Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[TJ Spyke]

To be fair, Nintendo really broke the model on profiting from hardware. Even before the NES came out, it used to be standard for console manufacturers to sell the hardware at a loss and make it up on software (a model that pre-dated video games as they took it from razor companies selling razors for little or no profit and charging a lot for the blades). Nintendo always bucked the trend by profiting on hardware too.

[BeautifulShy]

That isn't true TJ. It was only when Sony came around when that model came about.

[UncleBob]

Game Informer magazine wrote in an issue a few months ago that the Wii is "irrelevant".

Wait... aren't you the one who trashes GameStop to no ends?

But you take the word of their marketing catalog as gospel?

[Chozo Ghost]

Actually, I think Nintendo having the most conservative hardware is the smart move and I'm fine with that. Using conservative hardware allows them to keep the MSRP lower than the competition, which means better sales. The older but more stable and proven hardware also means a more stable and reliable system, unlike the PS360 with their red rings an yellow lights of death.

But the problem was the Wii went too far with that conservative mentality. If the difference between the Wii and the PS360 was like the difference between the Dreamcast and PS2/GC/Xbox then it wouldn't have been a big deal, but the gap was much bigger than that. The Wii is literally a full blown generation behind. That's why developers didn't want to support it, because it being so far behind meant porting games over to it wasn't a simple task. It would take a major undertaking to make a Wii version of a PS360 game, and that's why for the most part they just didn't bother.

So just like how the Dreamcast was the first 6th generation console, so too should the Wii U be the first 8th generation console. Being a true 8th generation console is the key, though. It can't just be a 7th generation console with a gimmicky controller slapped on. That's not going to fly with developers in the long run. If Nintendo does that, the developer support may be there at first, but a few years later it will be like the Wii all over again.

Nintendo has to keep in mind that no matter how innovative the Wii U tablet controller may be, the competition is probably going to rip it off. I think the turning point this generation was around the same time Sony and Microsoft unveiled their rip off versions of motion controls. From that point on the one exclusive advantage the Wii had going for it was gone. So Nintendo should be operating under the assumption that their uMote or uTab idea isn't going to stay exclusive forever either. They can't rely on the gimmick alone, so the hardware needs to be able to hold its own.

[Spak-Spang]

MopitUp:  You are completely right.  I hate when everyone hates on Nintendo for running their company like a business, and trying to stay in business to create the games we love.  Now, sometimes those same business decisions are BAD DECISIONS, and I think people can discuss those decisions and should.  But to blindly attack without thinking about business decisions and the effects on everyone in the company and shareholders, and yes the fans is ignorant.

Now, I do think Sony and Microsoft are playing a dangerous strategy in this business.  They are both basically attacking each other full force without worry of collateral damage to themselves, their competition or even 3rd party developers.  What they hope to do is out last the other companies bleeding to death, and hopefully pick up the spoils afterwards.  Nintendo is kinda caught in the middle of this dangerous game...and they aren't losing profit much yet, but they are losing image and position in the gaming community.  If some how Nintendo was too lose market share to see making the hardware wasn't profitable anymore, THEN it would be a huge boon to both Sony and Microsoft...which is (I think) their ultimate goal with these systems that create massive loses...which they can allow other departments to eat. 

The real danger of this strategy is newcomers.  There are always other companies willing to step into an industry...specially a billion dollar industry and take a risk to becoming popular.  Both Sony and Microsoft were once newcomers and became market mainstays.  If Sony and Microsoft are bleeding to death and someone like Apple or Valve comes in with an intriguing product for the consumers...it means more fights, they may not be able to maintain. 

Nintendo's strategy, means they may lose market share and image, however as long as they continue to make a profit, they will be able maintain in the industry, learn and adapt.  And just like the Wii has shown, all it takes is one good innovative idea to connect to the consumer for Nintendo to jump ahead again...having two at the same time, Wii and DS is just icing on the cake.  If Nintendo can do this one more time with the 3DS and Wii U...next generation Nintendo will be in much better shape to really wow us...and compete with competitors that are even weaker. 

I mean look at what the rumors are for the Xbox720 and PS4...they are not as large of jumps as the 360 and PS3...and they may have really annoying design choices to help mediate the loses of the new generation and this generation.   

[GoldenPhoenix]

My only hope is that, like Chozo said, that Nintendo isn't too conservative this next generation. I honestly don't expect the system to be leaps and bounds better then PS3 or 360, but I do expect it to be more powerful even if it is by a slim margin. Honestly I don't expect ports to be significantly affected even if Wii U is just a small percentage more powerful then 360 and PS3. The industry is starting to hit a wall, not just with significant visual jumps but, more importantly, the cost of game development.


You will not see the difference you seen between PS3/360 and Wii, no matter how powerful (or underpowered) the Wii U is.

[Luigi Dude]

So just like how the Dreamcast was the first 6th generation console, so too should the Wii U be the first 8th generation console. Being a true 8th generation console is the key, though. It can't just be a 7th generation console with a gimmicky controller slapped on. That's not going to fly with developers in the long run. If Nintendo does that, the developer support may be there at first, but a few years later it will be like the Wii all over again.

The thing is it's very doubtful Microsoft and Sony will make their next systems as powerful as the 360/PS3 were for their time.  After seeing how successful Nintendo was which was nothing more then a modified Gamecube, Microsoft and Sony realize that going the more powerful route isn't all that important in succeeding.  Plus there's the fact Microsoft shareholder have made it clear the gaming division needs to be more profitable because they're not happy with all the billions lost with the original Xbox and the 360 in its early years.  Sony might try to go more power since the Vita shows they're still run by idiots, but if the PS4 is the only hugely powerful system it won't do sh!t since third parties will just focus on the Wii U and 720 and ignore the PS4 added power.

[Shaymin]

The 360/PS3 were the worst possible thing to happen to your mid-range developers, mid-range being "anyone outside of Activision/Ubi/EA". Another generation like that, and I'm going handheld-only.

[tendoboy1984]

Actually, I think Nintendo having the most conservative hardware is the smart move and I'm fine with that. Using conservative hardware allows them to keep the MSRP lower than the competition, which means better sales.

I remember when Sony was doing that with the PS1 and PS2. Then they suddenly threw everything into the PS3.

[Evan_B]

I really don't think we're going to be seeing much of a graphical leap like there was from GC/xBox/PS2 to 360/PS3. It's just not going to happen. If it does, then game developers are going to have one hell of a time dealing with that.

[Kytim89]

I really don't think we're going to be seeing much of a graphical leap like there was from GC/xBox/PS2 to 360/PS3. It's just not going to happen. If it does, then game developers are going to have one hell of a time dealing with that.

Graphical leaps are going to be increasingly confined to handheld systems. Where home consoles will grow the most is services such as online and stores that feature online retail.

[Evan_B]

Then I don't care what the Wii U can do. As long as it gives me pretty graphics. I mean, nice online would be nice, but other than that... I'm not picky.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I know everyone is super curious about the Wii U OS, and some of you may be aware that Ideaman had previously said that "according to his sources" the OS was currently using about 512MB of RAM that is unaccessible to devs in the dev kit.

He just told me that this is what it's supposedly used for
"multi-tasking, os, background, applications, the possibility to put your game on standby, store your progression, switch to other software, then switch back to when you stopped."

How happy would you be if Nintendo really took the OS seriously this time around and greatly improved upon what they've already started on the 3DS? Being able to jump from one app to the next without necessarily having to lose your place, and then being able to jump right back into where you left off would be great.

[Adrock]

You get to do that with the 3DS to a certain degree so I expect that to carry over to Wii U. I'm sure Nintendo has thought of ways to make it more sophisticated. Pausing the software to open the browser is one thing but what if I could keep playing the game and open the browser on the tablet would open up more possibilities.

[Ceric]

I would also hope the OS being doing the social components as well.

[Chozo Ghost]

The thing is it's very doubtful Microsoft and Sony will make their next systems as powerful as the 360/PS3 were for their time.

Well, due to the graphical wall and the law of diminishing returns even if they did make their systems as much of a leap forward it wouldn't be very noticeable. That doesn't mean the leap won't be made, its just that from a graphics perspective it won't be very noticeable. There is still a lot of room for improvement in terms of the A.I. and things like that, though.

I think the reason why Sony and Microsoft pushed so hard for such a drastic leap forward this generation is the result of a technological arms race between these two electronics giants. In generations past video game systems were made by companies such as Sega, Nintendo, and Atari who only did video games and nothing else. But then in 1995 the TV and Walkman giant known as Sony entered the race, but it wasn't such a big deal until another giant named Microsoft showed up. Now these two behemoths are duking it out in a sort of video game Cold War like between the Soviet Union and United States. Just like the real Cold War eventually one of these two is going to lose. I think its just a matter of time. But until that happens I think this video game arms race is going to continue.

Making money isn't really the goal of either Microsoft or Sony in this case. The only reason they are in this race at all is for dominance over everyone's living room. Video games have always been an after thought to them, which is also why they put such an emphasis on things like Blu-ray and HD-DVD in their consoles. Video gaming is only one aspect of it. They want to control all media in your living room.

Their goals are very different than the goals of Nintendo who won't even offer DVD playback on the Wii. Nintendo's focus is 100% video gaming, but in Sony and Microsoft's case video gaming is probably only 25% of the focus. Since they have such differing goals that's also why they have such different design philosophies.

[Kytim89]

Could Hitman: Absolution be coming to the Wii U? Afterall, it is being published by Square-Enix, so it could happen.
 
http://wiiudaily.com/2011/06/hitman-absolution-coming-to-wii-u/
 

 
According to a tip WiiUDaily obtained from source close to publisher Square Enix, the parent company of Hitman developer IO Interactive, they’re looking into bringing several of their properties to the Wii U, either as launch titles or as releases down the line. One of those titles is supposedly Hitman Absolution, which would use the new Wii U controller to display additional mission information, use the accelerometer during melee combat, and more. So far Hitman Absolution has only been confirmed for the PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, and will be released sometime in 2012.

[Oblivion]

The thing is it's very doubtful Microsoft and Sony will make their next systems as powerful as the 360/PS3 were for their time.

Well, due to the graphical wall and the law of diminishing returns even if they did make their systems as much of a leap forward it wouldn't be very noticeable. That doesn't mean the leap won't be made, its just that from a graphics perspective it won't be very noticeable. There is still a lot of room for improvement in terms of the A.I. and things like that, though.

I think the reason why Sony and Microsoft pushed so hard for such a drastic leap forward this generation is the result of a technological arms race between these two electronics giants. In generations past video game systems were made by companies such as Sega, Nintendo, and Atari who only did video games and nothing else. But then in 1995 the TV and Walkman giant known as Sony entered the race, but it wasn't such a big deal until another giant named Microsoft showed up. Now these two behemoths are duking it out in a sort of video game Cold War like between the Soviet Union and United States. Just like the real Cold War eventually one of these two is going to lose. I think its just a matter of time. But until that happens I think this video game arms race is going to continue.

Making money isn't really the goal of either Microsoft or Sony in this case. The only reason they are in this race at all is for dominance over everyone's living room. Video games have always been an after thought to them, which is also why they put such an emphasis on things like Blu-ray and HD-DVD in their consoles. Video gaming is only one aspect of it. They want to control all media in your living room.

Their goals are very different than the goals of Nintendo who won't even offer DVD playback on the Wii. Nintendo's focus is 100% video gaming, but in Sony and Microsoft's case video gaming is probably only 25% of the focus. Since they have such differing goals that's also why they have such different design philosophies.

Actually, I'd say that Sony's video game focus is 50% aand Microsoft's is 25%, considering the Xbox brand is having some sort of identity crisis.

[Mop it up]

Here's the thing: Nintendo had to be conservative with the Wii, or else it would have been very risky. They knew the possibility of people buying a Wii solely for Wii Sports and buying little else, and if they took a loss on the hardware, these people do nothing but cost Nintendo money. The low price point was one of the keys to Nintendo's success, so raising the price if the specs were higher wasn't an option. The way I see it, Nintendo had two choices: make the Wii, or stop making home systems. My question for the room is, is it better to have had the Wii, or have had no Nintendo consoles?

Things are much different now. Nintendo just had their most successful console generation ever, and the Wii will probably end up becoming the second-best selling home system (which is currently the PlaySation at 102 million, I believe). Coming off of that, it's a lot easier, and a lot less is at risk, for Nintendo to create a more capable home console, both in specs and in features. Somewhat vague quotes from anonymous sources should in no way invalidate everything else we've seen and heard from E3 2011 and named sources since.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Nintendo working on a GT/Forza of their own?
http://www.dualpixels.com/profiles/blogs/rumor-nintendo-s-answer-to-gran-turismo-and-forza-in-development-?utm_source=dlvr.it

Nintendo is working on their killer app simulation racer for Wii U that is designed to put GT and Forza on their heels.

Their newest project, which our source (who has insight of Nintendo developments) refers to as "Concept Grand Prix", is in development by Lucid Games made up of ex-Developers of Bizarre Creations (Fur Fighters, Project Gotham Racing, Blur).

Concept Grand Prix is expected to provide extremely realistic physics, with controls and gameplay similar to Project Gotham.

There are more details at the link if you're interested. I'm not, as I prefer my racing to be a little more on the arcadey side than the straight up real-life simulator side of things.

GoNintendo apparently has something to add to this rumor
http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=175200

[Mannypon]

EDIT:  I deleted my previous post as it I thought I was in the WiiU thread lol.
As for the discussion here, I don't see why everyone is so scared Nintendo will gimp the hardware again.  Just because they did it with the Wii doesn't mean we have to throw out their whole history out the window.  Every system Nintendo has released outside of the Wii has been able to hold its own against the competition.  Based on what I've read and seen online, I ,in no way, believe these "anonymous" developers who are bad mouthing the WiiU. 
Ignoring everything positive that has already been said by big name people in the industry, ignoring all the rumors coming from our resident sleuth BnM and CaterK and the posters at Neogaf who are actually legit, and ignoring all the video we have seen from the previous E3; there is no way the WiiU can be weaker than the current gen systems when its streaming the same, if not better, graphics to the TV and the Upad at the same time.  It just doesn't make sense.

[Adrock]

Here's the thing: Nintendo had to be conservative with the Wii, or else it would have been very risky. They knew the possibility of people buying a Wii solely for Wii Sports and buying little else, and if they took a loss on the hardware, these people do nothing but cost Nintendo money. The low price point was one of the keys to Nintendo's success, so raising the price if the specs were higher wasn't an option. The way I see it, Nintendo had two choices: make the Wii, or stop making home systems. My question for the room is, is it better to have had the Wii, or have had no Nintendo consoles?

Nintendo made the Wii needlessly riskier by making motion controls the only viable option on the console which they've thankfully backed off from. They wanted to replace traditional controls but motion controls works much better along side it. In terms of hardware, I don't think Nintendo had to lowball the specs quite so much. I'll always wonder if it was possible for them to have positioned themselves somewhere between where the Wii and PS3 so perhaps 3rd parties could scale down the games rather than make an entire separate version.

[Mop it up]

I disagree about the motion controls thing, especially since the Nunchuk and Classic Controller exist, but that's neither here nor there. I do agree the Wii could have had slightly higher specs without breaking the bank, however I don't think it could have been close enough to the PS360 to make a difference to third-parties. We just would have seen slightly better results from exclusive games, like Mario Kart Wii wouldn't have blocky characters, for example.

[Adrock]

I disagree about the motion controls thing, especially since the Nunchuk and Classic Controller exist, but that's neither here nor there.

Well, no, that's a whole point. Some developers just flat out don't want to finagle with motion controls and the Classic Controller cost extra. It didn't come with the Wii. That made supporting it less desirable.

[Spak-Spang]

All I want is an os experience similar to that of the ios with the ipad.  I think that is quite an amazing system...it is natural and easy to go back into other apps...then jump back into your game.  Nintendo has been working (even with the Wii) of creating an experience that is easy to jump in and out of games. 

I am not worried about the ios in those terms.  However, Nintendo and an ios that fully integrates the internet is something different.  Personally, I would love for the ios to be able to turn on/off the wifi connection easily and when it is on, everything just works in the background.  Friend update, chat/message system, updates and downloads...ect...  I like the Xbox Live experience and if Nintendo has to charge $50.00 a year for fully integrated web service, I say go for it...I would rather that than what we have now.