games of the generation, in it's own weird ignored way, but I still bought an Xbox to catch up on "current gen" stuff. A lot of it has been entertaining in a transient way, but the major design and art direction aesthetics that have taken root in the PS3/Xbox era have been distressingly lame. Nintendo is the only outfit pushing a big segment of what video games are; even the awkward transition properties like Jak and Daxter have petered out for the most part, leaving nobody developing non-sports, non-GOW games for retail release. If the WiiU crashes and burns with the current hegemony, and Nintendo can support another console based on 80% their efforts alone, then so be it. It'll be better than the alternative.

I might fall into a weird category, though, in that I play through maybe 12 games a year on average, and I'd prefer 6 great Nintendo games over 18 Unreal Engine products. This market segment might explain why Nintendo still makes consoles. It's like a regional restaurant!

[Chozo Ghost]

Magic Cow brings up an excellent point. Even if the Wii U is no more powerful than the PS360, when you look at these rumors about the PS420 being download only, or requiring constant internet access, or locking out used games, and etc. then even if the Wii U is weak and a generation behind it would remain the last non-Orwellian console in existence, and that surely counts for something.

[Luigi Dude]

The Wii U needs to be at least technologically on-par with where Sony and Microsoft are likely headed, or the 3rd parties will drop it again after a year or two.  I'll believe the stories about the Wii U's specs when Nintendo releases them themselves, but it's troubling that these rumors are starting to creep up now when Nintendo is very close to unveiling the finalized Wii U at E3.

So a no name anonymous rumor has more credibility then actual named major developers that have praised the Wii U and it's hardware power?  So if I anonymously post a rumor saying Iwata has a doomsday device and plans on destoying the world on Friday, everyone in the world should start to panic because since it's an anonymous rumor, it must be true?

[broodwars]

Like the Wii U spec rumors, I think we have to take the PS4/Xbox Next rumors with a grain of salt.  I could see Sony or Microsoft deciding to attempt to lock out Used Games,  but I find it unlikely that both would make that same mistake, especially Sony given their severe financial woes of late. They really can't afford that sort of high-risk, grand-scale experiment right now.

If the rumors are true, it's also quite possible that they've been blown out of proportion a bit.  For instance, Used Games could merely have some sort of standardized fee to unlock the full content, not that much different really than the online pass system many companies are doing these days and gamers are begrudgingly used to by now.  I'll make my call on it when I have more information.

Unfortunately, we probably won't know the truth of the Sony/Microsoft rumors till the end of this year or early next year, if those two are telling the truth about not revealing any next-gen system details at E3.  We'll know the truth of the Wii U rumors in a couple of months.

[broodwars]

The Wii U needs to be at least technologically on-par with where Sony and Microsoft are likely headed, or the 3rd parties will drop it again after a year or two.  I'll believe the stories about the Wii U's specs when Nintendo releases them themselves, but it's troubling that these rumors are starting to creep up now when Nintendo is very close to unveiling the finalized Wii U at E3.

So a no name anonymous rumor has more credibility then actual named major developers that have praised the Wii U and it's hardware power?

I take my rumors with a grain of salt, just as I do Sunny statements from developers trying to con people into buying launch-day software.  Nintendo is no stranger to developers sipping the Kool-Aid for a while in public statements which eventually come to nothing.  Just ask Dennis Dyack.  Nintendo's been awfully reticent to reveal details on the Wii U for a console where being more powerful than the current HD consoles would be a major selling point.

For the moment, I believe the truth is somewhere in-between "it's slightly more powerful than the existing HD consoles" and "it's less powerful than the existing HD consoles."  i.e. "it's about as powerful as the existing HD consoles."  It fits Nintendo's track record, and given the complaining I've seen from some developers over not wanting another hardware generation it's quite possible that Nintendo would try to give them what they want with more of this hardware generation in the Wii U.  It's basically what they thought they were doing with the Wii, only they forgot that developers largely sat out on the GameCube as well.

[ejamer]

The Wii U needs to be at least technologically on-par with where Sony and Microsoft are likely headed, or the 3rd parties will drop it again after a year or two.  I'll believe the stories about the Wii U's specs when Nintendo releases them themselves, but it's troubling that these rumors are starting to creep up now when Nintendo is very close to unveiling the finalized Wii U at E3.

Troubling?  Maybe.  Suspicious?  The conspiracy lover in me definitely thinks so.  Unconfirmed rumors based on speculation from unnamed devs just as Nintendo starts their Wii U marketing push?  Tell me that Sony and MS don't love it, assuming they aren't behind it from the get go.

Anyway, I don't think that Wii U needs to be on par with the future MS/Sony consoles at all, or that being limited to a modest upgrade in processing power (to PS3/360 levels) would hurt their sales viability any more than it hurt Wii.  It would be frustrating for some gamers... but most people who really care will probably end up owning multiple consoles anyway, just like what happened this generation.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Nintendo's been awfully reticent to reveal details on the Wii U for a console where being more powerful than the current HD consoles would be a major selling point.

I think to get into a spec match would only open the door to unfavorable comparisons.

"Oh Nintendo only has 1GB of RAM.... PS4 has 4X THE AMOUNT OF RAM!!!"
"Wii U can push 100million pixels.... Xbox1080 can push 1 BILLION PIXELS!!!"

fanboys: PS1080 is 4X-10X more powerful than Wii U!!

I think it's best for Nintendo to stay out of the tech comparison game and just let the systems features and games speak for themselves. And I say this fully wanting to know what in the machine but also knowing that if games can deliver, then the specifics of the tech in the box don't really matter all that much.

[Louieturkey]

I liked what I read on Tom's Hardware's comments when they posted the rumors about the WiiU being less powerful than the PS360 systems.  Many people laughed at that stating that the rumored hardware for the WiiU that everyone was touting only a couple months ago was based on the 7 series IBM processors, which are three or four generations newer than the 360's processor. And the GPU is based on the R700 chips, which are 3-4 generations newer than either PS3 (a 7900GeForce card or something close) or the 360 (I don't remember which one it has).  So there's no possible way the WiiU is less powerful than current systems based on the rumored hardware that has been discovered.

[Evan_B]

Also, I dunno... I think having a console on-par with Microsoft and Sony's current gen for 300 bucks isn't really that bad of an investment. It's still gonna have good online, and the games will be pretty- and it won't be as much of a price commitment as the other two current gen consoles- the 360 less so. And it will just have good, solid games made by Nintendo, and hopefully good third party stuff too.

Whether we like it or not, everyone has to admit that Nintendo makes a specific type of gaming experience- they make damn good games that are about high quality and imagination. That's the truth.That's why I buy them. That's why I continue to buy them, and that's why I enjoyed the Wii so much- they committed and worked with an idea, and they exploited it to the max. They sold that console on that idea. But really, games like Mario, Zelda, Monster Hunter, Xenoblade, and Dragon Quest, even- they simply work better on a Nintendo console because that's where developers get to let imagination, color, and vivacity come to life. (Mind you, some games are dark and gritty on Nintendo consoles, but they too are unique, like Madworld and No More Heroes).

I believe that the Wii U is going to drive a very different concept into people- I think the Wii U's gimmick is really going to be the internet. How Nintendo deals with DLC and virtual purchases and implementing this crazy internet into our gaming experience. The tablet kind of enforces that, because it's a tool for both playing and communicating your commands in ways that you can't with just face buttons and analog sticks. I mean, for more traditional games I think it will be more of a single-player gameplay enhancer, like being a world map or a use as a place to control your character's actions (but for HD level graphics). But loading out, issuing commands, and communicating with other players is going to be perfect for this system, and that's why I think we've heard rumors of MMO's on this console. I think it will just work for hotkeying and commune like in World of Warcraft, and I think it could greatly enhance games like Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles (in its more traditional GC-esque form), Monster Hunter, and even Pokemon. Because players don't really play in the same room anymore- I think Nintendo's beginning to realize that- but I think that they'll continue to use Wiimotes for local co-op, still. I think the tablet will be used in congruence with Wiimotes for local play, actually, as we've seen with games like Find Mii, etc.

But the additional abilities of being a NFC, app download (specifically ebooks and board games, smart move), and some independent functions for the controller also make it widely appealing to households as a family device. I think that's how the Wii U may be an attempt to satiate both the casual and hardcore.

In other words, I think that the Wii U has plenty going for it, in concept. A lot of game developers are going to want to work on the system for what it can do for gaming- even more will if the device proves more powerful than current gen offerings, but even if that's not true, it will still have developers. Because without the Wii, a lot of cool games wouldn't have seen the light of day- and that will be the same with this console.

And Nintendo will keep standards high with their own titles. I think that's the fantastic thing about Nintendo, really- they partly maintain a high quality for their system with their own releases and show people how good it can really be. That's why I think Pikmin 3 might come out later than launch to make way for a Nintendo title that really showcases the Wii U's possibility... OR it will do so itself, if it can. Which it could.

So... I guess what I'm saying is... uh... Nintendo's cool? That, and "relax, everybody". I think we're forgetting that nothing about the actual content and fantastic experience is going to change with this new console- and nothing's going to change with the developers we see jumping on board with the system- be they new or old, they will exist. They will continue to create games that work on Nintendo consoles- games like Mutant Mudds and Mighty Switch Force and Xenoblade Chronicles and Ivy the Kiwi and Zelda and Mario.  I mean, it takes some thinking, but when you really take Nintendo's words to heart- "it's all about the play experience," you have to think back at how they choose what they think they can work with the best. We all know how Nintendo made the Wii a successful device- motion control and casual appeal. But when you think of why the Gamecube was swell, it was because Nintedo loved working with the improved graphics- and they expanded on such ideas as having a handheld device like the GBA attach and enhance. The N64 was all about taking games into 3D and implementing all those different controller options- rumble packs, memory, gameboy cartridges. So I think we're just seeing a system that catches itself up with what's out there currently and will show us how Nintendo quality and innovation apply to what they've created- a controller that's going to be a great home device for the family as well as an asset to online gaming and control methods.

That blog post practically wrote itself.

[BeautifulShy]

This can't be right. Am I on the right forum? 3 positive posts in a row!

In all seriousness. BlackNMild you do make great points it is the games that sell the systems. It always has and always will. A great game is timeless no matter the system or hardware specs.

@LouieTurkey Yep that is what I was talking about earlier doing your research and finding about the rumors and dispelling them with truth. Nice job.

@Even_B You talk about internet's in that post well you deserve 10,000 internet's for that post.

 

[broodwars]

In all seriousness. BlackNMild you do make great points it is the games that sell the systems. It always has and always will. A great game is timeless no matter the system or hardware specs.

In all seriousness, tell that to Nintendo.  They've hyped their last two systems focusing solely on their respective gimmicks: the Wiimote's motion control for the Wii and "3D without the glasses" for the 3DS, and IMO at least in the Wii's case I've found their software for the platform rather lacking.  That's something that troubles me with the Wii U as well: once again, Nintendo has focused on the gimmick of the tablet controller rather than their content.  As the saying goes, "content is king" but Nintendo seems more interested in talking about the interface than their content.  After all, once you start focusing on the content, some of Nintendo's more glacially-evolving franchises start to show their age.  That was the big failure of the Wii U's last E3 appearance, so hopefully Nintendo is ready to rectify that this E3 by showing that they have great games coming for the Wii U (rather than "games with an interesting control method").

A great game is a great game, regardless of platform; genre; or interface device.  If Nintendo wants me to buy into the Wii U, they need to start by showing that their content is worth buying the device for, not the idea of playing games with a tablet controller.  I can already play great games on other consoles without a tablet controller.

[BeautifulShy]

In all seriousness. BlackNMild you do make great points it is the games that sell the systems. It always has and always will. A great game is timeless no matter the system or hardware specs.

In all seriousness, tell that to Nintendo.  They've hyped their last two systems focusing solely on their respective gimmicks: the Wiimote's motion control for the Wii and "3D without the glasses" for the 3DS, and IMO at least in the Wii's case I've found their software for the platform rather lacking.  That's something that troubles me with the Wii U as well: once again, Nintendo has focused on the gimmick of the tablet controller rather than their content.  As the saying goes, "content is king" but Nintendo seems more interested in talking about the interface than their content.  After all, once you start focusing on the content, some of Nintendo's more glacially-evolving franchises start to show their age.  That was the big failure of the Wii U's last E3 appearance, so hopefully Nintendo is ready to rectify that this E3 by showing that they have great games coming for the Wii U (rather than "games with an interesting control method").

A great game is a great game, regardless of platform; genre; or interface device.  If Nintendo wants me to buy into the Wii U, they need to start by showing that their content is worth buying the device for, not the idea of playing games with a tablet controller.  I can already play great games on other consoles without a tablet controller.

I don't have a direct line to Iwata so I can't tell that to him. It isn't the "gimmicks" make the system it is the whole experence.The audio,visual, controls, gameplay,characters, and the memories and community and the "gimmicks" that make the system. They are all important pieces. The Wii had a whole lot of that. I can't speak for the 3DS yet but from what I have seen of gameplay and videos it is pretty impressive. 

I don't know about you but I have a lot of Wii games that I still need to buy and a lot of Wii games that I need to go through in my backlog. Some people only buy one game a month and some buy many a week. Personal taste is personal taste.

If you are so worried about the future of the Wii U then just take a wait and see approach because there is really no harm in that. Also if you don't think that any games from Nintendo will appeal to you then there is no harm in waiting on the sidelines and not getting a Wii U until you happen to see something that you see that grabs you and want to grab a Wii U.

[GoldenPhoenix]

3DS, despite what they may have focused on in the beginning is doing quite well for itself with a bunch of A+++ games with even more in the wing. The Wii U is still probably 6 months or more from release, and it is unfair to judge them focusing on the tablet back almost a year ago! Like it or not, the tablet is a positive selling point for the Wii U, and so early on in a console's unveiling, there is absolutely nothing wrong with pushing that feature, especially since the big games were likely not ready to be shown.

Every console in history has some feature they tout, including Sony and MS who love touting all the multimedia features a system can do. I fail to see how that is much different from Nintendo showing off something that will actually impact how games are played on their system. In fact, I'd argue it is more relevant. The primary difference is that Nintendo is usually not willing to show trailers for games that aren't ready to show, unlike Sony and MS who do enjoy their CGI teaser trailers. There is nothing wrong with what Sony and MS do, but on the flip side there is nothing wrong with what Nintendo's philosophy has ALWAYS been as well.

Whine and complain all one wants about Nintendo showing off a new controller, but at least their focus has always been on the heart of a gaming system, which is gaming which is the focus of any new input method, even if it may be flawed. Nintendo does their own thing and doesn't get caught up in the modern day leap frog of showing games long before they are ready to be shown, by videos that may be not representative of the final product.

Also we are getting heavily into the laws of diminishing returns this generation. The focus is likely going to shift to things other then the game visuals, such physics and AI. And even that is going to run into a cap because of this thing called financial resources and development costs. As someone who plays PC games, my old Radeon 4870 X2 card still manages to keep up quite well with most newer games, including games made exclusively for PC, on high settings as well. For the first time ever I have been in no rush to upgrade any of my components in my desktop. The only reason why I'll likely have to upgrade the graphics card is because mine is showing signs of dieing completely.

Not to say there aren't still places where gaming "power" can take things, but that wall appears closer now, then it ever has been before, especially due to the limits of even HD televisions. I think this last generation will be one of the first where games hardly look "ugly" in comparison to next generation games.


Whatever happens this next generation should be more interesting then others to see what truly separates the gaming consoles when it comes to the games themselves in the visuals/physics/AI/etc department. I don't think any of us really know what will happen, especially when you consider that development costs are already putting major strain on developers, and with game sales lagging overall, it may really impact this next generation.

[Padawan of Windu]

I was sad to read the quote yesterday that Suda51 doesn't have a Wii U dev kit yet.  When he said he would make No More Heroes 3 for the next nintendo console, I was so excited.  Hopefully he gets on it after Lollipop Chainsaw (or a new Killer7, dear god a new Killer7 please.)  I was lucky enough to meet him Saturday at PAX East!  He was just standing around and I got to talk to him for a bit.  He didn't understand all of it (one of his translators came over halfway through our conversation), but was impressed when I told him I made it all the way through Flower, Sun, and Rain on DS.  He had a Whaaaaa?? expression on his face, haha.  I asked him to make Killer7 2, and tried to get him to say Coyote Smith's quote "You're F*cked!" (Can we swear on here?) but he was just like "Yup, yup, Killer7, thanks for being a fan!"  I got a picture with him, too - (I've never met a game developer before and was kind of starstruck, haha.)

[Adrock]

Suda51's next project is Killer Is Dead on PS3/360, no relation to Killer 7. I wouldn't be surprised to see ports of Lollipop Chainsaw and Killer Is Dead. They should hold No More Heroes fans over until a sequel is made.